Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[grey boy 2]

happy new year leak...guess what message does this pic give?

@grey boy 2 any idea bro???
apart from hmd

Not really pal, could be many depend on how one think

 

[WarFariX]

Not really pal, could be many depend on how one think

side grips

 

[Asoka]

happy new year leak...guess what message does this pic give?

@grey boy 2 any idea bro???
apart from hmd

It clearly shows the pilot's right hand is on his right side. That means the Joy is not located on the Center but on the side like the F-16. It also clearly show the Seat has a white actuator to seat up or down as G force increases during high G moves.

I am not saying J-20 is designed to fly at Mach 3 regularly. I simply said it got enough power to set some records. When Su-27 set a number of world records, all unnecessary equipments (like radar, gun) were removed and use only minimum fuel needed, even the paint was striped to save a couple hundred pounds.

J-20 has long and slender shape, so it is far more aerodynamic than F-22 and T50 to fly at Supersonic Speed, and has a lot more power, 35% more than F-22, IMO.

So, I think it could do at least Mach1.6-1.8 Supersonic Cruise for more than 30 minutes.

Goodbye 2016, hello 2017

http://share.acg.tv/flash.swf?aid=7113144&page=1

May 2017 be promised to be a very interesting and exciting year for you all.

Effortless and rapid vertical climbing again, and no tell-tale sign of a long long bright flame of the Afterburner turned on. This signifies only Dry Thrust was used to do that. And it means the Dry Thrust alone is greater than the Weight of J-20, which is > 20 tons, IMO.

"Underpowered", it is not. WS-10x, or AL-31FN, it is not. IMO.

Another Yellow Bird takes to the sky on New Year.

 

[Ultima Thule]

"Underpowered", it is not. WS-10x, or AL-31FN, it is not. IMO.

But bro not WS-15 either, but a interim Engine not WS-15

 

[WarFariX]

for god sake dont start the engine topic again

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

But bro not WS-15 either, but a interim Engine not WS-15

Hi Happy Year 2017 Greeting to you and others

Back to your comment.
Yes. And why NOT a variant of WS-15? You meant to tell me, China has NOTHING to show after the first WS-15 prototype was unveiled and tested in 2005. That is very unChina.
Perhaps NOT quite the final target 18 ton version yet. But I am convinced it is WS and most likely WS-15 variant. Nobody has ever seen a WS-10G.

When China bought the D30KP2 to re-engine its H-6 bomber fleet, the new engine does not fit and hence a new plane H6K is borned. The fuselage naxella has to be completely redesigned to house the bigger engine.

In the case of J-20 FGFA, the diameter of its fuselage is designed for bigger diameter WS-15. The engine diameter of both the AL-31F or WS-10 series is smaller. In all the picture posted, I could see that the engine fits quite perfectly into the J-20.

Yes. It is true China is the master in the Art of Deception when it comes to its Military Secret and the nozzle can be easily manipulated to misled many of us but the ability to perform a 90 degree vertical climb without the use of the AB gave it away and IMO is very impressive and convincing as Asok shown to us in his argument. At least I am among those who buys his argument.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Hi Happy Year 2017 Greeting to you and others

Back to your comment.
Yes. And why NOT a variant of WS-15? You meant to tell me, China has NOTHING to show after the first WS-15 prototype was unveiled and tested in 2005. That is very unChina.
Perhaps NOT quite the final target 18 ton version yet. But I am convinced it is WS and most likely WS-15 variant. Nobody has ever seen a WS-10G.

When China bought the D30KP2 to re-engine its H-6 bomber fleet, the new engine does not fit and hence a new plane H6K is borned. The fuselage naxella has to be completely redesigned to house the bigger engine.

In the case of J-20 FGFA, the diameter of its fuselage is designed for bigger diameter WS-15. The engine diameter of both the AL-31F or WS-10 series is smaller. In all the picture posted, I could see that the engine fits quite perfectly into the J-20.

Yes. It is true China is the master in the Art of Deception when it comes to its Military Secret and the nozzle can be easily manipulated to misled many of us but the ability to perform a 90 degree vertical climb without the use of the AB gave it away and IMO is very impressive and convincing as Asok shown to us in his argument. At least I am among those who buys his argument.

yes you are right it is a interim version of WS-15 but not a final version as @ChineseTiger1986 said

 

[Asoka]

Hi Happy Year 2017 Greeting to you and others

Back to your comment.
Yes. And why NOT a variant of WS-15? You meant to tell me, China has NOTHING to show after the first WS-15 prototype was unveiled and tested in 2005. That is very unChina.
Perhaps NOT quite the final target 18 ton version yet. But I am convinced it is WS and most likely WS-15 variant. Nobody has ever seen a WS-10G.

