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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

too childish example, Chengdu developed with Chinese research the aircraft J-10 but in order to achieve a shorter development period, they took Lavi data, there were two versions of IAI Lavi each one with a different engine size, the bigger engine version got bigger tail and bigger ventral fins, J-10 has bigger engine thus bigger ventral fins than Lavi, regardless how you want to spin it, the J-10 main engineer went to Israel, the aircraft is not a 1 to 1 copy, but a design with its own requirements developed with IAI Lavi data and tech.

J-10 is a hybrid of Chinese technology, Israeli data and Russian aid, you might not like it, but the F-16 intake of IAI Lavi was on the mock up of 1991 of J-10, is J-10 a pure clon? no it is not, it is an evolution of Lavi? yes it is, a hybrid of several companies, sourced into a Chinese led project.

The simple one shock intake of F-16 was tested on J-10 as it was the boxy multi shock VG intake J-10 tested by IAI Lavi and on F-16 both types have advantages and disadvantages, the J-10 intake is better suit for fast acceleration and supersonic speeds, the mock up J-10 of 1991 with F-16 intake type is lighter thus easier to make, Chengdu re-took it on the DSI fitted J-10, aircraft study several dozens configurations before they freeze on a single one, your vision is not based as how aircraft are made.
So, in 1982, did Israel already know Lavi must fail before Lavi made its maiden flight?

And in 1982, why didn't PLAAF choose SAC's J-13, if China can't finish J-10 project by herself?
 
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So, in 1982, did Israel already know Lavi must fail before Lavi made its maiden flight?

And in 1982, why didn't PLAAF choose SAC's J-13, if China can't finish J-10 project by herself?
tell me what is doing J-10 main designing team besides a Lavi when it is know the US forbade re-export american tech to China after Tiananmen square, you lack common sense, for Chengdu design tean be around a Lavi was not allowed by USA companies like Grumman which was one of the main suppliers of Lavi
 
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@Su33KUB & others ....

Plaese, there is no need to constantly open up any speculations esp. by hiding it in dubious terms like "bigger and smaller" versions.

The development of the J-10 is so clearly confirmed, that there is no space left for arguing they took the Lavi, enlarged it or used a larger version, that's plain wrong.

The development of the J-10 went thru so many different configurations of the J-9 and final early J-10, so that it was externally de facto finished before the Lavi connection came in.

YES, there was an undeniable connection but most of all related to FCS, FBW and eventually refinements, but the J-10 is a J-10 and not a Lavi on steroids. Period.

The mots important changes as mentioned by @LKJ86 came with the change of the engine to the AL-31FN and consequently the introduction of a refined air intake, but these changes are in no way related to the Lavi.

Therefore, no-one denies that there was a certain Israeli involvement and that the J-10 gained some benefit from the Lavi but the J-10 is neither a Lavi-clone - even if some stupid guys still want to portray it that way - nor an enlarged Lavi mated with a Russian engine. That's wrong.

And therefore enough of this stupid endless discussion.
 
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@Su33KUB & others ....

Plaese, there is no need to constantly open up any speculations esp. by hiding it in dubious terms like "bigger and smaller" versions.

The development of the J-10 is so clearly confirmed, that there is no space left for arguing they took the Lavi, enlarged it or used a larger version, that's plain wrong.

The development of the J-10 went thru so many different configurations of the J-9 and final early J-10, so that it was externally de facto finished before the Lavi connection came in.

YES, there was an undeniable connection but most of all related to FCS, FBW and eventually refinements, but the J-10 is a J-10 and not a Lavi on steroids. Period.

The mots important changes as mentioned by @LKJ86 came with the change of the engine to the AL-31FN and consequently the introduction of a refined air intake, but these changes are in no way related to the Lavi.

Therefore, no-one denies that there was a certain Israeli involvement and that the J-10 gained some benefit from the Lavi but the J-10 is neither a Lavi-clone - even if some stupid guys still want to portray it that way - nor an enlarged Lavi mated with a Russian engine. That's wrong.

