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The J-20, the first combat training over the sea (2018-05-09)
Starts at 2:39.
Last edited:
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The J-20, the first combat training over the sea (2018-05-09)
Starts at 2:39.
Where did you find the article? Can you provide us a link?
Please do, @Gomig-21. It really sounds a cut above the usual cr*p that gets posted in places like The Diplomat and The National Interest.
Could you link this interview. Thanks.
Anyone who thinks that the USAF is ignorant towards PLAAF capabilities is sorely misinformed. Let me remind them that the Air Force Chief of Staff and Lockheed Martin are not comprised of online amateur journalists or the so called “Western experts”. The National Interest or Business Insider does not represent DoD’s view of the PLAAF! Just because a stupid analyst derides the J-20’s stealth features does not mean it is indicative of the USAF.
Sorry, guys. I looked all over the place for it and couldn't find it. I get bombarded with news clips from my ISP and if I don't save it, it's almost impossible to backtrack and find it unless I save it as new ones flood and bury the old ones.
That's why it caught my attention and what's interesting is that it's eerily similar to that Business Insider article, except that was through a scientific think-tank who was saying similar things, but he wasn't half as complementary or detailed. You don't usually hear anyone from the US military -- in any capacity -- say things like that unless they're trying to lobby congress for funds by purposely complementing the opponent and showing them as a viable threat that needs to be addressed with more funds for R&D.
Here's the Business Insider article.
Close-up photos of Russia's new 'stealth' jet reveal its true purpose — and it's a big threat to the US
Alex Lockie
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/close-up-photos-of-russias-new-stealth-jet-reveal-its-true-purpose-—-and-its-a-big-threat-to-the-us/ar-AAx1Le2?ocid=ientp
Business Insider Su-57 Moscow Victory Day parade 2018
Russia's "fifth-generation," "combat-tested," "stealth" fighter jet has a lot of dubious claims made about it, but recent close-up photography of the plane from Russia's Victory Day parade on May 9 reveals it's just not a stealth jet.
Russia has tried to sell the plane as a stealth jet to India, but India recently backed out of the program. Considering a shrinking economy and defense spending, it's unclear now if Russia will ever produce the Su-57 in reasonable quantities.
Business Insider asked a senior scientist working on stealth aircraft how to evaluate the plane's stealth, and the results were not good.
The scientist, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of stealth work, pointed out six major problems from the pictures.
First, take a look at the seams between the flaps on the aircraft — they're big. For reference, look at the US's F-22, the stealthiest fighter jet on earth:
The flaps at the end of the wing have very tight seams, which don't scatter radar waves, thereby maintaining a low profile.
Secondly, look at the Su-57's vertical rear tails. They have a wide gap where they stray from the fuselage. Keeping a tight profile is essential to stealth, according to the scientist.
Look at the F-35's rear tails for reference — they touch the whole way.
Third, look at the nose of the Su-57 — it has noticeable seams around the canopy, which kills stealth. The F-35 and F-22 share a smooth, sloped look.
It's likely Russia doesn't have the machining technology to produce such a surface. The actual nose of the Su-57 looks bolted on with noticeable rivets.
Finally, take a look at the underside of the Su-57 — it has rivets and sharp edges everywhere. "If nothing else convinces that no effort at [stealth] was attempted, this is the clincher," said the scientist.
Russia didn't even try at stealth, but that's not their purpose
As the scientist pointed out, Russia didn't even appear to seriously try to make a stealth aircraft. The Su-57 takes certain measures, like storing weapons internally, that improve the stealth, but it's leaps and bounds from a US or even Chinese effort.
This highlights the true purpose of Russia's new fighter — not to evade radar itself, but to kill US stealth jets like the F-35 and F-22.
The Su-57 will feature side mounted radars along its nose, an infrared search and track radar up front, and additional radars in front and back, as well as on the wings.
As The Drive's Tyler Rogoway points out, the side-mounted radars on the Su-57 allow it to excel at a tactic called "beaming" that can trick the radars on US stealth jets. Beaming entails flying perpendicular to a fighter's radar in a way that makes the fighter dismiss the signature of the jet as a non-target.
