Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Keysersoze]

On what basis? The aim 120D is the benchmark BVR

 

[mean_bird]

The J-10 uses PL-12 BVRs whereas the F-22 for example uses AIM 120, am I right? If this is the case, then the J-10's have a superior missile.

How did you come to that conclusion? and which AIM-120 are you talking about because they come as different variants.

I think the AIM-120C5 and above is currently the best A2A missile before the MBDA Meteor arrives.

 

[Patriot]

AIM120D is the best version but AIM120C are still in service and will be in service for quite sometime.I think Pakistan should take oppurtunity and somehow acquire MBDA Meteor Missile which is best!

 

[Lockheed F-16]

Some sources claim the resulting combination has a greater range than the Russian missile, and a fire-and-forget active guidance (from R-77) capability comparable to the modern U.S. AIM-120 AMRAAM.[4] [5] [6] The PL-12 is outwardly very similar to the US-designed AIM-120 AMRAAM. The two share a comparable aerodynamic configuration, although the PL-12 is a little longer, wider and heavier than the AMRAAM. The PL-12 has four rear-mounted control fins that each have a very distinctive notch cut into their base. These fins are longer and more prominent than those of the AMRAAM and are cropped at an angle (rather than in line with the missile body). Four larger triangular fins are fixed to the mid-section of the missile. Internally, the leading edge of the centrebody fins is in line with the start of the missile's rocket motor. That motor is a variable-thrust solid rocket booster, that offers two levels of motive power for different sections of the flight envelope. CATIC is known to be developing X-band and Ku-band active radar seekers, which may be intended for the PL-12. However the latest reports confirm that China has been co-operating closely with Russia's AGAT Research Institute, based in Moscow, and that AGAT is the source of the PL-12's essential active seeker. This joint development effort (perhaps with the name 'Project 129') has reportedly seen the supply of AGAT's 9B-1348 active-radar seeker (developed for the Vympel R-77, AA-12 'Adder') to China for integration with the Chinese-developed missile. Alternatively, technology from AGAT's 9B-1103M seeker family may be offered to China. Russia is also the source for the missile's inertial navigation system and datalink. The PL-12 has four engagement modes. To take the greatest advantage of its maximum range it will use a mix of command guidance (via a datalink) plus its own inertial guidance before entering the active radar terminal guidance phase. The missile can also be launched to a pre-selected point, using its strap-down inertial system, before switching on its own seeker for a terminal search. Over short ranges the missile can be launched in a 'fire-and-forget' mode using its own active seeker from the outset. Finally, the PL-12 has a 'home-on-jam' mode that allows it to passively track and engage an emitting target, without ever using its own active radar or a radar from the launch aircraft. This capability is the foundation on which the capability of anti-radiation missile is developed. The seeker is connected to a digital flight control system that uses signal processing techniques to track a target. The missile's warhead is linked to a laser proximity fuse. The PL-12 is claimed to have an operational ceiling of at least 21 km, with a maximum effective range of 80 km and a minimum engagement range of 1,000 m. The missile has a 38+ g manoeuvering limit and, according to CATIC, it has been tested for a 100-hour captive 'live flight' life. According to the Chinese claim, PL-12 is more capable than the American AIM-120 A/B, but slightly inferior than the AIM-120C


That was the thing I meant

 

[mean_bird]

The AIM-120 A/B is so yesteryear. Its like comparing something to F-16 but meaning the block 5.

 

[Lockheed F-16]

AIM120D is the best version but AIM120C are still in service and will be in service for quite sometime.I think Pakistan should take oppurtunity and somehow acquire MBDA Meteor Missile which is best!

Agreed, Pakistan should try to get its hand on them, Meteors are great missiles

 

[mean_bird]

The MBDA meteor is on the cards for the JF-17. This was reported during IDEAS 2008. You can check their online brochure but Meteor is still a bit far away from entering service.

 

[Arsalan]

The MBDA meteor is on the cards for the JF-17. This was reported during IDEAS 2008. You can check their online brochure but Meteor is still a bit far away from entering service.

well brother from what i know about the meteor, it is going to be the best air to air missile until and unless some one else comes up with some thing even better which is very unlikely as it is far superior than anything present on under development (publicaly known projects) today!

i really dont think Pakistan is ever going to get hands on to it! the only possibility is of a large contract deal including some planes, avionics for JF17 etc and then this system may be offered as there will be a lot of money involved but the missiles for JF17 only seem a bit difficult!!

do anyone of you have any link or info in this regard!

 

[mean_bird]

"Meanwhile, France has offered Pakistan its RC-400 radar and MBDA MICA missile for the aircraft. However, AESA radar of different makes have also been offered to the Pakistan Air Force and the MBDA Meteor missile too is on the cards. Pakistan has begun negotiations with British, Italian, and French defence firms over potential avionics and other systems for the JF-17 Thunder aircrafts." (IDEAS 2008)

Just for info, there are other possibilities too like South African new BVR (R-Darter?) and speculated Chinese Ramjet based BVR.