And therefore enough of this stupid endless discussion.
when you understand why J-10 has such ventral fins larger than IAI Lavi you will see there are aerodynamic connections, but i never said is a clone, I clearly said it is Chinese technology, since an aircraft has many equipment that requires many suppliers, but it has direct IAI input something even american and Russian sources said in the form of the karman wing trailing edge extensions that reduce drag and the ventral fins, it is not a clone but the input went into aerodynamics too since you can see the early configuration lack ventral fins and the karman wing trailing edge extensions, and in order to achieve the right size, position and shape or even the idea Chengdu needed hundred hours of research, something that will explain why Chengdu main designer was beside a IAI Lavi on a picture when obviously was not going for drinking tea since the IAI Lavi had several suppliers among one Grumman
 
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when you understand why J-10 has such ventral fins larger than IAI you will see there are aerodynamic connections, but i never said is a clon, I clearly said is is Chinese technology, since an aircraft has many equipment that requires many suppliers, but is has direct IAI input something even american and Russian sources said in the form of the karman wing trailing edge extensions that reduce drag and the ventral fins, it is not a clon but the input went into aerodynamics too since you can see the early configuration lack ventral fins and the karman wing trailing edge extensions, and in order to achieve the right size, position and shape or even the idea Chengdu needed hundred hours of research, something that will explain why Chengdu main designer was beside a IAI Lavi on a picture when obviously was not going for drinking tea since the IAI Lavi had several suppliers among one Grumman
There is a picture of PLAAF and F-22, and so what?
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There is a picture of PLAAF and F-22, and so what?
View attachment 574152
IAI Lavi had tech from Grumman and China is famous for copying from cars to Lavi, to American flags to Su-27s or you named piracy is a chinese cultural trait, they just renamed it. Speys engines later become domestic, same Russian engines same J-15 called chinese product what a joke for a reason Trump put tariffs
 
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It will make us very honored in China.:p:
a Pilot knows how fly aircraft, not make them, Cong knew how to build aircraft, in Israel spoke how to build them but still propaganda machines like you can not understand that difference, any way the Americans reported the Technology was passed and so the Russians, continue with your propaganda, J-10 has technology from Lavi from aerodynamics, flight control systems to avionics weapons and radar, because Israel was 2nd supplier to China of weapons and tech transfers in the 1990s and 2000s it is so lavi it carries copied clones of AAM Python AAMs and ventral fins like Lavi
 
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a Pilot knows how fly aircraft, not make them, Cong knew how to build aircraft, in Israel spoke how to build them but still propaganda machines like you can not understand that difference, any way the Americans reported the Technology was passed and so the Russians, continue with your propaganda, J-10 has technology from Lavi from aerodynamics, flight control systems to avionics weapons and radar, because Israel was 2nd supplier to China of weapons and tech transfers in the 1990s and 2000s it is so lavi it carries copied clones of AAM Python AAMs and ventral fins like Lavi
Many people like you can't accept the development of China, and maybe the theory of copying or stealing can make you more comfortable.

But it can't stop the development of China, and you will need more excuses to mesmerize yourself.

Enjoy your time.:-)
 
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or you named piracy is a chinese cultural trait, they just renamed it.
I love your attempts at flame baiting by inserting culture/race (both completely irrelevant) into a technical argument. If I am remember my history courses back in college, it was in fact the Westerners who stole Chinese technologies from silk production to paper making. If the Chinese have a "culture" of copying, then doesn't everyone in the Western world have that trait as well? Why should we treat different periods of time any differently?

a Pilot knows how fly aircraft, not make them, Cong knew how to build aircraft, in Israel spoke how to build them but still propaganda machines like you can not understand that difference, any way the Americans reported the Technology was passed and so the Russians, continue with your propaganda, J-10 has technology from Lavi from aerodynamics, flight control systems to avionics weapons and radar, because Israel was 2nd supplier to China of weapons and tech transfers in the 1990s and 2000s it is so lavi it carries copied clones of AAM Python AAMs and ventral fins like Lavi
He is just insecure that his precious Russia is on a massive demographic, cultural, economic, and most importantly military decline. Just look at their Putin hyped "revolutionary" nuclear missile that blew up and killed 7 soldiers. Hence he wants to project his anger on China, who he believes helped cause Russia's decline.
 
