Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[Firemaster]

I have to admit that this particular guy has brought me to the end of my stamina a few times...

Well Sir, We cant made someone forcibly to agree with us.If he is not agreeing with you for this long, he wont agree even after this, no matter how long you keep him convincing or busting.
It is upto the silent watchers, the sane ones who know and can judge that who has actual experience.

 

[antonius123]

You tried to use your aviation 'background' to shut down the Indians.

It is understood that the word 'background' usually includes: education, training and experience, in that order. But in your case, you redefined 'background' to eliminate experience.

Fine with me.

So YOU eliminate experience out of background for your own face saving convenience. We know that you have no aviation related education because you failed to answer a first year aerodynamics question:

- What is the dominant variable in longitudinal stability?
- Power.

So now we can eliminate education from your aviation background. But we all know that training is not possible unless a person have the necessary education to put to practice theories learned in education. Since we have eliminated education from your background, YOU eliminated experience and logic eliminated training.

That leave your aviation 'background' as -- NOTHING.



You are not doing the Chinese and the J-20 any good, buddy.

See .. you re post the same question that I already replied/answered. It prove how severe your ignorance is.

Furthermore, you are insisting and forcing your own thought (miss conception) to other peoples. What kind of faker are you?

I have been waiting any evidence you can bring to support your claim that Background has to include experience...where???

Arent you ashamed glaringly demonstrating your emptiness, idiocy and ignorance?

That is the sad thing with all the thanks one gives the other. Most of the time they have no idea what amount of ignorance they have just supported, rendering at once all of their posts useless for any purpose other than comedy!

And again you are coming as his cheer leader

The 'Thank' feature have been rendered next to worthless, not just by the Chinese but by anyone who is basically anti-US for any reason. It is a feeble attempt at a backhanded slap to the Americans here by saying that: 'Of all the posts I see only this and that I find useful.' Even if the supposedly 'useful' post contains nothing more than a 'troll' comment or a cheap insult.

Bla bla bla... the slap is only for faker, ignorance and clueless like you and the cheerleaders (amalakas, etc)

 

[antonius123]

Answering generic control technology questions is supposed to make us prove ourselves. Large scale replacements to factory relays have anything to do with Aviation and avionics ? what are you ? some kind of a crazy person?

I am just following gambit's game.

And just so you don't think we are running away :

PLC=Programmable Logic Controller
DCS=Distributed Control System

PLC's main purpose is to replace the relay logic controls which is "On" or "Off". And DCS "Distributed Control Systems" its emphasis is Fast analog handling because of communications through Bus systems, networking etc.

PLC was developed as a replacement for many relays. DCS was developed as a replacement for many PID controllers.

These days the difference between these two architectures is not very big. Both have a CPU card (controller module) and an I/O subsystem with I/O modules. In the past a PLC was purely logic and the DCS purely continuous controller. The PLC was programmed in ladder and the DCS in function blocks. Today both handle all kinds of I/O and can be programmed in multiple languages. In the past a DCS included servers and workstations software whereas for the PLC the HMI software was purchased separately. I.e. with a
DCS you got an integrated system whereas with PLC you did system integration.
*** there is a footnote to this which may or may not be relevant in the future


Now, what large scale factory control systems have to do with Aviation is anyone's guess.

Now I have a question for you, what is QFT ?

You are not answering my questions at all. Instead you are only copy and paste internet article about PLC and DCS

I ask you again: what is the advantage of PLC over DCS? this is the basic about control engineering. And I am not surprised the faker Gambit until now cannot come with clue or answer

 

[amalakas]

See .. you re post the same question that I already replied/answered. It prove how severe your ignorance is.

Furthermore, you are insisting and forcing your own thought (miss conception) to other peoples. What kind of faker are you?

I have been waiting any evidence you can bring to support your claim that Background has to include experience...where???

Arent you ashamed glaringly demonstrating your emptiness, idiocy and ignorance?



And again you are coming as his cheer leader



Bla bla bla... the slap is only for faker, ignorance and clueless like you and the cheerleaders (amalakas, etc)

will you reply to anything of value ? because you are still just taking up valuable space here

 

[gambit]

See .. you re post the same question that I already replied/answered. It prove how severe your ignorance is.

Furthermore, you are insisting and forcing your own thought (miss conception) to other peoples. What kind of faker are you?

I have been waiting any evidence you can bring to support your claim that Background has to include experience...where???

Arent you ashamed glaringly demonstrating your emptiness, idiocy and ignorance?

Sure...

Background | Define Background at Dictionary.com

one's origin, education, experience, etc., in relation to one's present character, status, etc.