It depends if we for for RC-400 or some European AESA radar. Ofcourse, we can't get it to integrate on Chinese systems but if we buy a radar that is already compatible, then there are chances of getting it.

 

[Gucci Juice]

its offered

but can the govt afford the meteor?

it costs 1.5 million dollars PER MISSILE

thats almost 4x more than aim-120 c5, 15x more than pl-12, 2x more than the aim-120 d.

and the R series prices are not listed, but expect them to be 1.5x cheaper then the aim-120 series.

and 500 aim-120 c5's are already ordered and they're pretty good but 500 is a low quantity compared to about 3000-5000 bvr missiles the IAF has.

dont deny this because in 5 years there will be 500+1000 pl 12 which equals 1500. if u can get 1500 in 5 years than the IAF can easily get over 5000 in 20 years.

 

[sohailbutt]

its offered

but can the govt afford the meteor?

it costs 1.5 million dollars PER MISSILE

thats almost 4x more than aim-120 c5, 15x more than pl-12, 2x more than the aim-120 d.

and the R series prices are not listed, but expect them to be 1.5x cheaper then the aim-120 series.

and 500 aim-120 c5's are already ordered and they're pretty good but 500 is a low quantity compared to about 3000-5000 bvr missiles the IAF has.

dont deny this because in 5 years there will be 500+1000 pl 12 which equals 1500. if u can get 1500 in 5 years than the IAF can easily get over 5000 in 20 years.

Can you give the sources to all the crap you've written above!

3000-5000 BVR in IAF are you nuts!

$1.5 for one missile, mate the camera on a predator UAV is only worth a $1 million dollar, AIM 120 D is worth $750,000 according to wiki, but meteor according to you is just an overstated price.

Please provide sources with your post or else it's better not to derail the thread and create confusion by posting BS!

 

[Arsalan]

"Meanwhile, France has offered Pakistan its RC-400 radar and MBDA MICA missile for the aircraft. However, AESA radar of different makes have also been offered to the Pakistan Air Force and the MBDA Meteor missile too is on the cards. Pakistan has begun negotiations with British, Italian, and French defence firms over potential avionics and other systems for the JF-17 Thunder aircrafts." (IDEAS 2008)

Just for info, there are other possibilities too like South African new BVR (R-Darter?) and speculated Chinese Ramjet based BVR.

It depends if we for for RC-400 or some European AESA radar. Ofcourse, we can't get it to integrate on Chinese systems but if we buy a radar that is already compatible, then there are chances of getting it.

well if this happens it is going to be great for us. with all the things going around in our countrty and almost finalized deal being delayed (the german submarine), it seem unlikely to happen but i wish i am wrong!


]anyways thanks for the report

regards

 

[Gucci Juice]

Can you give the sources to all the crap you've written above!

3000-5000 BVR in IAF are you nuts!

$1.5 for one missile, mate the camera on a predator UAV is only worth a $1 million dollar, AIM 120 D is worth $750,000 according to wiki, but meteor according to you is just an overstated price.

Please provide sources with your post or else it's better not to derail the thread and create confusion by posting BS!

R-27RE1/TE1 [AA-10 Alamo-C/D] [www.bharat-rakshak.com]


that's for 1500 r-27s with a range of 120-130 km

and i have no doubt that an equal amount of r-77s were ordered

also around 500 bvrs were also probably ordered for mirage 2000s

that's around 3500

close to my 3000-5000 range for bvr missiles

oh and for the cost of meteor

and the 1.5 million dollar cost is from wikipedia,WHICH IS REFERENCED FROM the auditor general of England in 2003.

the cost on wikipedia is in gbp but converting that to dollars means its 1.5 million dollars TODAY, but in future when gbp recovers it will be even more possibly 2 million dollars.

this isn't a surprise since aim-120, r-27, and r-77 have been mass produced thus lowering their price. however since meteor hasn't even been produced yet the price will be high for quite some time until some competitor emerges.

edit:

wow what a quintessence, the air chief himself says that there are 3500 bvr missiles.

now do u believe me?

if not look for a thread here

lol that was funny

 

[Keysersoze]

Sorry mate but you are wrong India has to declare missiles that it has under treaty. Also the shelf life on Russian missiles is low for example the r-27 is only 8 years

 

[kungpaochicken]

There are rumors going around in CDF that Chengdu is developing a new enhanced model of J10, it was internally referred as "big eye frogie", because it is a twin engine semi stealthy plane that looks like a frog from behind. It could be a natural extension of framed guestimation by Chinese bloggers after the leak of J10B pictures over internet, (the long-rumored DSI version just revealed to be reality, why not the twin engine version?). But who knows, even US can only equip with limited amount of 4th gen fighters, China may have to resort to a solution which is less expensive and quicker to be implemented.