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Many people like you can't accept the development of China, and maybe the theory of copying or stealing can make you more comfortable.

But it can't stop the development of China, and you will need more excuses to mesmerize yourself.

Enjoy your time.:-)
I am rather cold and honest, I am not a propaganda machine like you that needs to twist and l lie a record with embellished accounts for Chinese guys who live in the west like you do, there is nothing bad about the J-10 having some Israeli tech and Russian assistance, fools like you feel ashamed if China was helped, there is nothing wrong with J-10 having some assistance because we all are humans and all we learn from others, the Chinese needed to learn like any one does, but J-10 is a Chinese product since many components are all mastered by China, but new technologies require being acquired, a true historian will always tell the true, not embellish stupid forum accounts for China trolls, is China capable of designing the J-10 yes they are, but they needed help that is true, it is a normal process, the effect is J-10 achieved faster operational capability than equivalent aircraft like the Indian LCA to put an example, was an excellent strategy and allowed China a better project but people hiding the account on patriotic speeches forget we all learn from others.

I love your attempts at flame baiting by inserting culture/race (both completely irrelevant) into a technical argument. If I am remember my history courses back in college, it was in fact the Westerners who stole Chinese technologies from silk production to paper making. If the Chinese have a "culture" of copying, then doesn't everyone in the Western world have that trait as well? Why should we treat different periods of time any differently?


He is just insecure that his precious Russia is on a massive demographic, cultural, economic, and most importantly military decline. Just look at their Putin hyped "revolutionary" nuclear missile that blew up and killed 7 soldiers. Hence he wants to project his anger on China, who he believes helped cause Russia's decline.
a fool feel ashamed to learn from others a fools says i know everything i need no help, but Cong was not a fool, he asked others to Make J-10 a better aircraft, in fact if you look at the crystal or plastic model LKJ86 posted the wing lacks the ventral fins and the wing is in a position higher, on the J-10 like Lavi the wing leading edge starts on the splitter plate of the intake and the rear trailing edge is at the bottom of the engine fairing exactly like Lavi achieving a lower wing not a mid wing position, a detail you can not see because a fool always says I know all never can admit correction, but the true is the true, but J-10 is a Chinese aircraft, highly influenced by Lavi data, but major subsystems are Chinese and the J-10 is not a clone, but rather highly influenced by Lavi
 
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I am rather cold and honest, I am not a propaganda machine like you that needs to twist and l lie a record with embellished accounts for Chinese guys who live in the west like you do, there is nothing bad about the J-10 having some Israeli tech and Russian assistance, fools like you feel ashamed if China was helped
I'm sorry but how in the world is @LKJ86 a "propaganda machine?" He consistently posts very high quality images of Chinese weaponry or Big Shrimp rumor talk before anyone else on this forum. If anybody is a "propaganda machine," then you are it. You continually rant about pointless stuff to discredit the Chinese aviation sector despite being offered a plethora of evidence to the contrary by various members, LKJ included, of this forum. You are entitled to your own opinion ... at this point everyone knows your position. You can now stop with your trolling and China bashing.

IAI Lavi had tech from Grumman and China is famous for copying from cars to Lavi, to American flags
Bro, Chinese factories producing American flags for American clients does not mean China is "copying" the American flag. But it is pointless for me to respond to your Red Herrings anyway.
 
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@Su33KUB

Please, give it a rest. No one denies a certain involvement but also no-one - including you - can say at what certain detail...


All arguments are given and no-one can proof such details like wing, tail, fins and other details, so leave it and especially stopp insulting otherss as spreading propaganda, while youself have your own.
 
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