You have none of education and experience.

You failed to answer my question regarding the relationship wing area engineering in post 2439...

Since you failed to answer my question on post 2434, I will make it easier on you.

For any design, fuselage and range motivate the minimum takeoff weight engineering. So what motivate the wing area?

...So the answer is: Approach speed, initial cruise altitude and balanced field length.

Balanced field takeoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The balanced field length is the shortest field length at which a balanced field takeoff can be performed.

Next first year aerodynamics/aviation question: What motivate the propulsion engineering?

No one is asking for any hard math here. Heck, I do not remember much -- if not most -- of it......But at least I remember the principles. Surely you who tried to shut down the Indians with your aviation 'background' should remember these, after all, you certainly are much younger than I am.

 

[eachus]

gambit, can you read and explain how that happens?

July 13, 2012


“Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch”
Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22 at Red Flag Alaska

Farnborough 2012: “Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch” Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22 at Red Flag Alaska « The Aviationist


As we have already reported, the Typhoons and the Raptor had the opportunity engage each other in dissimilar air combat training but only a part of the story about the outcome of the mock engagements has been reported so far: the one about the German commander saying that the F-22′s capabilities are “overwhelming,” a statement that, according to Eurofighter sources, was taken out of context.

Indeed, Typhoon pilots at Farnborough said that, when flying without their external fuel tanks, in the WVR (Within Visual Range) arena, the Eurofighter not only held its own, but proved to be better than the Raptor.

Indeed, it looks like the F-22 tends to lose too much energy when using thrust vectoring (TV): TV can be useful to enable a rapid direction change without losing sight of the adversary but, unless the Raptor can manage to immediately get in the proper position to score a kill, the energy it loses makes the then slow moving stealth combat plane quite vulnerable.

This would be coherent by analysis made in the past according to which the TV it’s not worth the energy cost unless the fighter is in the post stall regime, especially in the era of High Off Bore Sight and Helmet Mounted Display (features that the F-22 lacks).

Obviously, U.S. fighter pilots could argue that, flying a stealthy plane they will never need to engage an enemy in WVR dogfight, proving that, as already explained several times, kills and HUD captures scored during air combat training are not particularly interesting unless the actual Rules Of Engagement (ROE) and the training scenario are known.

However, not all the modern and future scenarios envisage BVR (Beyond Visual Range) engagements and the risk of coming to close range 1 vs 1 (or 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 etc) is still high, especially considered that the F-22 currently uses AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles, whose maximum range is around 100 km (below the Meteor missile used by the Typhoon).

Moreover, at a distance of about 50 km the Typhoon IRST (Infra-Red Search and Track) system is capable to find even a stealthy plane “especially if it is large and hot, like the F-22″ a Eurofighter pilot said.

Anyway, the Typhoons scored several Raptor kills during the Red Flag Alaska. On one day a German pilot, recounting a succesfull mission ironically commented: “yesterday, we have had a Raptor salad for lunch.”

 

[gambit]

gambit, can you read and explain how that happens?

Already answered...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-we-had-raptor-salad-lunch-2.html#post3228751

 

[eachus]

Already answered...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-we-had-raptor-salad-lunch-2.html#post3228751

you did not answer this,

Moreover, at a distance of about 50 km the Typhoon IRST (Infra-Red Search and Track) system is capable to find even a stealthy plane “especially if it is large and hot, like the F-22″ a Eurofighter pilot said.


I thought F22 has 3-S, how come it lost to Typhoon, the older generation.

 

[antonius123]

will you reply to anything of value ? because you are still just taking up valuable space here

What kind of value do you expect from your counter debate for your no valuable word gaming and cheerleading?

Check again your own post. Do you think all or most of your post is valuable?

Already answered...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-we-had-raptor-salad-lunch-2.html#post3228751

Do you think you have answered? You dont answered anything yet as usual

 

[antonius123]

Sure...

Background | Define Background at Dictionary.com

You have none of education and experience.

See again the sentence, idiot.

You have poor reading comprehension.

Experience could be one ingredient of the background.

Do you think one without field/working experience = having no background at all?

You failed to answer my question regarding the relationship wing area engineering in post 2439...


...So the answer is: Approach speed, initial cruise altitude and balanced field length.

Balanced field takeoff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Next first year aerodynamics/aviation question: What motivate the propulsion engineering?

No one is asking for any hard math here. Heck, I do not remember much -- if not most -- of it......But at least I remember the principles. Surely you who tried to shut down the Indians with your aviation 'background' should remember these, after all, you certainly are much younger than I am.