When China bought the D30KP2 to re-engine its H-6 bomber fleet, the new engine does not fit and hence a new plane H6K is borned. The fuselage naxella has to be completely redesigned to house the bigger engine.

In the case of J-20 FGFA, the diameter of its fuselage is designed for bigger diameter WS-15. The engine diameter of both the AL-31F or WS-10 series is smaller. In all the picture posted, I could see that the engine fits quite perfectly into the J-20.

Yes. It is true China is the master in the Art of Deception when it comes to its Military Secret and the nozzle can be easily manipulated to misled many of us but the ability to perform a 90 degree vertical climb without the use of the AB gave it away and IMO is very impressive and convincing as Asok shown to us in his argument. At least I am among those who buys his argument.

Thank you, my Bro. Your support amidst the strenuous or hysterical objections of Butt Gang boys (菊花党) really helps.

According to my calculations, if J-20's empty weight is of 22 tons (2 more than F-22, because its body, nose to nozzle, is 10ft or 3m longer), and carries 3 tons of fuel for the testing or demo (25 tons total), assuming dry thrust is 60% of max thrust, it will requires the engine to have > 212kN of maximum thrust, to left the J-20 in an effortless 90 degrees, vertical climb, without the use of afterburner,

WS-15 has already passed 180kN, IMO, and may have already hit 212kN. This is shockingly more powerful than even the most patriotic Chinese, has predicted. But it's really not that surprising, because WS-15 is rumored to be based on the YAK-141's powerful R79-v300 engine, which was rated as 206kN. That was developed in the 1980's by the Soviets.

It is not beyond belief, because F-35's F135 engine is rated as 196kN, probably under-reported by 10-15% to protect the maximum performance secret. And it's been in production for 10 years already.

I think we have underestimated the WS-15, because the idea that China can't do aircraft engine has burned into our heads.

China's strict secrecy regarding WS-15, and intentional deceptions through the Internet Forums, doesn't help either. China has really got everybody fooled this time. China lived up to its reputation as Master of Deception.

PLAAF knows very well, the engine makes a plane. One must guard the true performance of the engine jealously, because, the performance envelope of the whole plane could be easily approximated using wind tunnel testing and software simulation, once its engine performance is determined.


.

 

[IblinI]

Happy new year to everyone, and i hope 2017 is a great year for our J20!

 

[Asoka]

yes you are right it is a interim version of WS-15 but not a final version as @ChineseTiger1986 said

Like aircraft, there is no final version of engine development, every 5-6 years, a newer model will be developed because of advances in design, materials, and manufacturing process.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Like aircraft, there is no final version of engine development, every 5-6 years, a newer model will be developed because of advances in design, materials, and manufacturing process.

yes bro you are right, but this is not true for engine development it most complex part of the jet, look at the F-22 engine its remain same from beginning

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Thank you, my Bro. Your support amidst the strenuous or hysterical objections of Butt Gang boys (菊花党) really helps.

According to my calculations, if J-20's empty weight is of 22 tons (2 more than F-22, because its body, nose to nozzle, is 10ft or 3m longer), and carries 3 tons of fuel for the testing or demo (25 tons total), assuming dry thrust is 60% of max thrust, it will requires the engine to have > 212kN of maximum thrust, to left the J-20 in an effortless 90 degrees, vertical climb, without the use of afterburner,

WS-15 has already passed 180kN, IMO, and may have already hit 212kN. This is shockingly more powerful than even the most patriotic Chinese, has predicted. But it's really not that surprising, because WS-15 is rumored to be based on the YAK-141's powerful R79-v300 engine, which was rated as 206kN. That was developed in the 1980's by the Soviets.

It is not beyond belief, because F-35's F135 engine is rated as 196kN, probably under-reported by 10-15% to protect the maximum performance secret. And it's been in production for 10 years already.

I think we have underestimated the WS-15, because the idea that China can't do aircraft engine has burned into our heads.

China's strict secrecy regarding WS-15, and intentional deceptions through the Internet Forums, doesn't help either. China has really got everybody fooled this time. China lived up to its reputation as Master of Deception.

