Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[rockstarIN]

Would like to know, if JF-17 or J-10 participated any of the air combat excercises against other air forces? If yes, what is the opinion from the enemy pilots please.

 

[General General]

As far as I know, they still haven't taken part in any exercise. The J 10a has taken part in exibitions, but that's all (we know). As for JF 17, it still has to be fully integrated into the Pakistan Air Force, besides, the first 50 will be a very basic version of the aircraft. The next batch will be an evolved version that will integrate European and possibly American tech.

 

[rockstarIN]

As far as I know, they still haven't taken part in any exercise. The J 10a has taken part in exibitions, but that's all (we know). As for JF 17, it still has to be fully integrated into the Pakistan Air Force, besides, the first 50 will be a very basic version of the aircraft. The next batch will be an evolved version that will integrate European and possibly American tech.

Yet to tested against other AFs then,

When will the JF-17 new version will be operational with PAF?

 

[General General]

As far as I have learned, the JF 17 will be divided into blocks of 50, each one more advanced than the last. Finishing at a (yet unconfirmed) stealth(y) version, equalent to f-15 Silent Eagle. The JF-17 project will last till 2025. So, we might expect the Pakistan Air Force to come out with the next version of the aircraft within 3-5 years. Ofcourse it all depends upon the political and economic situation of the country. They won't exactly be announcing multi-billion dollar deals for radars and missiles when the country is facing its worst disaster.
Comming back to the topic, as far as I can decipher the intentions of the PAF chief, he does not seem very enthusiastic about thrust vectoring technology for his air force. He did say that TV is not very useful in modern long-range BVRM air missions of today, however he mentioned it was useful in dodging an incoming missile. Which makes me wonder if the new TV engines being developed and tested on J-10, are for the Chinese 10B or the Pakistani FC-20.

 

[Donatello]

As far as I have learned, the JF 17 will be divided into blocks of 50, each one more advanced than the last. Finishing at a (yet unconfirmed) stealth(y) version, equalent to f-15 Silent Eagle. The JF-17 project will last till 2025. So, we might expect the Pakistan Air Force to come out with the next version of the aircraft within 3-5 years. Ofcourse it all depends upon the political and economic situation of the country. They won't exactly be announcing multi-billion dollar deals for radars and missiles when the country is facing its worst disaster.
Comming back to the topic, as far as I can decipher the intentions of the PAF chief, he does not seem very enthusiastic about thrust vectoring technology for his air force. He did say that TV is not very useful in modern long-range BVRM air missions of today, however he mentioned it was useful in dodging an incoming missile. Which makes me wonder if the new TV engines being developed and tested on J-10, are for the Chinese 10B or the Pakistani FC-20.

Sir jee, TVC for Single Engine fighter jets is still a new concept. You really need to take into account the complexity of TVC on single engine jets as they are primarily made around the engine it self.

Mig 35, SU 30, F/A22 all are two engine jets where the jet is more balanced.

However, NASA experimented with X-31 for years....look here...

Rockwell-MBB X-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also, some good read on F-16 forums..

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-11016.html



In anycase, modern AAMs can turn at upwards of 20Gs, way more than what a jet can handle and even if it did, the pilot won't.

Yes TVC might have advantage in dog fights, but that has yet to be seen in a full combat.

I don't know why JF-17 would be made more complex by adding TVC. The whole concept is of having a flexible cheap fighter.

We have J-10 for heavy roles.....lets see.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Sir jee, TVC for Single Engine fighter jets is still a new concept. You really need to take into account the complexity of TVC on single engine jets as they are primarily made around the engine it self.

Mig 35, SU 30, F/A22 all are two engine jets where the jet is more balanced.

However, NASA experimented with X-31 for years....look here...

Rockwell-MBB X-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also, some good read on F-16 forums..

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-11016.html



In anycase, modern AAMs can turn at upwards of 20Gs, way more than what a jet can handle and even if it did, the pilot won't.

