Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Deino]

This Cangzhou Yaogao airfield - 026 unit is also referred as the Chinese Edwards Air Force Base, it used to host some foreign visitors and pilots from friendly nations ( maybe Pak Army too?). Who knows maybe one day the Americans will pay a visit too for the sake of avoiding misjudgement.

No, 100% for sure it's not Cangzhou Yaogao (FTTC), which indeed houses the 171. and 172. Brigades (as shown by the Su-30MKK above) but it is clearly the CFTE base Dingxin ...

lf You look at photos this older image of Dingxin from GE (2013 being the last update), the two J-20s are parked next to those three same buildings as marked in the red box. The tarmac also seems to have been expanded there.

By the way, the J-10A is an old image, when that unit still had 60xxx-serials, by now these planes are assigned to the 170. Brigade and based at Jiugucheng; the same unit that also received the very first serial J-10B and now also J-10C.

Deino

 

[Asoka]

Another set of pictures that clearly shows J-20's 3D TVC nozzles can do differential turnings, that is, the only one nozzle is turning, or turning at a different rate or angle.

TVC nozzles has the advantages of allowing the plane not to use the controls surfaces as much, during sustained Supersonic Maneuverings. Using the controls surfaces necessarily produce more drags and slow down the plane.

J-20 has a WS-15 engine that possibly has >200kN thrust, 3D TVC nozzles, and 8 control surfaces, including all moving vertical tails, and large canards. They all could do differential activations.

In addition, J-20 has huge long range, Integrated Helmet and Display Sight System (IHADSS), Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS), Distributed Aperture System (EO DAS), which allows 360 degree, spherical situational awareness system. All these systems, F-22 don't have.

If that still don't enable J-20 to dominate F-22 in air battle, I don't know what could.

 

[Tiqiu]

No, 100% for sure it's not Cangzhou Yaogao (FTTC), which indeed houses the 171. and 172. Brigades (as shown by the Su-30MKK above) but it is clearly the CFTE base Dingxin ...

View attachment 358358 View attachment 358359
lf You look at photos this older image of Dingxin from GE (2013 being the last update), the two J-20s are parked next to those three same buildings as marked in the red box. The tarmac also seems to have been expanded there.

By the way, the J-10A is an old image, when that unit still had 60xxx-serials, by now these planes are assigned to the 170. Brigade and based at Jiugucheng; the same unit that also received the very first serial J-10B and now also J-10C.

Deino

Indeed it is Dingxin. But maybe its an old image, or maybe it meant to get people confused. For CFTE is not PLAAF unit, the FTTC is. But again 78271 maybe a fictitious serial too. I don't think that many of J-20 can be produced.

 

[Deino]

Indeed it is Dingxin. But maybe its an old image, or maybe it meant to get people confused. For CFTE is not PLAAF unit, the FTTC is. But again 78271 maybe a fictitious serial too. I don't think that many of J-20 can be produced.

Not sure, why the 176. and 170. Brigade CFTE should not be an operational PLAAF trials-unit, but the serial - also on the J-10A and B are clearly not faked. Concerning the serial 78271 it simply means 787 - 611 = 176. Brigade and the 3. and 5. number aka '21' mens the individula number of that J-20A within that unit. It has nothing to do with the number produced so far.

Another set of pictures that clearly shows J-20's 3D TVC nozzles can do differential turnings, that is, the only one nozzle is turning, or turning at a different rate or angle.

TVC nozzles has the advantages of allowing the plane not to use the controls surfaces as much, during sustained Supersonic Maneuverings. Using the controls surfaces necessarily produce more drags and slow down the plane.

View attachment 358363

@Asok, can You please stop posting the same images over and over again ! They are not TVC-nozzles regardless how many images You try to show. If it would be TVC the angle would be much larger and clearly visible.

 

[Tiqiu]

Not sure, why the 176. and 170. Brigade CFTE should not be an operational PLAAF trials-unit, but the serial - also on the J-10A and B are clearly not faked. Concerning the serial 78271 it simply means 787 - 611 = 176. Brigade and the 3. and 5. number aka '21' mens the individula number of that J-20A within that unit. It has nothing to do with the number produced so far.




@Asok, can You please stop posting the same images over and over again ! They are not TVC-nozzles regardless how many images You try to show. If it would be TVC the angle would be much larger and clearly visible.

That's way I said there shouldn't be as many as 21 birds. Very unlikely.

 

[Asoka]

Not sure, why the 176. and 170. Brigade CFTE should not be an operational PLAAF trials-unit, but the serial - also on the J-10A and B are clearly not faked. Concerning the serial 78271 it simply means 787 - 611 = 176. Brigade and the 3. and 5. number aka '21' mens the individula number of that J-20A within that unit. It has nothing to do with the number produced so far.




@Asok, can You please stop posting the same images over and over again ! They are not TVC-nozzles regardless how many images You try to show. If it would be TVC the angle would be much larger and clearly visible.

They are not the same pictures I had posted before. The TVC need to turn enough to do the job. J-20 has the canards too. No need to turn like the SU-35.

 

[Tiqiu]

Could be 176 a unit at 026.

 

[Deino]

Could be 176 a unit at 026.

No You must teach me !!! What does "unit at 026" mean ?

 

[Tiqiu]

No You must teach me !!! What does "unit at 026" mean ?

