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Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

Well I know respected sir the question wasn't directed at me... but lets settle this issue once and for all

Will PAF receive :-

J-10 A
Lets look at the capabilities it gives over the traditional JF-17, not much in terms of technology, in terms of deep strike and being a high altitude platform it does do alot better

So lets ask our selves, will PAF invest millions in to get an entirely new platform with similar capabilities and just some advantages that we can get in the shape of more F-16's,if we buy them through parties other than USA, even though it will take USA's consent to get through the purchase but if PAF really needed just the main two advantages J-10A brings to the field i feel they would definitely go for a tested tried platform such as the F-16..

So J-10 A is a NO-NO for PAF

J-10B
Good platform which gives us a half a generation leap over JF-17 and a leap over the block 52, sounds like the thing most officials and insiders have been mentioning when they have said Block 52 wont be the best fighter in PAF's fleet for long...

But the other side is the finances... can we really go and use something like that which may be excellent for its given price, but its price might be a hike .... it seems that way when we look in to the current economic issues we are facing
Again a J-10 B might be a No-NO while talking the economy

Customized J-10 A

A customized J-10A with good changes such as dual seats, AESA radar, good EW suite etc which change the J-10A to B minus the structural changes may be the viable solution for us, as we will be cutting expenses and receiving nearly half a generation leap over what we field today...
As i remember huitong also said that we might see a customized J-10A in PAF's ranks ...

dont forget J-10 as it is, is one hell of a fighting machine having kills over the best china fields today in its operational airforce (j-11, SU-30 MKK)

I hope i made a contribution . :)

If you believe that what PAF is going to get are the fighters with Chinese Engine, then it is gonna be J-10B. Cos no J-10A or modified J-10A using Chinese Engine has been spotted.
 
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dont forget J-10 as it is, is one hell of a fighting machine having kills over the best china fields today in its operational airforce (j-11, SU-30 MKK)

I hope i made a contribution . :)

Its difficult to validate that J-10 can compete with J-11 / Su-30 MKK based on the information by Chinese sources. They want to export the J-10 and therefore obviously there will always be salt and pepper regarding the results outcomes. Otherwise PAF would have definitely fielded 40-50 J-10A as a stop gap until something better comes up.
 
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Former PAF ACM is on record as saying that J-10 is a great potential platform for the PAF, that Pakistan has requested China to make various 'Improvements' to it before PAF will induct it, that AESA is a key requirement for the type------- then in a different interview he stated that Pakistans 'contract' with China for tha J-10 was 'intact' and China was making required improvements to the J-10 before acuisition by the PAF.

Now - if anyone knows of any other versions of the J-10 flying around with AESA and other 'improvements' - I'm all ears -- until then - my money is still on J-10B = FC-20. Also note that the J-10B is the only version of the J-10 known to be flying with a Chinese engine - I believe thats because its destined for export and needs a domestic powerplant.

For those who are writing off the FC-20 acuisition -- the ACM stated 40 of the type by 2016 and these things are usualy delayed by a couple of years - so hardly time to throw in the towel just yet.
 
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Its difficult to validate that J-10 can compete with J-11 / Su-30 MKK based on the information by Chinese sources. They want to export the J-10 and therefore obviously there will always be salt and pepper regarding the results outcomes. Otherwise PAF would have definitely fielded 40-50 J-10A as a stop gap until something better comes up.

Now i know this is a fact when it comes to export planes, however thats all we'v got, so its the situation where Pakistanis like me will take it as authentic and indians will leave it...
plus I remember many of our indian friends saying the same about the "stealth projects" and cracking jokes like there is no stealth project of China etc only to get a huge wake up call with the appearance of the Mighty dragon...
Like i said in my first response, J-10A will offer capabilities in the region of block 52 at best and what we need is something better than that keeping in view the latest Indian acquisitions like the rafales and super sukhois

If you believe that what PAF is going to get are the fighters with Chinese Engine, then it is gonna be J-10B. Cos no J-10A or modified J-10A using Chinese Engine has been spotted.
It all depends on what PAF wants...u are totally right on what u point out but I dont think structural changes for J-10A to fit a chinese engine would be on a level that would need alot of time ... that is assuming PAF wants a chinese engine in the first place, we are running out of time as it...
 