Yes TVC might have advantage in dog fights, but that has yet to be seen in a full combat.

I don't know why JF-17 would be made more complex by adding TVC. The whole concept is of having a flexible cheap fighter.

We have J-10 for heavy roles.....lets see.

Agreed. Adding TVC to J-10 might also be redundant since the delta-canard airframe already provides sufficient manueverability. I think the priority should be developing a more powerful, reliable engine.

 

[Kompromat]

TVC is good but JHMCS makes it almost worthless , we should bring in such a great system for JFT and FC-20.

 

[General General]

Sir jee, TVC for Single Engine fighter jets is still a new concept. You really need to take into account the complexity of TVC on single engine jets as they are primarily made around the engine it self.

Mig 35, SU 30, F/A22 all are two engine jets where the jet is more balanced.

However, NASA experimented with X-31 for years....look here...

Rockwell-MBB X-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also, some good read on F-16 forums..

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-11016.html



In anycase, modern AAMs can turn at upwards of 20Gs, way more than what a jet can handle and even if it did, the pilot won't.

Yes TVC might have advantage in dog fights, but that has yet to be seen in a full combat.

I don't know why JF-17 would be made more complex by adding TVC. The whole concept is of having a flexible cheap fighter.

We have J-10 for heavy roles.....lets see.

I'd like you point out where, in my post, did I say that TV was an option for the JF-17? I was refering to the J-10. Chinese are in the process of manufacturing WS 10A engine for the new versions of J-10. It is already being powered by the AL-31 engine. The same engine, but different variant, is used on SU 30MKI and has TV. TV is not only used in manuverability, but for short take-off and landings. For more information on the Chinese plans on introducing TV on J-10, look here:International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Chinese Dimensions of the 2005 Moscow Aerospace Show

 

[Jungibaaz]

TVC is good but JHMCS makes it almost worthless , we should bring in such a great system for JFT and FC-20.

Agreed, I prefer JHMCS over TVC.

JHMCS + a 5th gen WVRAAM such as the aim-9x will give our fighters the upper hand in dogfighting.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Would like to know, if JF-17 or J-10 participated any of the air combat excercises against other air forces? If yes, what is the opinion from the enemy pilots please.

I think the J-10 has participated in domestic air fights with the Su-27 and Su-30 before.

 

[SBD-3]

I think the J-10 has participated in domestic air fights with the Su-27 and Su-30 before.

what he is referring to is international or joint excercises

 

[mjnaushad]

Would like to know, if JF-17 or J-10 participated any of the air combat excercises against other air forces? If yes, what is the opinion from the enemy pilots please.

Not Internationally but locally JF 17 beat old F 16 many times in dog fights.....

Not to forget F 16 BLK 15 are more manuverable then newer version (Correct me if i am wrong)

 

[WAQAS119]

I'd like you point out where, in my post, did I say that TV was an option for the JF-17? I was refering to the J-10. Chinese are in the process of manufacturing WS 10A engine for the new versions of J-10. It is already being powered by the AL-31 engine. The same engine, but different variant, is used on SU 30MKI and has TV. TV is not only used in manuverability, but for short take-off and landings. For more information on the Chinese plans on introducing TV on J-10, look here:International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Chinese Dimensions of the 2005 Moscow Aerospace Show

I don't think J10 be having TVC! With its complex design (especially canards) will make life worse for it. Not only it will make handling difficult but also cause extraordinary stress on its structure. Article, you have provided, is too much speculative.

 

[siegecrossbow]

what he is referring to is international or joint excercises

The thing is China will never dare to have international exercises. Not when everyone starts shouting "OMG the warmongering Chinese are planning to take over Asia" every time we dig an irrigation canal.

 

[rockstarIN]

The thing is China will never dare to have international exercises. Not when everyone starts shouting "OMG the warmongering Chinese are planning to take over Asia" every time we dig an irrigation canal.

What is the reason Y China Air Force not conducting joint exercise even with PAF?