Any fighter can "beam" by flying sideways, but the Su-57, with sideways-mounted radars, can actually guide missiles and score kills from that direction.
Russia has long taken a different approach to fighter aircraft than the US, but the Su-57 shows that even without the fancy precision-machined stealth of an F-22, Moscow's jets can remain dangerous and relevant.
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One thing I will point out is that it is a bit unfair what this guy said about the V-stabs on the Su-57. He compares the all-movable surfaces to permanently molded and attached V-stabs with rudders. If you have a fully moving V-stab, it won't be seamless like a fixed one with a separate rudder.
There's another piece of literature (I'll be damned if I can find that one either) that mentions how the J-20's cockpit & avionics is probably just as good as the F-22s.
I really don't think so. I don't think the quality American intelligence (public or classified) is far above the level of David Axe, Kyle Mizokami, or Alex Lockie. There was a great discussion over on SDF recently about how Robert Gates was completely blindsided by the emergence of the J-20 - if American intelligence knew better than it did (does), the US would never have cancelled the F-22.Anyone who thinks that the USAF is ignorant towards PLAAF capabilities is sorely misinformed.
They're not as good, they're far better than the F-22's. The F-22's cockpit and avionics belong in a museum of technology.There's another piece of literature (I'll be damned if I can find that one either) that mentions how the J-20's cockpit & avionics is probably just as good as the F-22s.
The arrogance make their eyes blind.I really don't think so. I don't think the quality American intelligence (public or classified) is far above the level of David Axe, Kyle Mizokami, or Alex Lockie. There was a great discussion over on SDF recently about how Robert Gates was completely blindsided by the emergence of the J-20 - if American intelligence knew better than it did (does), the US would never have cancelled the F-22.
They're not as good, they're far better than the F-22's. The F-22's cockpit and avionics belong in a museum of technology.
For real. I've yet to see footage of any J aircraft carrying, let alone dropping a PGM. Plenty of rockets though...You can't officially induct an aircraft into the PLAAF unless it has fired dumb rockets.
Better than Russian Su-57/PAKFA that never open their weapon bay.For real. I've yet to see footage of any J aircraft carrying, let alone dropping a PGM. Plenty of rockets though...
Of course the J-20's avionics and sensor suite is much better than that of the F-22. One was designed in the late 80s while the other just entered service. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say that the J-20 sensor suite is a equal to that of the F-35 ... both of which are superior to the Su-57 in this regard. If you read Dr. Karlo Kopp's RCS study and other statements by academics, you'll find that the J-20 stealth shaping was heavily influenced by that of the F-22. And yes, we do not that the Su-57 is not a VLO fighter ... nothing out of the ordinary. As for the Russians, I do not know what they were thinking ... they are still stuck in the age of dog-fighting it seems with emphasis on subsonic maneuverability. The Su-57 may be pretty at an air show but not so much in an actual fight ...Sorry, guys. I looked all over the place for it and couldn't find it. I get bombarded with news clips from my ISP and if I don't save it, it's almost impossible to backtrack and find it unless I save it as new ones flood and bury the old ones.
That's why it caught my attention and what's interesting is that it's eerily similar to that Business Insider article, except that was through a scientific think-tank who was saying similar things, but he wasn't half as complementary or detailed. You don't usually hear anyone from the US military -- in any capacity -- say things like that unless they're trying to lobby congress for funds by purposely complementing the opponent and showing them as a viable threat that needs to be addressed with more funds for R&D.
Here's the Business Insider article.
Close-up photos of Russia's new 'stealth' jet reveal its true purpose — and it's a big threat to the US
Alex Lockie
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/close-up-photos-of-russias-new-stealth-jet-reveal-its-true-purpose-—-and-its-a-big-threat-to-the-us/ar-AAx1Le2?ocid=ientp
Business Insider Su-57 Moscow Victory Day parade 2018
Russia's "fifth-generation," "combat-tested," "stealth" fighter jet has a lot of dubious claims made about it, but recent close-up photography of the plane from Russia's Victory Day parade on May 9 reveals it's just not a stealth jet.
Russia has tried to sell the plane as a stealth jet to India, but India recently backed out of the program. Considering a shrinking economy and defense spending, it's unclear now if Russia will ever produce the Su-57 in reasonable quantities.