Do you think you will have a credit by showing off your internet copy and paste?
Do you think people will fall to believe you are an expert by copy and paste?



I've told you that you have lost your credibility since you claim: Airduct/intake = Nacelle. What kind of aviation expert that unable to distinguish Air Intake with Nacelle?

If you can't accept my citation, explanation and evidence when I busted you regarding Nacelle = air intake, then what can we expect you to accept my valid answer?

I give you another chance to prove your claim. Tell me why do you call the PAKFA's air intake as a nacelle? What is nacelle?

 

[amalakas]

gambit, can you read and explain how that happens?

July 13, 2012


“Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch”
Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22 at Red Flag Alaska

Farnborough 2012: “Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch” Typhoon pilot said after dogfighting with the F-22 at Red Flag Alaska « The Aviationist


As we have already reported, the Typhoons and the Raptor had the opportunity engage each other in dissimilar air combat training but only a part of the story about the outcome of the mock engagements has been reported so far: the one about the German commander saying that the F-22′s capabilities are “overwhelming,” a statement that, according to Eurofighter sources, was taken out of context.

Indeed, Typhoon pilots at Farnborough said that, when flying without their external fuel tanks, in the WVR (Within Visual Range) arena, the Eurofighter not only held its own, but proved to be better than the Raptor.

Indeed, it looks like the F-22 tends to lose too much energy when using thrust vectoring (TV): TV can be useful to enable a rapid direction change without losing sight of the adversary but, unless the Raptor can manage to immediately get in the proper position to score a kill, the energy it loses makes the then slow moving stealth combat plane quite vulnerable.

This would be coherent by analysis made in the past according to which the TV it’s not worth the energy cost unless the fighter is in the post stall regime, especially in the era of High Off Bore Sight and Helmet Mounted Display (features that the F-22 lacks).

Obviously, U.S. fighter pilots could argue that, flying a stealthy plane they will never need to engage an enemy in WVR dogfight, proving that, as already explained several times, kills and HUD captures scored during air combat training are not particularly interesting unless the actual Rules Of Engagement (ROE) and the training scenario are known.

However, not all the modern and future scenarios envisage BVR (Beyond Visual Range) engagements and the risk of coming to close range 1 vs 1 (or 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 etc) is still high, especially considered that the F-22 currently uses AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles, whose maximum range is around 100 km (below the Meteor missile used by the Typhoon).

Moreover, at a distance of about 50 km the Typhoon IRST (Infra-Red Search and Track) system is capable to find even a stealthy plane “especially if it is large and hot, like the F-22″ a Eurofighter pilot said.

Anyway, the Typhoons scored several Raptor kills during the Red Flag Alaska. On one day a German pilot, recounting a succesfull mission ironically commented: “yesterday, we have had a Raptor salad for lunch.”

you did not answer this,

Moreover, at a distance of about 50 km the Typhoon IRST (Infra-Red Search and Track) system is capable to find even a stealthy plane “especially if it is large and hot, like the F-22″ a Eurofighter pilot said.


I thought F22 has 3-S, how come it lost to Typhoon, the older generation.

See how some times we get trapped into our own arguments.

No plane is unbeatable.

The F-22 is perhaps not as agile as the EF2000 or the Su-xxx s .. so some victories are going to be scored. Remember the ratio given often is the 10-1 against Su-30s and such.

It implies that some Raptors may be lost. As any reasonable man would assume in war anything is possible.


However when some of us where discussing these issues in favour of russian and european planes the chinese members were ready to point out that the J-20 will have no such weak points.

 

[amalakas]

See again the sentence, idiot.

You have poor reading comprehension.

Experience could be one ingredient of the background.

Do you think one without field/working experience = having no background at all?



Do you think you will have a credit by showing off your internet copy and paste?
Do you think people will fall to believe you are an expert by copy and paste?



I've told you that you have lost your credibility since you claim: Airduct/intake = Nacelle. What kind of aviation expert that unable to distinguish Air Intake with Nacelle?

If you can't accept my citation, explanation and evidence when I busted you regarding Nacelle = air intake, then what can we expect you to accept my valid answer?

I give you another chance to prove your claim. Tell me why do you call the PAKFA's air intake as a nacelle? What is nacelle?

and I thought I wouldn't be entertained tonite...

here is an air duct

Notice how it is from an air conditioning unit !!


Yet another one :

So as you can see an air duct is anything that pretty much ... guides air...


Actually the dictionary of the english language supports the reasonable claim..

Nacelle | Define Nacelle at Dictionary.com

nacelle 

noun

1.the enclosed part of an airplane, dirigible, etc., in which the engine is housed or in which cargo or passengers are carried.
2. the car of a balloon.

