Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[hk299792458]

Chinese army doesn't use the notion of IOC and FOC. There is conception certification (设计定型) before produdction certification (生产定型).

For me it is meaningless to use western notion to qualify chinese weapon development process.

You can learn more about this standardized process here (using an example of missile development) :

http://jpkc.nwpu.edu.cn/jp2005/02/wljx/wlkc/ztsj/ztwk/zt01/1-2.htm

结合国内有关军标的相关规定,把横向的制造过程重新细分为六个阶段:论证阶段、方案阶段、工程研制、设计定型、生产工艺定型、生产阶段。

If I'm not wrong, for navy weapon the conception certification and production certification are inversed.

Henri K.

 

[Tiqiu]

http://www.weibo.com/u/3726727615?refer_flag=0000015012_&from=feed&loc=nickname&is_hot=1#_loginLayer_1465365758470

进击的女武神
我听说也快了，不过不是大批量装备，而是类似于当年F22那样，先小批量试验性装备，边培养人才，边根据试验中发现的问题进行改进。我不懂空军，胡咧咧。【头条 | 外媒：中国空军否认“歼-20已入役” 但表示“快了”】

Baidu translation: I heard that it is fast, but not a lot of equipment, but similar to the year F22, the first small batch test equipment, training personnel, while according to the problems found in the test to improve. I don't know the air force, Hu lielie. Foreign media: Chinese | headlines [air force denied "f -20 has been put into service" but said "soon"]

进击的女武神: China Rockets Force Professor.

 

[Deino]

Three J-20s side by side ...

 

[Deino]

By the way ... did You notice, how effective the Chinese stealth technology already is ?

There's a fourth J-20 and this one between the two light-grey/silver ones is barely visible: Only a small faded, blurred "bit of nearly nothing" !

Deino

 

[nang2]

By the way ... did You notice, how effective the Chinese stealth technology already is ?

There's a fourth J-20 and this one between the two light-grey/silver ones is barely visible: Only a small faded, blurred "bit of nearly nothing" !

Deino

Now I know how stealth plane drills oil.

 

[Tiqiu]

By the way ... did You notice, how effective the Chinese stealth technology already is ?

There's a fourth J-20 and this one between the two light-grey/silver ones is barely visible: Only a small faded, blurred "bit of nearly nothing" !

Deino

2113?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

It is much bigger than the J-10.

 

[Deino]

It is much bigger than the J-10.

Sorry, but was this ever questioned ?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Sorry, but was this ever questioned ?

I didn't intend to answer anybody's question.

 

[cirr]

WS-15 being put through various tests, going extremely well.

 

[Michael Corleone]

So when is this jet finally coming out for production?

 

[siegecrossbow]

So when is this jet finally coming out for production?

Later this year or early next year.

 

[UKBengali]

WS-15 being put through various tests, going extremely well.

Any idea when it will be put into the J-20 for flight testing?

 

[cirr]

Any idea when it will be put into the J-20 for flight testing?

The optimists say this year I being a pessimist will go for next year.

 

[Deino]

Via "superdog" at the SDF:

An interesting interview with Xu Yongling, Chief test pilot of the J-10, regarding J-20 and various other questions:

Summary of the interview:

• J-20 (the model name) is no longer classified so he can publicly discuss it.
• He said he's not in the test flight team of any new models, and he's not going to comment about the specific technologies, but he can provide time-frame analysis on J-20's development using his own methods (he claims that his past estimates were very accurate).
  
• He believes that J-20 is an airplane for mass deployment (instead of limited deployment), there should be at least 100+
• He expects the J-20 to be delivered to the PLAAF within next year.
  
• PLAAF will be very wary about the IOC timeframe because this will be a mass deployment
• There won't be any major technical obstacles (delays) for the J-20 towards delivery. China's plane development cycle has been comparable to the US or Russia since the J-10, because they went through full learning cycle from building older generation jets. (Here he used Tejas as a counter example)
  
• There will still be minor issue (issues that does not affect delivery) to sort out. The most problematic area is probably in information integration. It will take a lot of trial and error to figure out how this can be done effectively.
  
• Someone asked: it's information integration, but not engine? Xu said the problem of engine is not a "heart disease", it is not fatal, but rather a chronic problem/limiting factor to improve on. He said "diabetes" should be a better metaphor.
• The diabetes can only be cured by next generation engines, based on what's learned from Kunlun and Taihang. He believe all bottlenecks will eventually be overcome.
• He said the most important factor for solving the engine problem is human. China lacked a team that has failed and then succeeded, there are only people who failed and then partially succeeded. They must invest heavily into building a mature R&D team. Hiring outside talents will also help but eventually it is essential to have your own team.
  
• In talking about Su-35: Su-35 purchase is to satisfy immediate needs. Tech wise China could mainly learn from its flight control, especially its "low-speed all-situation super maneuverability" which is the only example in the world. It also achieved this maneuverability without canards, something that China is unable to achieve today.
  
• The deal on Su-35 depends on the political situation between China/Russia/US. In addition, China is not going to buy a lot but wants to get it in a hurry, so it has very little bargaining power as a buyer. As a result of these complicating factors, whether the deal can go through is highly uncertain, it could happen next month or it could keep dragging on, or it may never go through.
• He also commented on the restart of F-22 manufacturing. He said the US doesn't have much options because 6th gen fighters are still very far away, people still don't have any concrete ideas about what it should be. In the near future 5th gen fighters will continue to play a major role. The F-35, in his opinion, is too chubby looking and not good enough to compete.
  
• But it will be very very expensive to restart F-22 manufacturing, it cost a lot to get all the tooling and people back together, not to mention there's a very long supply chain. There will also be political backlash as this would be like a slap to the face for those who shut down F-22 manufacturing back in the days.
• About China's carrier-borne fighters, he said it depends on whether there will be 2 carriers or 4. If there are only 2 then J-15 will be the only answer. It will be too expensive to develop a new model for such small deployment numbers. However if there will be 4 carriers, then it will make sense to have a new model on the next 3 carriers. About 80-100 fighters will justify the cost of development.
  
• He estimate that even if there will be 4 carriers, they will be moderately enlarged versions of the Liaoning, as it might be too expensive to develop 100k ton carriers with vastly different system of operation. But as long as there will be 4 (or more) carriers, we could expect to see carrier-borne fighters with 4th gen (5th gen) characteristics.
  
• Can the future carrier borne fighter be based on the J-20 or J- 31? He said the position of carrier in the military is important but not absolutely at the core, so it must balance between combat-effectiveness and cost-effectiveness. He believe it is possible to base it on current prototypes, and in his opinion the J-31 is the more likely choice.