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Former PAF ACM is on record as saying that J-10 is a great potential platform for the PAF, that Pakistan has requested China to make various 'Improvements' to it before PAF will induct it, that AESA is a key requirement for the type------- then in a different interview he stated that Pakistans 'contract' with China for tha J-10 was 'intact' and China was making required improvements to the J-10 before acuisition by the PAF.

Now - if anyone knows of any other versions of the J-10 flying around with AESA and other 'improvements' - I'm all ears -- until then - my money is still on J-10B = FC-20. Also note that the J-10B is the only version of the J-10 known to be flying with a Chinese engine - I believe thats because its destined for export and needs a domestic powerplant.

For those who are writing off the FC-20 acuisition -- the ACM stated 40 of the type by 2016 and these things are usualy delayed by a couple of years - so hardly time to throw in the towel just yet.

Hi,

Please don't trust the previous ACM's of pakistan air force---most of them have decieved pakistan---they have been criminally negligent of doing their job---including the current and the past ACM's----.

You pakistani children are just learning that your pilots cannot simply jump into the cockpit of aircraft and fly circles around the enemy---your air force has lost the best oppurtunities it had to get the aircraft of choice---your air force decieved the french and the swedes and got bitten so hard in return that it is not even funny---.

My boy---our air force is so pathetic that during time of war---it could not protect it most expensive assets---. Just like in the 71 war---the RB57 was destroyed on the tarmac---likewise---P3 c destroyed in karachi---other assets destroyed at kamra---.
 
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If you believe that what PAF is going to get are the fighters with Chinese Engine, then it is gonna be J-10B. Cos no J-10A or modified J-10A using Chinese Engine has been spotted.
FYI, J10A with WS-10A engine.
u=1441338547,218515010&fm=23&gp=0.jpg

FC-20 is really a secret.
 
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Hi,

Please don't trust the previous ACM's of pakistan air force---most of them have decieved pakistan---they have been criminally negligent of doing their job---including the current and the past ACM's----.

You pakistani children are just learning that your pilots cannot simply jump into the cockpit of aircraft and fly circles around the enemy---your air force has lost the best oppurtunities it had to get the aircraft of choice---your air force decieved the french and the swedes and got bitten so hard in return that it is not even funny---.

My boy---our air force is so pathetic that during time of war---it could not protect it most expensive assets---. Just like in the 71 war---the RB57 was destroyed on the tarmac---likewise---P3 c destroyed in karachi---other assets destroyed at kamra---.

As usual there is a distinct lack of logic / common sense / explanation in your post.

Please give specific details of where / how current and former ACM's were 'criminally negligent'.??
Which aircraft 'of choice' did the PAF lose the oppertunity to get and when??
PAF decieved the French and Swedes and then got bitten so hard?? --- when, where and how??
Do you just make this stuff up or are you on a different planet?

During war time many nations lose aircraft on the ground -- including India -- does that make all their airforces 'pathetic?'
P3-C was a naval aircraft not PAF asset. Karachi and Kamra terrorist attacks do not justify you labeling the PAF as pathetic. If it does pehaps 'your' US airforce is also pathetic for failing to prevent 9/11???
 
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Now i know this is a fact when it comes to export planes, however thats all we'v got, so its the situation where Pakistanis like me will take it as authentic and indians will leave it...
plus I remember many of our indian friends saying the same about the "stealth projects" and cracking jokes like there is no stealth project of China etc only to get a huge wake up call with the appearance of the Mighty dragon...
Like i said in my first response, J-10A will offer capabilities in the region of block 52 at best and what we need is something better than that keeping in view the latest Indian acquisitions like the rafales and super sukhois

I understand that until the reliable information regarding the J-10A comes out whatever we discuss here is debatable. However, from what we can see from here is that PAF doesn't want to go for J-10's until they get significant upgrade form its current specifications.

