Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[帅的一匹]

We shall stop producing J10b, and concentrate on C/D version.

 

[grey boy 2]

J-10C (刚出厂的黄皮新歼十C加力起飞 撕裂空气感强烈)

 

[Tiqiu]

Planes configured for aerobatic displays rarely fly with full fuel load. It is definitely possible to execute the climb you described with an AL-31F variant.

I know plane can pitch up to a vertical flight patch, but without greater than 1 T/W engine the speed will decelerate. This is not the case here. J-20 GOT VORTEX AND VAPOR TRAIL.

I have not seen any evidence that the J-10B is hosting a PESA radar. I have seen one picture of the J-10B with nosecone off, radar covers on, and no exposed modules. I think it is debatable whether the J-10B radar is even from 607. I haven't ruled anything out, but the best we can say at this point is that it is an electronically scanned array.

Correct. China never developed PESA. Thus J10B never had PESA.
J10B's AESA has 12XX GaN T/R @12 W

 

[Deino]

We shall stop producing J10b, and concentrate on C/D version.

The B-model is no longer in production ... it is long superseded by the J-10C.

Overall there are reports at CJDBY that there are around 120 J-10Bs/Cs produced in total: As such a look onto the production rate is interesting since we know for sure that there are 55 Batch 01 J-10Bs and the so far highest number spotted on a J-10C was 2-49, so making the 49th Batch 02 aircraft: in sum these are 104 J-10B/Cs at all, even if I have to admit, 2-49 was spotted already in late September, so 120 by now could be indeed correct.

Anyway, the first Batch 01 aircraft was spotted for the first time on 11. December 2013 ... so after nearly exactly three years we have confirmed about 120 B/C making a production rate of close to 40 per year or 3,33 per month.... not really top-level. In comparison, Lockheed Martin produced a peak of 30 planes per a month in June 1987.

What I'm interested in is to know, if already Batch 03 production has started ?!!

Deino

 

[帅的一匹]

The B-model is no longer in production ... it is long superseded by the J-10C.

Overall there are reports at CJDBY that there are around 120 J-10Bs/Cs produced in total: As such a look onto the production rate is interesting since we know for sure that there are 55 Batch 01 J-10Bs and the so far highest number spotted on a J-10C was 2-49, so making the 49th Batch 02 aircraft: in sum these are 104 J-10B/Cs at all, even if I have to admit, 2-49 was spotted already in late September, so 120 by now could be indeed correct.

Anyway, the first Batch 01 aircraft was spotted for the first time on 11. December 2013 ... so after nearly exactly three years we have confirmed about 120 B/C making a production rate of close to 40 per year or 3,33 per month.... not really top-level. In comparison, Lockheed Martin produced a peak of 30 planes per a month in June 1987.

What I'm interested in is to know, if already Batch 03 production has started ?!!

Deino

Dear Deino, how is your feeling when China build such a large scale of combat aircraft fleet? Maybe the question is little bit straight foward, but no malign intention. Do the western people feel insecure or uncomfortable with it? If yes/ not, please brief why. Thanks!

 

[Akasa]

Dear Deino, how is your feeling when China build such a large scale of combat aircraft fleet? Maybe the question is little bit straight foward, but no malign intention. Do the western people feel insecure or uncomfortable with it? If yes/ not, please brief why. Thanks!

Why such an insecure and condescending question? How do the Chinese feel when US warplanes and missiles ring China with more than 40+ bases?

 

[Deino]

Dear Deino, how is your feeling when China build such a large scale of combat aircraft fleet? Maybe the question is little bit straight foward, but no malign intention. Do the western people feel insecure or uncomfortable with it? If yes/ not, please brief why. Thanks!

To admit that's quite a difficult answer and I need to differ between my own personnel opinion and "what IMO most Western peoples on the street" think. Even more this is exactly the point why I feel so angry when some here call me a typical arrogant Western foreigner, who only wants to diminish Chinese achievements.

