Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[fatman17]

One J-10B prototype has been tested with a version of the Shenyang-Liming WS-10A turbofan. This fighter may be the basis for the “FC-20” version expected to be purchased by Pakistan.

quoted from hasnains article above, further proof that PAF is waiting for the chinese powerplant to mature before it orders the J-10B.

 

[araz]

One J-10B prototype has been tested with a version of the Shenyang-Liming WS-10A turbofan. This fighter may be the basis for the “FC-20” version expected to be purchased by Pakistan.

quoted from hasnains article above, further proof that PAF is waiting for the chinese powerplant to mature before it orders the J-10B.

I think the prospect of sales as well as the necessity and safety of own power plant are important factors driving the effort ot develop the WS10and ws13.
Araz

 

[PakShaheen79]

however done that PS job he did it well

 

[killerx]

why wikipedia is showing the version pakistan is buying from china is J10A and alot of errors on JF17 info to like speed 1.6 it should be 1.8

 

[SBD-3]

why wikipedia is showing the version pakistan is buying from china is J10A and alot of errors on JF17 info to like speed 1.6 it should be 1.8

What an innocent question.....why do you guys always run to wikipedia when we have 10000+ posts in this thread on the topic and have a whole information pool thread on JFT?

 

[Farooqi1]

Hasan or some other senior members

You being a senior member can you help me out to start a new thread or start this Thread yourself. Putin's Upcoming visit of Pakistan. We should ask for defense help especially in Airforce. We should ask for SU35 . (It is time to get out of this single engine nonsense) Also it is time to get out of US and Wests influence and we should not repeat the mistake of Liquat Ali Khan. It is a distinct possibility but I believe we should maximize Russian President's trip to Pakistan. Hey I even believe we should offer our apology to Russia for our role in Afghan conflict. We did nothing but ruined our country.

I don't know where to post these topics and how to start a thread. But i would appreciate your help

 

[IceCold]

One J-10B prototype has been tested with a version of the Shenyang-Liming WS-10A turbofan. This fighter may be the basis for the “FC-20” version expected to be purchased by Pakistan.

quoted from hasnains article above, further proof that PAF is waiting for the chinese powerplant to mature before it orders the J-10B.

Just one question how long do you think PAF should wait after which it wouldn't even matter if we buy J-10 or not.

 

[SBD-3]

Hasan or some other senior members

You being a senior member can you help me out to start a new thread or start this Thread yourself. Putin's Upcoming visit of Pakistan. We should ask for defense help especially in Airforce. We should ask for SU35 . (It is time to get out of this single engine nonsense) Also it is time to get out of US and Wests influence and we should not repeat the mistake of Liquat Ali Khan. It is a distinct possibility but I believe we should maximize Russian President's trip to Pakistan. Hey I even believe we should offer our apology to Russia for our role in Afghan conflict. We did nothing but ruined our country.

I don't know where to post these topics and how to start a thread. But i would appreciate your help

There is no single engine nonsense kind of stuff. A fighter procurement decision is not like buying a car or a bike. There are many factors needing a consideration, aside from the platform itself, when a procurment decision is to be made. For example, a significant cost is the setting up of infrastructure for maintainence which needs not only a comprehensive training program for personnel but also the industrial/electronic facilities to maintain the aircraft.In fact, this factor is increasingly becoming more important in military procurments since the militaries accross the globe face strains on their budgets. Why PAF selected F-16s over Grippens? the same factor emerged as an important consideration in decision. Moreover, F-16s offer impressive TWR and load carring capabilities in single engine so does the JFT. In today's technologically driven world, weapons are becoming lighter and smarter with every passing month (Recently US Army has deployed guided precision rockets who would replace the venerable Hellfire- the rocket carries a 4Kg warhead vis-a-vis 21Kg that of hellfire and is almost 10 times more economical, More suitable for engaging targets with minimum collteral damage). The heavier fighters carry two engines for making up for their increased baseline weight and to support heavy loads. Had twin engine been the name of the game, USAF would not have been operating 2000+ single engine F-16s being deployed extensively throughout the world. It would not have been the single most evloved design (like Mig-21). F-16 has all the capabilities (in fact it exceeds in most of the cases) that a double engine fighter would offer. So airforces with size incorporated in war docrtine go for dual engines while the airforces concentrating on capabilities go for capabilities rather than structure.

Just one question how long do you think PAF should wait after which it wouldn't even matter if we buy J-10 or not.

As long as it can....
1-Given the security situation remains calm
2-The design is mature enough for her requirements.
If you remembered, when tesion between US-Pak relationships escalated in the aftermath of OBL raid, the procurement of 50JFTs on emergency basis was declared since the security situation required credible deterent in quick time. However, since the waters became clam thereafter, the decision would have been changed for routine induction along the path of evoluation.