By the looks of it J-10 seems to be a promising design, however, still we have to see how much advances has been made in technologies which cannot be evaluated by just naked eyes. Radars, engines, avionics, EW suites and so on and so forth. If PAF had a choice and say hypothetically didn't have a economic and unreliable supply of parts problem, they would never go for Chinese platform for their defense needs.

Same is true for Chinese 5th gen planes, by the looks they are at par with other 5th gen design, however we have to see how really they come up with in the terms of 5th gen radars, engines electronics and weapons systems.

PAF is definitely aware of it and therefore they are taking their sweet time to see how these systems evolves.
 
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I understand that until the reliable information regarding the J-10A comes out whatever we discuss here is debatable. However, from what we can see from here is that PAF doesn't want to go for J-10's until they get significant upgrade form its current specifications.

By the looks of it J-10 seems to be a promising design, however, still we have to see how much advances has been made in technologies which cannot be evaluated by just naked eyes. Radars, engines, avionics, EW suites and so on and so forth. If PAF had a choice and say hypothetically didn't have a economic and unreliable supply of parts problem, they would never go for Chinese platform for their defense needs.

Same is true for Chinese 5th gen planes, by the looks they are at par with other 5th gen design, however we have to see how really they come up with in the terms of 5th gen radars, engines electronics and weapons systems.

PAF is definitely aware of it and therefore they are taking their sweet time to see how these systems evolves.


For the most part I agree, but for the bolded part, I dont think so.
It depends on the priorities
-Technology (west definitely has an edge at that as they have proven technology but like every body knows chinese have made quite a leap, a sudden appearance of two stealth projects in less than 2 years is suffice proof)
-Cost effectiveness (doesn't matter if our economy is better, fact is PAF will still consider the price for what technology they are being given like any other "sensible" customer would ... and if someone offers the same technological level in a lower rate it just amplifies their chances to be selected for the purchase)
-Reliability This is the part where Chinese will always dominate the Pakistani market, an all weather friend who has helped pakistan time and again ...
 
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China technology is not just a cheap potatoes in the marketplace, It is reliable and cost effective for Pakistan. If there is a war, the supply of Chinese made weapon will be consistently delivered to Pakistan. This is a key factor of consideration of PAF weapon procurement. Last time prime Gialni visited china for support, china agree to deliver 50 JF17 thunders for free ASAP. That's called ally! When will Russia supply India fighters for free? Business is business, that is Russia do to India.
 
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China’s Warplane Industry Expands


Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology

November 05, 2012

Bill Sweetman - Washington


A half-dozen years ago, China's aircraft industry had not delivered a single competitive, operational fighter of its own design. Today, two are in service—the low-cost JF-17 and the J-10, the latter apparently comparable to most current in-production fighters—and China is still delivering bargain-basement fighters evolved from the classic Mikoyan MiG-21. The country's industry has developed an indigenous version of the Su-27 (the Russians might call it something less creditable) and is in the process of doing the same with the carrier-based member of the family, the Su-33.

Moreover, the Chengdu and Shenyang design teams have produced prototypes of two next-generation combat aircraft incorporating stealth technology, in the form of the canard-delta J-20 and the Lockheed Martin-influenced design identified as the J-31. An expanding range of air-launched missiles has been developed for the new fighters, together with new-generation sensors including active, electronically scanned array (AESA) radars and infrared search-and-track (IRST) systems.

China's flagship international fighter program is the JF-17 Thunder, developed and produced by Chengdu in cooperation with Pakistan, which has used it as a vehicle to create and grow its government-operated industry. It evolved from a series of Chinese studies of radically modified MiG-21s but was an entirely new aircraft by the time the design was unveiled at the Paris air show in 1999. In the same year, Pakistan signed the initial co-development agreement with China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corp.(Catic).