1. to me: IMO China finally is capable and even more it is itself politically willing to take its own fate into its own hand. China is now able to regain its long established place in Far East and in the global political, economic and therefore military system; and that's only a good thing. A place that China had lost years, actually decades ago and was not able to regain due to external powers and also internal issues; the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution and Tiananmen are only three examples. Consequently China is currently expanding its military capabilities and is modernising its forces but IMO this expansion is more than necessary due to several reasons again: China has to defend a vast territory and an even more vast population. The current size of its forces is for this alone still too small and too much dated. Second, for me China has to become - esp. following the collapse of the SU - a natural counterpart to balance the US and its politics. IMO a maniac like Trump with the world's biggest nuclear arsenal is a far bigger threat to peace than this so called "military expansion". As such - even if some here deem me an arrogant, ignorant or stupid Westerner - I'm more than happy with these developments. I'm enjoying each and every new progress, each and every new airplane as a step into this direction ... however now...

2. to the typical Western peoples: As already mentioned in the Type 001A carrier thread, for the West and the established powers this creates an feeling of uncertainty, concerns and fears about the established own position. The West fears that its power gained after WW II could diminish and therefore concerns that the balance of powers could shift are a typical reaction in the West. As such many here are indeed correct when they fear, that the typical Western sees this as a problem, as a military expansion that is dangerous. Consequently the typical Western media often enough reports in complete bias, ignorance about the issues with Japan, in the SCS or with India.

IMO something not really good since it prevents an unbiased approach to so many issues we all have to solve. Not sure if You know my book "Flashpoint China" (from Harpia Publishing), which was written exactly with this intention in mind. To explain the typical Western the situation in the Far East not from the typical Western point of view but from the historical context.

Hope this was at least - even if OT again - a useful answer.

Deino

 

[Pangu]

To admit that's quite a difficult answer and I need to differ between my own personnel opinion and "what IMO most Western peoples on the street" think. Even more this is exactly the point why I feel so angry when some here call me a typical arrogant Western foreigner, who only wants to diminish Chinese achievements.

1. to me: IMO China finally is capable and even more it is itself politically willing to take its own fate into its own hand. China is now able to regain its long established place in Far East and in the global political, economic and therefore military system; and that's only a good thing. A place that China had lost years, actually decades ago and was not able to regain due to external powers and also internal issues; the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution and Tiananmen are only three examples. Consequently China is currently expanding its military capabilities and is modernising its forces but IMO this expansion is more than necessary due to several reasons again: China has to defend a vast territory and an even more vast population. The current size of its forces is for this alone still too small and too much dated. Second, for me China has to become - esp. following the collapse of the SU - a natural counterpart to balance the US and its politics. IMO a maniac like Trump with the world's biggest nuclear arsenal is a far bigger threat to peace than this so called "military expansion". As such - even if some here deem me an arrogant, ignorant or stupid Westerner - I'm more than happy with these developments. I'm enjoying each and every new progress, each and every new airplane as a step into this direction ... however now...

2. to the typical Western peoples: As already mentioned in the Type 001A carrier thread, for the West and the established powers this creates an feeling of uncertainty, concerns and fears about the established own position. The West fears that its power gained after WW II could diminish and therefore concerns that the balance of powers could shift are a typical reaction in the West. As such many here are indeed correct when they fear, that the typical Western sees this as a problem, as a military expansion that is dangerous. Consequently the typical Western media often enough reports in complete bias, ignorance about the issues with Japan, in the SCS or with India.

IMO something not really good since it prevents an unbiased approach to so many issues we all have to solve. Not sure if You know my book "Flashpoint China" (from Harpia Publishing), which was written exactly with this intention in mind. To explain the typical Western the situation in the Far East not from the typical Western point of view but from the historical context.

Hope this was at least - even if OT again - a useful answer.

Deino

Thanks for your detailed explanation Deino. Personally, I always feel that your approach to questioning what is & what is not, with regards to China's military development based on factual or persistent evidence, to be unbiased & thoughtful. cheers.

 

[Beast]

Thanks for your detailed explanation Deino. Personally, I always feel that your approach to questioning what is & what is not, with regards to China's military development based on factual or persistent evidence, to be unbiased & thoughtful. cheers.