 

[IceCold]

As long as it can....
1-Given the security situation remains calm
2-The design is mature enough for her requirements.
If you remembered, when tesion between US-Pak relationships escalated in the aftermath of OBL raid, the procurement of 50JFTs on emergency basis was declared since the security situation required credible deterent in quick time. However, since the waters became clam thereafter, the decision would have been changed for routine induction along the path of evoluation.

That might be the case but do keep in mind that any platform requires years of training to fully master and harness its capabilities. Even if we do get on emergency basis, will it serve any purpose.

JF-17 we already have and our pilots are constantly training on it, we have developed the infrastructure for the jet, we can easily absorb more, but will the case be same for J-10, hence my initial question.

 

[SBD-3]

That might be the case but do keep in mind that any platform requires years of training to fully master and harness its capabilities. Even if we do get on emergency basis, will it serve any purpose.

JF-17 we already have and our pilots are constantly training on it, we have developed the infrastructure for the jet, we can easily absorb more, but will the case be same for J-10, hence my initial question.

EagleHannan once said that there were two evaluation teams working in Chendu over J-10 project, 1)PLAAF evaluation team 2)PAF evaluation team. In fact, a while ago, there was an interview released of a PAF pilot about his experience on J-10.

 

[fatman17]

Just one question how long do you think PAF should wait after which it wouldn't even matter if we buy J-10 or not.

once the JF-17 is fully integrated meaning 150 examples, would the PAF start looking at the J-10B, so around 2014-16 window, same time as india MMRCA.

 

[Farooqi1]

Hassan

You are absolutely right but somehow my un- scientific mind can not comprehend that how an F-16 (which we have in limited quantities and would not get more given the US back stabing policies) and JFT can defend against more powerfull twine engine aircrafts. I know it will be expensive to have twine engine fighters but nothing more important then the defense of our motherland.

Following is a quote from another posters comments which describe my own feelings and thoughts

"If Pakistan has sensible, literate and intelligent Air Command it should realise by now that real threat can not only come from the Eastern border but is more dangerously present now at the Western front as far West as Israel or more given the aggressive and hostile military presence of USA and NATO and subversive Israeli MOSSAD presence inside Pakistan.

Pakistan can no longer afford to invest in antiquated stupid but expensive war toys like the F-16 (intelligently rejected by India) with built in tracer bugs and kill buttons and the badly designed overweight JF-17 with Russian under-powered smoky engine.

If it is serious, given the current and the developing defence panorama Pakistan now needs a truly lethal multi-range multi-role Air Force equipped with up to date air craft like F-15, F-18, Eurofighter, Rafale, MIG-31, MIG-35, SU-27, etc., and not more junk like J-10B with very limited capabilities to meet Pakistan EAST-WEST-NORTH-SOUTH increasingly war-prone requirements."

I can't believe that Air Forces of Indonesia, Venezuela and Uganda even have SU30s and what we got?


Instead of 250 JFT and 150 J10B, I would rather have 36 Su30 or SU35 and 36 J11bs. 100 JFT and 36 J10b along with 36 SU 30 and 36 J11b may just cost us the same amount of money but would give us parity (not in numbers but in technology and capabilities) with the modern Air Forces in our region.

And please no more nuclear deterrent. We have enough of that. I beleive God has provided us a chance in the form of Putins visit and we should take advantage of it. Just my opinion.

In my last trip back home (February this year) I had the privilege of meeting and talking to a fine brave pilot of PAF and believe me as per that fine young man morals are down. And I don't blame him. I mean no matter how good of a shooter you are, you don't have much of chance if you only have 9mm Glock and your opposition have a machine gun.

I am requesting all the forum members to think about it. And let us start a campaign and do what ever we can in our capacity. Write letters emails to PAF and Government etc. May Allaha make us realise that what needed to be done. Nothing is impossible. We just need to believe and do the right thing.

 

[fatman17]

Wednesday, May 02, 2012

No typo, J-16 is the Chinese Strike Flanker, Su30 MK2

Source: Chinese Navy Commissioned Copy of Russian Fighter


China demonstrated fighter J16 to the press at aircraft factory Shenyang Aircraft Co; it is a copy of Russian Su-30MK2, reports Hong Kong military magazine Kanwa referring to a Chinese authoritative military source.

This airplane is a copy of Russian fighter Su-30MK2, the batch of them was sold to China early in 2000's, reports Interfax citing the source.

According to the magazine, Chinese Navy is quite satisfied with performance characteristics of Su-30MK2 fighter. The military asked the Shenyang aircraft factory to copy that fighter with antiship capabilities adapted for Chinese-made missiles. Basically, the fuselage remained the same as J11BS airplane has, said the source.

