Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[hj786]

Again wrong, i m not insulting any1 ( i never do ) and neither do i have to follow any news or media posts, its just an simple opinion my friend.

I didn't say you insulted anybody brother, I was also posting my opinion.

We will have the proper training with hi-tech aircrafts once we get our MLUs and B/52s.

But J-10 is a completely different aircraft. Surely different performance, different capabilities require different tactics? I agree with Mav3rick.

Also, 10 years down the road, a larger number of better jets will be more beneficial.

If the Chinese design the J-10B's radar/avionics upgrades to fit old J-10A (F-10A) as well, then that point is moot. They have a large fleet of J-10A themselves, surely they would want commonality with the J-10B.
The F-16 MLU will have the same radar and avionics as the brand new block 52 models. If they can do that to the 20-30 year old F-16A, I think they can do it to the J-10A.

 

[PAFAce]

If the Chinese design the J-10B's radar/avionics upgrades to fit old J-10A (F-10A) as well, then that point is moot. They have a large fleet of J-10A themselves, surely they would want commonality with the J-10B.

You are correct, I did not take upgrades into coinsideration when I presented my analysis. However, you can probably already guess, the overall cost of purchasing F-10s now and upgrading them to FC-20 standards later will definitely be higher than just purchsing the FC-20s when they are ready. As for the Chinese, they can definitely afford mass upgradations of this manner, but even they may choose not to. I think that if a reasonable offer is made to them by a customer for their old J-10As, they could sell them off and re-equip with J-10Bs, simply because they can afford to.

Also, every plane has a fixed amount of upgradability, and the F-10, after being upgraded to FC-20 standards, may not be upgradable in the future. This has already happened with the F-16s and Mirages. Both these platforms have pretty much reached their maximum capability through upgradation, and only significant technological breakthroughs could possibly make them better.

Therefore, I summarize my position: If the PAF feels that they need to quickly strengthen up to face potential threats in the short term (2009 to 2012), F-10s are probably our most best choice and I am all for them. However, if there is no real threat in the short term, or if existing threats subside, then the PAF should definitely wait for technology to mature, and then purchase the better product. This is the more economic choice in both the short and long term, and will eventually result in a stronger Air Force.

 

[mean_bird]

Some info/rumor about the FC-20 posted from pakdef

* PAF is likely to seek for 36 FC-20 that will cost around $1.5 Billion. All of which are expected to be single seat variants. Earlier there were rumors elsewhere about 40 FC-20 (36 single seater + 4 double seaters).

*PAF is more likely to go for western avionics/Radar (could have some commonality atleast as in same manufacturer with JF-17???)

*It will be capable of firing a variety of missiles

* J-10 has a high rate of Acceleration and Climb that will help in Short Take Off ; Its high thrust will also enable near vertical climb.
(can also be seen on youtube videos: search J-10 outclasses F-22 climb rate)

* Rumored to have Intermittent super cruise

 

[IceCold]

This aircraft may turn out to be more capable than the Block-50 F-16 we will have

There is a huge may in it. May i add that PAF had the option to go for the J-10 all along, yet we choose to go down the difficult road of acquiring the F-16s block 52 that is which means that PAF was not impressed.
Block52 is something that is yet to be matched by anything the Chinese have to offer. J-10 has the potential and there is no doubt that the ones we are gonna get i.e FC-20 by 2014 will be on par with the latest generation western fighters however this is 2009 and there is a huge gap in between which needs to be full filled and F-16 does that imo.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

A NOTE TO EVERYONE, PLEASE READ:

I urge everyone to show restraint when posting news of future Pakistani developments. Please do not openly post pshamim's statements, especially on other forums besides Pakdef. He isn't comfortable with that, and only gives us news expecting it to stay within the thread he posts in. Please keep in mind, there should be a degree of secrecy, and we should avoid posting of excitement (something which even I have trouble containing). there has even been a case of someone being court-martialed on Pakdef, and news leaks can even irk the Chinese.

let's avoid posting news from private sources, and instead rely on official news sources. as good as a person's news may sound, it should not be used in arguments and discussions. Let's also tell others to do the same, just in case they haven't read this message. Thank You!

 

[was]

 

[was]

 

[was]

 

[was]

 

[was]

 

[wangrong]

J10 #02

 

[mean_bird]

A NOTE TO EVERYONE, PLEASE READ:

I urge everyone to show restraint when posting news of future Pakistani developments. Please do not openly post pshamim's statements, especially on other forums besides Pakdef. He isn't comfortable with that, and only gives us news expecting it to stay within the thread he posts in. Please keep in mind, there should be a degree of secrecy, and we should avoid posting of excitement (something which even I have trouble containing). there has even been a case of someone being court-martialed on Pakdef, and news leaks can even irk the Chinese.

let's avoid posting news from private sources, and instead rely on official news sources. as good as a person's news may sound, it should not be used in arguments and discussions. Let's also tell others to do the same, just in case they haven't read this message. Thank You!