Many of his conclusions are incomplete just like sinosoldier as both of them cannot read Chinese and have no idea the full development. Their assessment is based on English source and mere simple English translation by others. Some Chinese interview are lengthy and nobody will bother to give a full translation for these foreign gentlemen. There are some Chinese verse which others may deem insignificant but contain critical meaning and insight. Just like the recent interview of J-20 chief designer yang wei. Nobody talks about that particular sentence mention by yang wei until recently raise up by me, he say " J-20 flight demonstrations, demonstrated something visible to audiences and yet also demonstrated something not visible to others too! " This sentence contains a lot of meaning and very important to understand the real capabilities and development of J-20. Only a real Chinese can decipher what he actually trying to tell you. And they are simply too many critical videos and interview both never see or miss which can give real insightful into Chinese military development. And they are not bogus source but direct interview with chief designer of the weapons or high ranking PLA personnel which involves in the decision making of the induction of the weapon.

I am sure Henri. K can give better assessment compare to the 2 others.

 

[Pangu]

Many of his conclusions are incomplete just like sinosoldier as both of them cannot read Chinese and have no idea the full development. Their assessment is based on English source and mere simple English translation by others. Some Chinese interview are lengthy and nobody will bother to give a full translation for these foreign gentlemen. There are some Chinese verse which others may deem insignificant but contain critical meaning and insight. Just like the recent interview of J-20 chief designer yang wei. Nobody talks about that particular sentence mention by yang wei u til recently raise up by me, he say " J-20 flight demonstrations, demonstrated something visible to audiences and yet also demonstrated something not visible to others too! " This sentence contains a lot of meaning and very important to understand the real capabilities and development of J-20. Only a real Chinese can decipher what he actually trying to tell you.

I am sure Henri. K can give better assessment compare to the 2 others.

Yah, I understand what u are saying bro. But he can only understand what he can understands, that's how he draw his conclusion. That's why opinions differ, which IMO does not disadvantage us, always good to keep people guessing. That'd the fun part.

 

[Sasquatch]

Stick to the topic about the J-10 instead of ABM, Ballistic missiles, US-China geopolitics, its throwing the thread in chaos. These posts have been removed, @Deino keep a watch on this.

 

[yusheng]

yes，on topic

 

[Deino]

View attachment 357875

yes，on topic

But again a very old image dated 10. January 2014 ! ... but anyway nice.

 

[Tiqiu]

 

[j20blackdragon]

The colour simply changes due to the heat during use ad the older an exhaust is, the much more different the colour is:

The blue color is indicative of continuing use. These 'petals' are often designed to be interchangeable from engine design to engine design, not just from engine to engine of the same design.

The operating temperature, even at the highest throttle setting, are well below the melting point of the metal, assuming this is a composite material. Over time and usage, the metal will change its steady state color to that blue-ish tint. This characteristic should not be used to speculate what kind of engine is in what airplane.

The color in the AL-31FN petals are a reaction between the heat from the engine and the alloys used to make the nozzle. Probably a reaction similar to how tempered steel changes color with differing temperatures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tempering_standards_used_in_blacksmithing.JPG

Heat and thrust are directly related. A higher thrust engine will produce more heat.

I also don't buy the argument that the nozzle will continue to change color over time. Can anyone show me Russian Air Force planes (using AL-31F) with color changing nozzles? Can anyone show me pictures of the Su-30MKK/MK2 nozzles changing color over time? I've never seen it.

Let me use pictures to illustrate the changing color of the J-10A/S nozzle over time.

Here are two pictures from the 2008/2009 time frame. These are dated photos from airliners.net. Standard blue/grey petals.

Now look at the multi-colored nozzles of the J-10A/S from Zhuhai 2016.

Here is a unique picture of an unmarked J-10A with very colorful nozzles. This one is very strange.

Moreover, please do not bring the J-10B/C into this discussion. We know AL-31FN Series 3 has higher thrust. I want to stick with the original J-10A/S using the 'old' AL-31FN.

Can anyone provide a credible explanation as to why the nozzle colors are changing over time?