Air duct | Define Air duct at Dictionary.com

air duct 
noun
an enclosure, usually of sheet metal, that conducts heated or conditioned air.
noun
a duct that provides ventilation (as in mines)

What are you going to say now? you don't like online dictionaries ?


keep up the comedy man...

 

[antonius123]

See how some times we get trapped into our own arguments.

No plane is unbeatable.

The F-22 is perhaps not as agile as the EF2000 or the Su-xxx s .. so some victories are going to be scored. Remember the ratio given often is the 10-1 against Su-30s and such.

It implies that some Raptors may be lost. As any reasonable man would assume in war anything is possible.


However when some of us where discussing these issues in favour of russian and european planes the chinese members were ready to point out that the J-20 will have no such weak points.

Why should you drag J-20 here? nobody claim that J-20 has no weakness point. It is you who are too sensitive with some member's explanation.

Btw your explanation is too general, and the skin level, with many "perhaps" and "maybe". Not touching yet about WVR explanation, which is actually the essential explanation here. Actually that ratio you mentioned is about BVR engagement.

and I thought I wouldn't be entertained tonite...

You are busting your own master

Why dont you feel entertained by your own master gambit? it is him who claimed Nacelle when I mentioned about uneven "Air Intake" gap on PAKFA (that contribute rcs)

here is an air duct

Notice how it is from an air conditioning unit !!


Yet another one :

So as you can see an air duct is anything that pretty much ... guides air...


Actually the dictionary of the english language supports the reasonable claim..

Nacelle | Define Nacelle at Dictionary.com



Air duct | Define Air duct at Dictionary.com


What are you going to say now? you don't like online dictionaries ?


keep up the comedy man...

I already know what airduct, air intake, and nacelle. I challenge your master Gambit because he doesnt know which is paradox to his self claimed aviation expert

And, where is the Nacelle part on PAKFA?? Remember your master Gambit call it as Nacelle when I mentioned PAKFA's air intake.

I am feeling entertained with your comedy actually

 

[amalakas]

Why should you drag J-20 here? nobody claim that J-20 has no weakness point. It is you who are too sensitive with some member's explanation.

Btw your explanation is too general, and the skin level, with many "perhaps" and "maybe". Not touching yet about WVR explanation, which is actually the essential explanation here. Actually that ratio you mentioned is about BVR engagement.


You are busting your own master

Why dont you feel entertained by your own master gambit? it is him who claimed Nacelle when I mentioned about uneven "Air Intake" gap on PAKFA (that contribute rcs)


I already know what airduct, air intake, and nacelle. I challenge your master Gambit because he doesnt know which is paradox to his self claimed aviation expert

And, where is the Nacelle part on PAKFA?? Remember your master Gambit call it as Nacelle when I mentioned PAKFA's air intake.

I am feeling entertained with your comedy actually

That is because the engines in the pak fa are in nacelles maybe ??

The engines in the MiG 29,Su-27-xx and the PakFa are in a Nacelle each. the front part of any nacelle is the air intake genius ....

keep coming back comedy man, we'll kindly respond to anything...

 

[eachus]

See how some times we get trapped into our own arguments.

No plane is unbeatable.

The F-22 is perhaps not as agile as the EF2000 or the Su-xxx s .. so some victories are going to be scored. Remember the ratio given often is the 10-1 against Su-30s and such.

It implies that some Raptors may be lost. As any reasonable man would assume in war anything is possible.


However when some of us where discussing these issues in favour of russian and european planes the chinese members were ready to point out that the J-20 will have no such weak points.

Well, J-20 nobody claim it is perfect. very few ppl insist it has supercruise capability at least for now.
but, F-22 is different, it it supposed to be the king of the sky.


fifth-generation fighters F-22 defined as big "3S".
1) having all-aspect stealth even when armed.
2) with super maneuverability achieve through thrust vectoring.
3) supercruise capability.


the king with "super maneuverability" get into the lunch salad by 4th generation on dog fighting, it is a surprise to me. the F16 pilot said he saw a F-22 in the front suddenly the same F-22 locks the F16 from behind. F-22 was God like fighter.

I still dont understand "super maneuverability achieve through thrust vectoring" can shoot down by older generation easily. how that is possible. I am not talking about something with "good" maneuverability, it is "super"!


Anyway, the Typhoons scored several Raptor kills during the Red Flag Alaska. On one day a German pilot, recounting a succesfull mission ironically commented: “yesterday, we have had a Raptor salad for lunch.”