Troops 026 is the name used by people living near Cangzhou airbase to call it, as 14 is used for Dingxin.

It seems Dingxin is one of the two FTTC of the base PLAAF, not CFTE, so Yinzhuo was right in claiming few months ago that J-20 would form a special seed unit in PLAAF, which maybe that newly - created 176 Brigade. ( check my post about J-20 entered service few months ago in this thread)

I think J-20 at Dingxin,a stone's throw away from the Shuangchengzi missile test range, means it will undergo weapons integration testing, or has been undergoing already. After all, in the remote desert area, it's more controlled,safe and secret.

Maybe that is the message designed to pass on by the leaked image.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I do not even think the current F-22 can take on J-20 as it will have much more modern electronics and will be equipped with the 500km AAM.

What? 500km AAM name it for us you live in your fairytale and fantasyworld

 

[Deino]

Troops 026 is the name used by people living near Cangzhou airbase to call it, as 14 is used for Dingxin.

It seems Dingxin is one of the two FTTC of the base PLAAF, not CFTE, so Yinzhuo was right in claiming few months ago that J-20 would form a special seed unit in PLAAF, which maybe that newly - created 176 Brigade. ( check my post about J-20 entered service few months ago in this thread)

I think J-20 at Dingxin,a stone's throw away from the Shuangchengzi missile test range, means it will undergo weapons integration testing, or has been undergoing already. After all, in the remote desert area, it's more controlled,safe and secret.

Maybe that is the message designed to pass on by the leaked image.

I completely agree with You and if You check my previous post from 5. August:

https://defence.pk/threads/chengdu-...ates-discussions.111471/page-389#post-8538266

... I was always expecting Dingxin. However with the CFTE or FTTC I am still nor sure.
FTTC would make more sense, but for example Scramble.nl lists this unit under the FTTC but Dingxin also houses a CFTE AEW-detachment.

Can anyone explain or solve that mystery ???

Deino

 

[Ultima Thule]

The PL-15 is also Mach 6 speed.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...r-air-air-missile-could-make-the-us-air-18536

View attachment 358265

No 4.5 mach

They are not the same pictures I had posted before. The TVC need to turn enough to do the job. J-20 has the canards too. No need to turn like the SU-35.

Just in the camera angles nothing but in your wishful thinking and false assumptions

 

[j20blackdragon]

See the gap I highlighted in red below?

Find the gap in this picture.

Find the gap in this picture.

Nozzles are open in all 3 pictures above.

 

[Deino]

See the gap I highlighted in red below?

View attachment 358541

Find the gap in this picture.

View attachment 358542

Find the gap in this picture.

View attachment 358543

Nozzles are open in all 3 pictures above.

If You would post a full-size close-up image of the second and third nozzle in exactly the same size as the first You would see it. IMO You are showing us a high resolution image of the Orange's skin with all their unevenness and in comparison You show us a distant image of an Orange side by side to an orange-coloured Apple and tell us since the skin is plain flat without any unevenness it has to be an Apple too.

Honestly, both engines are exactly the same, even all screws and bolts are exactly on the same place ... even more they are completely different to any WS-10. The only difference are indeed a bit the colours and the J-20's engine is embedded a bit more within the fuselage.

So please why do You guys still to prefer to believe in a mystical hybrid super-WS-10X mated with an AL-31FN's nozzle instead of simply accepting the facts. In nature science when You have several optional possibilities to explain an so far unclear issue, most often - and IMO nearly usually - the most likely option is the real explanation.
A special custom-tailored version of the AL-31 is IMO still the most like explanation, but if You still want to believe in orange coloured Apples it's up to You.

Again ... some day we will know it for sure, we will know why the J-20 can fly the maneuverers at Zhuhai (that were not really special or exciting !), why that unique sound ...

Deino

 

[Beast]

If You would post a full-size close-up image of the second and third nozzle in exactly the same size as the first You would see it. IMO You are showing us a high resolution image of the Orange's skin with all their unevenness and in comparison You show us a distant image of an Orange side by side to an orange-coloured Apple and tell us since the skin is plain flat without any unevenness it has to be an Apple too.

Honestly, both engines are exactly the same, even all screws and bolts are exactly on the same place ... even more they are completely different to any WS-10. The only difference are indeed a bit the colours and the J-20's engine is embedded a bit more within the fuselage.

So please why do You guys still to prefer to believe in a mystical hybrid super-WS-10X mated with an AL-31FN's nozzle instead of simply accepting the facts. In nature science when You have several optional possibilities to explain an so far unclear issue, most often - and IMO nearly usually - the most likely option is the real explanation.
A special custom-tailored version of the AL-31 is IMO still the most like explanation, but if You still want to believe in orange coloured Apples it's up to You.

Again ... some day we will know it for sure, we will know why the J-20 can fly the maneuverers at Zhuhai (that were not really special or exciting !), why that unique sound ...

Deino

What facts can you present other than artificial external vision identity? Is there any confirmation of so called super AL-31F engine that can ramp up 140kn thrust which is other than make up by you. If there is such a magical AL-31F engine. I guess 117S engine is just extra and PAFKA will not have so much problem.

The whole demo by J-20 at zhuhai do not even engage a single usage of afterburner. This is a fact I think some just cherry pick to avoid to suit their agenda.