Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Windjammer]

I wonder if we should make a J-10C thread on PAF section too?
@Windjammer @waz @Zarvan

Sir Ji,.....Engagement, Wedding and then Walima.... let's not rob the Imam performing the Nikah to make the announcement of.....Mubarak Ho......Then just watch the party.

 

[LKJ86]

J-10C

 

[LKJ86]

J-10C

Via @ 空军新闻 from Weixin

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sorry again to be cautious, but "many sources have told ..." this and that since years and nothing happened and concerning these "so many J-10Cs lining up outside the Chinese aeroplane factory", they are by all we know from the latest news gone and none went to Pakistan.

As such I would agree with @Zarvan, when we finally see a J-10C in PAF colours or either the PAF, CAC or any official source confirms this deal, then we should open a new thread.

thats what I mean so say. they are just my personal sources with a word of mouth and speculations based on {AF deputations. then there are some other related coincidences they may mean something or nothing.
.

Sir Ji,.....Engagement, Wedding and then Walima.... let's not rob the Imam performing the Nikah to make the announcement of.....Mubarak Ho......Then just watch the party.

I am concerned about the PAF pilots returning home. it makes sense to get them individual jets due to Covid issues thats all. they can come in JF-17 but if there are other jets also parked idly outside Chinese factories then they can come "handy" too.

 

[StormBreaker]

thats what I mean so say. they are just my personal sources with a word of mouth and speculations based on {AF deputations. then there are some other related coincidences they may mean something or nothing.
.

I am concerned about the PAF pilots returning home. it makes sense to get them individual jets due to Covid issues thats all. they can come in JF-17 but if there are other jets also parked idly outside Chinese factories then they can come "handy" too.

So many keyboard keys have been wasted, playing with the feelings of “Mazlooms”. You, @The Eagle , @Hodor , @kursed , @Tipu7 , Allah pooche ha ap logon ko bari fursat se.

@Zarvan aur hum jaise ahmak log bewaqoofon ki tarah intezar karte rehte hain apne karan arjun ka.

 

[Zarvan]

So many keyboard keys have been wasted, playing with the feelings of “Mazlooms”. You, @The Eagle , @Hodor , @kursed , @Tipu7 , Allah pooche ha ap logon ko bari fursat se.

@Zarvan aur hum jaise ahmak log bewaqoofon ki tarah intezar karte rehte hain apne karan arjun ka.

Hopefully the weight won't be long this time.

 

[kungfugymnast]

I wonder if we should make a J-10C thread on PAF section too?
@Windjammer @waz @Zarvan

Sure, why not? Put it as J-10CE for the export variant powered by WS-10B with TVC optional to counter threat from Rafale. Will CAIC replace some of the pylons in J-10CE with air to air missiles compatible pylons? Export market version would require J-10CE for air to air roles unlike PLAAF requirements towards air to ground search & destroy. J-10CE would be best if it could carry 8 air to air missiles without twin racks to counter enemy fighters such as Rafale and F/A-18E capable of carrying 10 air to air missiles.

 

[kungfugymnast]

Hopefully the weight won't be long this time.

Military marketing won't be long wait, they will come with their products for demonstration and convince PAF to buy. It's not just about making money but to get combat proven if more tea being served which would give positive reputation to CAIC. CAIC will get more potential customers if their weapons proven useful in return of supplying J-10CE to PAF at bargain price. Win win solution for both.

J-10CE vs Rafale, the J-10CE with TVC will definitely superior in dogfight. In BVR, the J-10CE fitted with large AESA radar has the longer search and track range. J-10CE with larger internal fuel 14,000lb estimate has better combat radius than Rafale. PAF would need the J-10CE for air to air role, let's wait and see whether CAIC would make changes to pylons to fit at least 8 air to air missiles removing the ability to carry large 500gal fuel tank or 2000lb bomb underwing. The fuselage 4 pylons could be changed to missile rails for 2 more PL-12/15, total 2x PL-10E & 6x PL-12/15.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Military marketing won't be long wait, they will come with their products for demonstration and convince PAF to buy. It's not just about making money but to get combat proven if more tea being served which would give positive reputation to CAIC. CAIC will get more potential customers if their weapons proven useful in return of supplying J-10CE to PAF at bargain price. Win win solution for both.

J-10CE vs Rafale, the J-10CE with TVC will definitely superior in dogfight. In BVR, the J-10CE fitted with large AESA radar has the longer search and track range. J-10CE with larger internal fuel 14,000lb estimate has better combat radius than Rafale. PAF would need the J-10CE for air to air role, let's wait and see whether CAIC would make changes to pylons to fit at least 8 air to air missiles removing the ability to carry large 500gal fuel tank or 2000lb bomb underwing. The fuselage 4 pylons could be changed to missile rails for 2 more PL-12/15, total 2x PL-10E & 6x PL-12/15.

J-10CE doesn't have TVC.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I have only heard of heavy weights and long waits

Hopefully the weight won't be long this time.

 

[kungfugymnast]

J-10CE doesn't have TVC.

It depends on how much China willing to offer PAF in order to get combat proven, China's best chance to test their aerial weapons against western weapons. PAF is often at risk of IAF intrusion and attack. Both Su-30MKI & Rafale are deadly in dogfight, if PAF J-10CE fitted with TVC would give it higher chance of winning. Also PAF fighters would always be outnumbered and they'll definitely need more missiles, at least 8 on J-10CE.