I believe this post was prompted by my post quoting Shamim sahib from pakdef.

Firstly, I accept that it wasn't really a smart thing from my side to quote someone from another forum with his permission. I had edited and reworded the post and hope to be more careful in future about such things.

However, this is a forum that is wide open to all internet users. So I do not think anything once posted remains or maintains any degree of secrecy. This forum or pakdef or any other forum is open for public viewing so any post is open for all to see. If anyone wanted to know about these "secret tidbits", I don't think he would rely on some other person to quote this news. He would just go ahead and read it. You do not even have to register to read any of those.

He, himself, has said that he doesn't post news until it has been reported by atleast a certain part of the media. In this case, the FC-20 project is common knowledge and publicly acknowledged. Even the further improvement part has been publicly stated. The role, climb rate, etc are all public knowledge and I am sure those who wanted to know about it specially would know far more than the public knows.

I do not believe any information once posted on an open forum has any "secrecy" left to it but thanks for your reminder and I shall be careful in future.

 

[spurdozer]

thanks wangrong and was. cool pics

 

[araz]

I believe this post was prompted by my post quoting Shamim sahib from pakdef.

Firstly, I accept that it wasn't really a smart thing from my side to quote someone from another forum with his permission. I had edited and reworded the post and hope to be more careful in future about such things.

However, this is a forum that is wide open to all internet users. So I do not think anything once posted remains or maintains any degree of secrecy. This forum or pakdef or any other forum is open for public viewing so any post is open for all to see. If anyone wanted to know about these "secret tidbits", I don't think he would rely on some other person to quote this news. He would just go ahead and read it. You do not even have to register to read any of those.

He, himself, has said that he doesn't post news until it has been reported by atleast a certain part of the media. In this case, the FC-20 project is common knowledge and publicly acknowledged. Even the further improvement part has been publicly stated. The role, climb rate, etc are all public knowledge and I am sure those who wanted to know about it specially would know far more than the public knows.

I do not believe any information once posted on an open forum has any "secrecy" left to it but thanks for your reminder and I shall be careful in future.

I would like to ad that in addition to what mean bird has already said, the only reason that we have mentioned his name is to give him credit for the information provided. As mean bird has already mentioned once he has made a post in an open forum, it is common knowledge and accessible to everyone. However, in respect of the above mentioned member, all that I can say is that I will post only in think tank forum, which will deprive members of availing good news
WaSalam
Araz

 

[araz]

Sir how do you see the current rumor as most members are stating here which is PAF getting J-10 initially by the end of 2009 and then by 2014 perhaps we will get the FC-20, version specifically built for Pakistan i would say. I mean if we consider the above rumor to be true, don't you think it will only add to cost maintaining 2 different type of platforms for an already budget constraint airforce.
About the older F-16s i agree with the most part, however one point i do want to bring it to your attention if it isn't already that PAF is not only interested in older F-16s from the US, but from where ever it can get it hands on, and in the light of that is it safe to assume that when Turkey will move towards the JSF, their F-16s can be bought my Pakistan and if yes then it wouldn't be a bad idea, certainly cost effective as well.

Icey
My background in totally non defence so I am as good as anybody else in hazarding a guess. With this proviso, I will attempt to answer your querry.
I think that one of the reasons for floating this news was as a message to some parties to not interfere in the PAF acquisition plans. Secondly, it was a ploy to cover for any deficiencies that our enemies might have percieved in our defence. The timelines were possible and knowing PAK- China relationship, and the previous acquisitions on fast track, it was doable as well.
However, it is not just about getting a new platform, it is also about money, infrastructure and training needs of our aces.From that point I deduce that the time for PAFs acquisition of J10 in its present condition has come and gone(as tensions have subsided in the subcontinent). The 2014/25 timeline makes sense and we will get the right plane at that time for a fantastic cost. It will probably have western avionics and maybe other goodies that may be required although with the chinese aviation industry coming of age, all that we can see at this time is PAF will assess the situation closer to the time.Again there is a news to the effect that all the FC20s will be ingle seaters. This leaves a big gap in our training needs which does not make sense to me personally.
As to the F16 issue, PAF may be interested, but the matter is of finding airframes tha t have not been run into the ground..the turks work their planes hard as they have to show off to the Greeks,so the chances of getting good frames from he are remote. However, if they decide to go for later blocks3040 planes, there will be infrastructure issues which is why PAF is reluctant to take them on.
With JSF induction and retirement of F16s you have to remember that we are talking of 3-5 yrs from now.The Turks will start by upgrdingtheir oldest planes first. Then there would be the cost of upgrading the plane(10-12 million perunit if i am not mistaken). I think it would be better to go down the J10/Thunder route and develop and acquire brand new planes that will keep us going for 20 yrs.
I hope it makes sense to you.
WaSalam
Araz