The magazine reports that the first batch of 24 fighters J16 had been already constructed.

Since early 2010, Chinese Navy began to receive the first batch of domestically-designed multirole all-weather fighters J10A which significantly increased technological level of Chinese Navy, reports Kanwa.

The Chinese military source told to the magazine that "national air force has not received 'cloned' Su-30MK2 yet. Normally, Chinese Navy gets new fighters first. For example, two-seat fighter bomber JH7 joined Air Force only after commissioning into the Navy".

 

[abdulbarijan]

Hassan

You are absolutely right but somehow my un- scientific mind can not comprehend that how an F-16 (which we have in limited quantities and would not get more given the US back stabing policies) and JFT can defend against more powerfull twine engine aircrafts. I know it will be expensive to have twine engine fighters but nothing more important then the defense of our motherland.

Following is a quote from another posters comments which describe my own feelings and thoughts

"If Pakistan has sensible, literate and intelligent Air Command it should realise by now that real threat can not only come from the Eastern border but is more dangerously present now at the Western front as far West as Israel or more given the aggressive and hostile military presence of USA and NATO and subversive Israeli MOSSAD presence inside Pakistan.

Pakistan can no longer afford to invest in antiquated stupid but expensive war toys like the F-16 (intelligently rejected by India) with built in tracer bugs and kill buttons and the badly designed overweight JF-17 with Russian under-powered smoky engine.

If it is serious, given the current and the developing defence panorama Pakistan now needs a truly lethal multi-range multi-role Air Force equipped with up to date air craft like F-15, F-18, Eurofighter, Rafale, MIG-31, MIG-35, SU-27, etc., and not more junk like J-10B with very limited capabilities to meet Pakistan EAST-WEST-NORTH-SOUTH increasingly war-prone requirements."

I can't believe that Air Forces of Indonesia, Venezuela and Uganda even have SU30s and what we got?


Instead of 250 JFT and 150 J10B, I would rather have 36 Su30 or SU35 and 36 J11bs. 100 JFT and 36 J10b along with 36 SU 30 and 36 J11b may just cost us the same amount of money but would give us parity (not in numbers but in technology and capabilities) with the modern Air Forces in our region.

And please no more nuclear deterrent. We have enough of that. I beleive God has provided us a chance in the form of Putins visit and we should take advantage of it. Just my opinion.

In my last trip back home (February this year) I had the privilege of meeting and talking to a fine brave pilot of PAF and believe me as per that fine young man morals are down. And I don't blame him. I mean no matter how good of a shooter you are, you don't have much of chance if you only have 9mm Glock and your opposition have a machine gun.

I am requesting all the forum members to think about it. And let us start a campaign and do what ever we can in our capacity. Write letters emails to PAF and Government etc. May Allaha make us realise that what needed to be done. Nothing is impossible. We just need to believe and do the right thing.

This post of yours indicates of a person's personal preferences, because he wants twin engined aircrafts and considers every thing single engined to be junk...

Lets look at his options..
every thing like
- rafale (we were screwed by the french in JFT avionics deal)
- typhoon (can we afford it)
- F-18,F-15 (wouldn't they have the same "kill switches" genius man)
- Russian fighters (nothing short of taking a huge risk cuz of Indo-Russian friendship )

Then the guy says JF-17 is an overweight underpowered badly designed aircraft...

-which is precisely why it beat the holy hell out of the aircraft in WVR which was at the time our best (F-16 A/B)
-A late pilot of JF-17 (dont remember his name) is also on quote of saying T/W ratio is over 1
-Then u had the kilmov poster claiming near 98 KN of thrust for the so called under powered engine

-So are the SU-30's that badass of an aircraft....hmm lets see here is a basic contradiction in all this

-The guy says that our threat is more from USA/NATO so let me ask this

"Can 30/35 SU-30's or even SU-35's can do something against a fleet of thousands of aircrafts from NATo/US that can match it capability wise and technology wise??"

then he goes about saying J-10B is junk well the same junk (infact inferior junk J-10A) was whooping SU-27/ J-11's arse in exercises which the poster himself recommended that we should get....

So basically the entire conclusion is

New twin engined aircrafts for the poster u quoted are like a wet dream and he will step over every line , even reasoning to write in favor of them neglecting every constraint like cost and sanction prone and all....

 

[Windjammer]

China has officially pitched it's Chengdu J-10 fighter to Pakistan. The Pakistan Army Chief of General Staff was reportedly offered the fighter during a visit to China. A Pakistani delegation made a previous visit to the J-10 production line in 2006. In the same year, the government approved a purchase of 36 examples of the FC-20, a variant proposed for the PAF.

Source: Combat Aircraft.