Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[wangrong]

 

[araz]

Wow...depending on the authenticity of that picture, many of us were right all along regarding certain upgrades...

FC-20 is going to not only neutralize the SU30MKI threat but be a major player and probably leader in the legit 4.5 generation fighter league.

AESA radar may be fitted on J-10B on top of the visible differences

My friend.
I would hold back on the enthusiasm. We have all been excited and disappointed whaen these snaps turned out to be CGs . Secondly what is more importat is what is not revealed,ie engine, avionics compatibility with western missiles, Sino missile development. There are so many imponderables. All that I say is wait till some more news comes out.
For instance although i hate the Chin inlet cosmetically, why would you change it to a DSI inlet? especially when the plane performs well on the inlet. If I remember correctly, no plane with DSI can go Mach 2+(although you can correct me if i am wrong). So you may be decreasing the planes speed with out any significant gains.
I am sure by the time it comes into PAFs hand it would be a fantastic plane, but PAF has been talking about a non chinese avionics suite and radar. Whether the chinese progress in Radar and avionics satisfies PAF or not is to be seen. Then if they go for western radar what will they go for? What implications will it have on weapons integration of FC20? We really have to wait and see. Though i have to say , I cant wait to see it in PAF colours either !!!!!
WaSalam
Araz

 

[araz]

If you accept yourself as NOT a guru, then how can you say that they are altered ?

Or do we need a guru to tell us that ?

AjnabiZ
If I were you i would listen to Munir. He is a senior member with a very keen eye. You never know you might learn something!!! I certainly do!!
WaSalam
Araz

 

[araz]

Thanks Araz Saheb. Are you sure he is my course/badgemate? Give me more info about him. Alzheimer is probably setting in and I have trouble remembering sometimes. I will be glad to talk to him.
Best regards. I am enjoying this forum and will inshallah contribute in future.
Regards/

Pshamim Saheb.
I have Pmed you in this regards.
With regards to FC20, one of the questions raised which has irked a lot of us is why would they change the Chin inlet to a DSI inlet when the plane is performing satifactorily on the former. i would love to hear your and senior members views on this matter.
waSalam
Araz

 

[Kharian_Beast]

My friend.
I would hold back on the enthusiasm. We have all been excited and disappointed whaen these snaps turned out to be CGs . Secondly what is more importat is what is not revealed,ie engine, avionics compatibility with western missiles, Sino missile development. There are so many imponderables. All that I say is wait till some more news comes out.
For instance although i hate the Chin inlet cosmetically, why would you change it to a DSI inlet? especially when the plane performs well on the inlet. If I remember correctly, no plane with DSI can go Mach 2+(although you can correct me if i am wrong). So you may be decreasing the planes speed with out any significant gains.
I am sure by the time it comes into PAFs hand it would be a fantastic plane, but PAF has been talking about a non chinese avionics suite and radar. Whether the chinese progress in Radar and avionics satisfies PAF or not is to be seen. Then if they go for western radar what will they go for? What implications will it have on weapons integration of FC20? We really have to wait and see. Though i have to say , I cant wait to see it in PAF colours either !!!!!
WaSalam
Araz

Wise Araz,

You are correct in a sense and I do see where you are coming from, in fact it was the first line of thinking I adopted when I saw this thread. However we must not forget that there are well placed reports of J-10B testing and evaluation trials along with a report that declared the prototype of J-10B to have been completed a few months back, and even if these pictures are faker than silicone, they still give us a rough idea possibly the best visual representation of what to expect, and since FC-20 is far from fantasy, the pictures do not represent something off topic or blatant attempts at causing false alarms and unneccessary excitement as I see it.

Regarding the radar and avionics, I think PAF wouldn't have too much of a problem going with an entirely Chinese approach if Western equipment would be made unavailable for us, as in the case of initial batches JF-17. Same could apply for missiles, although PAF has a wide variety in this case to choose from.

Yes DSI intake would be less useful at speeds past mach 2 though there would be effective methods of attack to make up for this shortcoming taught to the pilots (with every aircraft there are some maneuvres you avoid and others that you utilize when you are engaging targets). Despite this, it would not compromise top speed capabilities of the aircraft in any way, and in fact it would aid in maneuvrability at higher speeds. Also it would reduce flutter problems when attacking from high angles along with reducing RCS.