Business Insider asked a senior scientist working on stealth aircraft how to evaluate the plane's stealth, and the results were not good.
The scientist, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of stealth work, pointed out six major problems from the pictures.
First, take a look at the seams between the flaps on the aircraft — they're big. For reference, look at the US's F-22, the stealthiest fighter jet on earth:
The flaps at the end of the wing have very tight seams, which don't scatter radar waves, thereby maintaining a low profile.
Secondly, look at the Su-57's vertical rear tails. They have a wide gap where they stray from the fuselage. Keeping a tight profile is essential to stealth, according to the scientist.
Look at the F-35's rear tails for reference — they touch the whole way.
Third, look at the nose of the Su-57 — it has noticeable seams around the canopy, which kills stealth. The F-35 and F-22 share a smooth, sloped look.
It's likely Russia doesn't have the machining technology to produce such a surface. The actual nose of the Su-57 looks bolted on with noticeable rivets.
Finally, take a look at the underside of the Su-57 — it has rivets and sharp edges everywhere. "If nothing else convinces that no effort at [stealth] was attempted, this is the clincher," said the scientist.
Russia didn't even try at stealth, but that's not their purpose
As the scientist pointed out, Russia didn't even appear to seriously try to make a stealth aircraft. The Su-57 takes certain measures, like storing weapons internally, that improve the stealth, but it's leaps and bounds from a US or even Chinese effort.
This highlights the true purpose of Russia's new fighter — not to evade radar itself, but to kill US stealth jets like the F-35 and F-22.
The Su-57 will feature side mounted radars along its nose, an infrared search and track radar up front, and additional radars in front and back, as well as on the wings.
As The Drive's Tyler Rogoway points out, the side-mounted radars on the Su-57 allow it to excel at a tactic called "beaming" that can trick the radars on US stealth jets. Beaming entails flying perpendicular to a fighter's radar in a way that makes the fighter dismiss the signature of the jet as a non-target.
Any fighter can "beam" by flying sideways, but the Su-57, with sideways-mounted radars, can actually guide missiles and score kills from that direction.
Russia has long taken a different approach to fighter aircraft than the US, but the Su-57 shows that even without the fancy precision-machined stealth of an F-22, Moscow's jets can remain dangerous and relevant.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing I will point out is that it is a bit unfair what this guy said about the V-stabs on the Su-57. He compares the all-movable surfaces to permanently molded and attached V-stabs with rudders. If you have a fully moving V-stab, it won't be seamless like a fixed one with a separate rudder.
There's another piece of literature (I'll be damned if I can find that one either) that mentions how the J-20's cockpit & avionics is probably just as good as the F-22s.
三十年河东,三十年河西。Of course the J-20's avionics and sensor suite is much better than that of the F-22. One was designed in the late 80s while the other just entered service. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say that the J-20 sensor suite is a equal to that of the F-35 ... both of which are superior to the Su-57 in this regard. If you read Dr. Karlo Kopp's RCS study and other statements by academics, you'll find that the J-20 stealth shaping was heavily influenced by that of the F-22. And yes, we do not that the Su-57 is not a VLO fighter ... nothing out of the ordinary. As for the Russians, I do not know what they were thinking ... they are still stuck in the age of dog-fighting it seems with emphasis on subsonic maneuverability. The Su-57 may be pretty at an air show but not so much in an actual fight ...
They're not as good, they're far better than the F-22's. The F-22's cockpit and avionics belong in a museum of technology.
Of course the J-20's avionics and sensor suite is much better than that of the F-22. One was designed in the late 80s while the other just entered service. In fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say that the J-20 sensor suite is a equal to that of the F-35 ... both of which are superior to the Su-57 in this regard. If you read Dr. Karlo Kopp's RCS study and other statements by academics, you'll find that the J-20 stealth shaping was heavily influenced by that of the F-22. And yes, we do not that the Su-57 is not a VLO fighter ... nothing out of the ordinary. As for the Russians, I do not know what they were thinking ... they are still stuck in the age of dog-fighting it seems with emphasis on subsonic maneuverability. The Su-57 may be pretty at an air show but not so much in an actual fight ...