PLAAF knows very well, the engine makes a plane. One must guard the true performance of the engine jealously, because, the performance envelope of the whole plane could be easily approximated using wind tunnel testing and software simulation, once its engine performance is determined.


.

You are most welcome, bro. Happy New 2017!

Yes. All experienced and seasoned China Military enthusiasts will tell us that China Military Products will continue to evolve. We can says that the JF-17 Thunder is in fact an evolution of the J-7. The crack-wing J-7 was itself an evolution of the original MiG-21F.

Yes. There is NO such thing as a FINAL version of the WS-15 when it comes to China. The reason why I find it hard to believe that the WS-10G exists is because it is by NO means an easy task to tweak a 13.2 tons into a >15.5 tons monster.

It will be much more easier to accept an idea that a prototype version of WS-15 is already ready or in limited production as Russia has indeed sold and shipped a working model of the R79-300 engine to China along with its data & blueprints. Along with many of her former aeronautical experts who are either employed or migrated to China. I have seen picture evidences of them in China media. They migrated to China together with their families.

So now with the availability of a working model as well its blueprint, it will make the task easier whether it is come to either reverse-engineering or improvision to the original design.

With its advanced State-of-the-Art manufacturing military complexes, China could have easily advanced this design beyond its original capacity hence the possibility of a more powerful version is completely plausible.

Shared with you something, in the absence of clear cut evidence, I always revert to the basic and that is sound. China can concealed the true state of the J-20 but NOT its engine noise. When I compared the engine noise generated by the AL-31F and those of the J-20 I discovered that they are different.

 

[Asoka]

You are most welcome, bro. Happy New 2017!

Yes. All experienced and seasoned China Military enthusiasts will tell us that China Military Products will continue to evolve. We can says that the JF-17 Thunder is in fact an evolution of the J-7. The crack-wing J-7 was itself an evolution of the original MiG-21F.

Yes. There is NO such thing as a FINAL version of the WS-15 when it comes to China. The reason why I find it hard to believe that the WS-10G exists is because it is by NO means an easy task to tweak a 13.2 tons into a >15.5 tons monster.

It will be much more easier to accept an idea that a prototype version of WS-15 is already ready or in limited production as Russia has indeed sold and shipped a working model of the R79-300 engine to China along with its data & blueprints. Along with many of her former aeronautical experts who are either employed or migrated to China. I have seen picture evidences of them in China media. They migrated to China together with their families.

So now with the availability of a working model as well its blueprint, it will make the task easier whether it is come to either reverse-engineering or improvision to the original design.

With its advanced State-of-the-Art manufacturing military complexes, China could have easily advanced this design beyond its original capacity hence the possibility of a more powerful version is completely plausible.

Shared with you something, in the absence of clear cut evidence, I always revert to the basic and that is sound. China can concealed the true state of the J-20 but NOT its engine noise. When I compared the engine noise generated by the AL-31F and those of the J-20 I discovered that they are different.

Happy New 2017!

I totally agreed with you, Bro. China could easily evolved R79-v300 into something much more powerful, given the advances in CFD, engine design, materials, and manufacturing process in the last 20 years with the massive help from the Russian experts. The help to various Chinese industries from China's supercomputers is probably can not be estimated. Many tasks simply can not be performed without Supercomputer. And with Supercomputers, Computational Fluid Dynamic simulation is a breeze. What used to take weeks or months could now be done in hours.

I am also inclined to believe that the early version of WS-15 was on the white nozzle version 2001 of the J-20, because the engine noise is very different from WS-10 and AL-31F. Someone has analyzed the engine sounds using Sound Analyzer and arrived at the conclusion back in 2011. Even a person with normal ears could tell the very distinctive differences.

yes bro you are right, but this is not true for engine development it most complex part of the jet, look at the F-22 engine its remain same from beginning

Happy New 2017!

The F-22's engine F119 HAS evolved to become the F135, which is F-35's engine. If F-22 wasn't cancelled in 2009 and keep developing, it would be using the F135 engine years ago. A newer version of F135 is already developed, called the Variable Cycle Engine (VCE) or Adaptive Engine (AE). It will be used to power the sixth generation fighters.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/ge-details-sixth-generation-adaptive-fighter-engine-plan

 

[yusheng]

 

[grey boy 2]