For general overview, let me quote from a friend :

DSI stands for Divertless Supersonic Intakes. The bumps seen at the intakes are litterally called Bumps. At high aircraft speeds through supersonic, the bumps work with forward-swept inlet cowls to redirect unwanted boundary layer airflow away from the inlets, essentially doing the job of heavier, more complex, and more costly approaches used by current fighters. It proved to save significant weight, reduce RCS by concealing the engine's fans which generate most of the RCS when searching from the front. It improves performances both when supersonic and subsonic. The DSI bump functions as a compression surface and creates a pressure distribution that prevents the majority of the boundary layer air from entering the inlet at speeds up to Mach 2. In essence, the DSI does away with complex and heavy mechanical systems.

technicians inspecting DSI intake on J-10B :

 

[spurdozer]

Araz saheb, J-10 might look like this

 

[Neo]

Pshamim Saheb.
I have Pmed you in this regards.
With regards to FC20, one of the questions raised which has irked a lot of us is why would they change the Chin inlet to a DSI inlet when the plane is performing satifactorily on the former. i would love to hear your and senior members views on this matter.
waSalam
Araz

Sir,

DSI intakes reduce weight, costs and complexity while improving performance. The intake reduces one of the three major forward scatters of an aircraft that typically represents between 30%-35% of the RCS of an aircraft. The technology has successfully been tested on JF-17 and would boost FC-20's performance.

 

[Quwa]

Pictures have also been posted on this site:

Chinese Military Aviation

 

[Munir]

The background is green... Yet the almost dark and huge fin suddenly becomes a shade that only can be seen by concentration and focus? I think it is obvious that you want it to see and I just want ot be sure whether it is correct.

 

[pshamim]

Sir,

DSI intakes reduce weight, costs and complexity while improving performance. The intake reduces one of the three major forward scatters of an aircraft that typically represents between 30%-35% of the RCS of an aircraft. The technology has successfully been tested on JF-17 and would boost FC-20's performance.

Good answer. Let me also add a little bit more information on DSI. This technology was first tested on F-16 and it really created unbelievable results which were later introduced on F-35.

When flying at high to supersonic speeds, aircrafts use heavy and expensive equipment/approaches to divert the unwanted boundry layer airflow. This is easily achieved by using the DSI. This approach is neith costly nor increases the weight. DSI works with the forward swept inclet cowls and redirects the unwanted airflow away.

Lockheed Martin tested this approach with F-16 . They tested the clearnce and functional checks as well as the performance checks at very high speeds, low speeds, using after burners, turning off engine and restart during flight, Engine restarted every time after switch off and restart and never stalled. DSI also made a huge difference in speed and Mach2 was achieved.
Performance anf functional enhancements also contributed to lessening the TBO.

Hope this helps understand why Pakistan needs the best performing aircrafts at fraction of the cost. It is a smart approach.

 

[mean_bird]

This technology was first tested on F-16 and it really created unbelievable results which were later introduced on F-35.

...
DSI also made a huge difference in speed and Mach2 was achieved.

a quick question shamim sahib,

- Why later block or later manufactured F-16s do not use DSI?

I suppose because F-16 program is coming to a close and its costly to change the assembly line when you are thinking of stopping the assembly line anyway. Is this thinking true?

 

[pshamim]

a quick question shamim sahib,

- Why later block or later manufactured F-16s do not use DSI?

I suppose because F-16 program is coming to a close and its costly to change the assembly line when you are thinking of stopping the assembly line anyway. Is this thinking true?

Correct. It does mean impacting aircraft's forebody and center fuselage as well redesigning of weapons bay etc. And that can be really costly. In case of F-16 the DSI was tested by making changes on a single F-16 Block-30 aircraft and then klessons learned were incorporated in the design of the JSF from the very beginning.

 

[Quwa]

Seeing the new F-15SE...is it theoretically possible to have a future J-10/FC-20 with internal payload?

 

[mean_bird]

that would require a significant leap in technological advancement by china and also a RAM coating for without that, there is hardly any significantly more stealth.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Seeing the new F-15SE...is it theoretically possible to have a future J-10/FC-20 with internal payload?

Theoretically yes, and I will agree with mean bird that China would have to step up in the R&D department though I have read reports of China making significant breakthroughs in stealth technology including radar absorbent material which they had been working on since presumably the late 90s. Not sure about the CFT with internal weapons capability as this is brand spanking new technology though in theory nothing is impossible.