BVR missile effective range on specification at 40, 60, 80nm are achieved with launcher at high altitude and speed hitting a target flying towards shooter. In reality from US & NATO aerial combat, longest range hit was done by AIM-120C hitting an unarmed enemy transport without proper RWR at 40 miles. Engagement at sea level would greatly reduce missile range. Enemy fighter low RCS, enemy switching on ECM would reduce missile effective range further. Enemy fighters on terrain masking especially hilly mountainous ravine area would hide from detection. This explains why most of the BVR missiles were launched below 25 miles with AIM-120 & AIM-7 being launched in dogfight range.

If enemy rafale having 10 missiles vs J-10CE with just 4-6 missiles, the Rafale would have extra missiles to waste launching 1x meteor at 40 miles then 2x at 25 miles. Don't mind wasting super expensive meteor or US$380k AIM-120C7 as long as it could save shooter from getting killed. J-10CE if outnumbered will have to use chicken run evasive tactic before could use its missiles wisely. Active radar missiles are on semi active above 10 miles requiring shooter's radar guidance. Tracking lost if shooter perform evasive maneuver getting off radar tracking angle when enemy missile getting close first.

If both fighters managed to spoof incoming missiles at this point will get into visual range engagement & dogfight. The 1 with more missiles left will be at advantage while the 1 out of missile will switch to gun and hope there's no 2nd enemy fighter around.

 

[Deino]

It depends on how much China willing to offer PAF in order to get combat proven, China's best chance to test their aerial weapons against western weapons. PAF is often at risk of IAF intrusion and attack. Both Su-30MKI & Rafale are deadly in dogfight, if PAF J-10CE fitted with TVC would give it higher chance of winning. Also PAF fighters would always be outnumbered and they'll definitely need more missiles, at least 8 on J-10CE.

BVR missile effective range on specification at 40, 60, 80nm are achieved with launcher at high altitude and speed hitting a target flying towards shooter. In reality from US & NATO aerial combat, longest range hit was done by AIM-120C hitting an unarmed enemy transport without proper RWR at 40 miles. Engagement at sea level would greatly reduce missile range. Enemy fighter low RCS, enemy switching on ECM would reduce missile effective range further. Enemy fighters on terrain masking especially hilly mountainous ravine area would hide from detection. This explains why most of the BVR missiles were launched below 25 miles with AIM-120 & AIM-7 being launched in dogfight range.

If enemy rafale having 10 missiles vs J-10CE with just 4-6 missiles, the Rafale would have extra missiles to waste launching 1x meteor at 40 miles then 2x at 25 miles. Don't mind wasting super expensive meteor or US$380k AIM-120C7 as long as it could save shooter from getting killed. J-10CE if outnumbered will have to use chicken run evasive tactic before could use its missiles wisely. Active radar missiles are on semi active above 10 miles requiring shooter's radar guidance. Tracking lost if shooter perform evasive maneuver getting off radar tracking angle when enemy missile getting close first.

If both fighters managed to spoof incoming missiles at this point will get into visual range engagement & dogfight. The 1 with more missiles left will be at advantage while the 1 out of missile will switch to gun and hope there's no 2nd enemy fighter around.

Can again please spare us these endless lectures your understanding of aerial combat? Thsi is the J-10 thread and as long as the PAF does not have it confirmed, I see no reason for a new thread even lesser here in this section. We already have such speculative threads in the PAF section.

But here concentrate on the J-10 in PLAAF service and not why it might be a good choice for Paksitan or its eventual benefits against the Rafale.

 

[kungfugymnast]

Can again please spare us these endless lectures your understanding of aerial combat? Thsi is the J-10 thread and as long as the PAF does not have it confirmed, I see no reason for a new thread even lesser here in this section. We already have such speculative threads in the PAF section.

But here concentrate on the J-10 in PLAAF service and not why it might be a good choice for Paksitan or its eventual benefits against the Rafale.

Since you're in Germany, it shouldn't be difficult for you to ask Luftwaffe's pilots that operate European, US and Russian fighters on how air to air works. They have knowledge on Tornado ADV (phasing out), EF2000, Mig-29S, EF-18G, F/A-18E and retired F-4F. Ask them, meet the real fighter pilots and you would eventually agree with me on how air to air combat, electronic warfare works. This is your assignment and if you're real military fans, I don't see the reason why you don't want to know more. Some users here don't even get such chance. CAIC stated clearly they have J-10CE for export market and they sure find out their customers preference before selling.

 

[HRK]

@kungfugymnast if you are specifically talking about J-10CE in Pakistan context then you are slightly wrong we do not need an aircraft with 8 A2A missiles load out [4-6 BVR and 2-4 WVR missiles] what we need is an multi role fighter which should be more orientated towards the Strike Role so IMHO any aircraft with 2+2 A2A missiles with capability to carry +4 stand-off striking weapons will be suitable for our arising need to replace Mirage-III/V jets in PAF which lacks BVR capability which PAF use in strike role

So J-10C 'partially' fulfil our needs in its current configuration even without any enhancement with TVC engine or capability to carry additional BVRs.

I hope this will end the unnecessary argument between you and @Deino about tweaking or modifying J-10 for export in reference of Pakistan Air Force.

 

[LKJ86]

Via @牧星人拓拔尊 from Weibo