“At the start of the project, Pakistan had no industrial or technological base,” Pakistan air force then-chief of staff Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman said at a conference last year. However, he noted that Pakistan has participated in all stages of the design and helped develop the requirement for the fighter. The design was defined in 2001 and first flight took place in 2003, six prototypes were followed by a batch of eight Chinese-built aircraft for evaluation. Production in Pakistan started in 2005 and the first locally built aircraft rolled out in November 2009. According to Suleman, the type's performance “exceeded expectations,” leading to a decision to perform tests and introduce it into service in parallel.

Pakistan's goal is to replace its “vintage” fleet, comprising more than 250 Mirages and older Chinese F-7 and A-5III fighters, with JF-17s. The first batch of 42 aircraft, the last of them delivered earlier this year, replaced the A-5IIIs (a 1970s-era Chinese development of the MiG-19), equipping three squadrons. Overall, Suleman says, the JF-17 should allow the air force to replace its older fleet (not necessarily one-for-one, given the much greater capability of the new aircraft) at “one-third to one-fourth” the acquisition cost of any other modern fighter, with a similar savings in operating cost.

The JF-17 has been displayed at the Dubai and Farnborough air shows, and Pakistan's industry has talked to avionics suppliers worldwide about providing systems for the aircraft. According to the Russian media, the original contract for the fighter's RD-93 engine covered 100 powerplants with an option for 500 more, and an uprated 20,500-lb.-thrust version, the RD-93MA, is under development. Meanwhile, one JF-17 is reported to be flying in China with the Guizhou WS-13 engine.

Still under negotiation is the sale to Pakistan of the larger Chengdu J-10B, a modernized version of the canard-delta J-10. Although Pakistani interest in the J-10 has been reported since 2006, no firm deal has been announced. The most recent reports suggest that China has offered a squadron of J-10Bs. The new version differs from the original in featuring an AESA radar, IRST, a diverterless inlet and underwing fairings that point to an improved electronic-warfare suite.

Unlike the JF-17, neither the J-10 nor the J-10B has been demonstrated outside China. The J-10B's existence is known only via Internet leaks, but its existence makes the J-10 look like a sunset program. Also, the production of the J-10 still depends on Russian engine supplies.

China has ordered a total of 399 AL-31FN engines from Russia, according to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute data; its most recent order, for 123 engines, was placed last year. Of those, 276 had been delivered by 2011. Most of these power 220-plus J-10s, but others have been used in the Shenyang J-11B and J-15—the “bootleg” versions, respectively, of the Su-27 and Su-33. The indigenous WS-10A Taihang engine is under development and reported to be under test on J-10B and J-11B prototypes, but the 2011 order, covering four years of J-10 production at the rates seen so far, suggests that full production quantities of the WS-10A are not expected until 2015.

Technologically, the J-10B may be a stepping-stone to the J-20 and J-31. The status of China's stealth program has not become much clearer since the surprise appearance of the heavyweight J-20 at the end of 2010. However, the unveiling of the smaller—roughly Joint Strike Fighter-sized—J-31 points to the two designs being complementary, rather than alternatives. Despite their different shapes and sizes, the J-20 and J-31 are similar in that they appear to have advanced beyond the stage of being pure technology demonstrators. Both are larger than the J-10, pointing to a future three-level force mix.

In the next few years, the pace of Chinese fighter development may be set by the resources available and the sheer number of programs. In 2005, China had three major fighter projects underway: the JF-17, J-10 and J-11B. Today, it has the J-10B and J-15, and both Chengdu and Shenyang have challenging stealth programs.

An older fighter that apparently remains in production is the Chengdu J-7, developed from the MiG-21, but with changes including a double-delta, slatted wing and new canopy. In 2011, the Bangladeshi air force announced that it would be taking delivery this year of a squadron of 15 F-7BGI fighters, equipped with a three-screen glass cockpit, head-up display and hands-on-throttle-and-stick controls. These will begin to replace the mixed force of older F-7s, A-5IIIs and MiG-29s.


this article confirms;

1. 3 sqn's of JFT are ready.
2. chinese engines are still 2-3 years away from mass production.
3. J-10B is the way forward as J-10's been referred to as a 'sunset program'.
 
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its artical gives some relief we are getting J10B the JF17 spotted with tail no 75 means the no are 75 for sure on PAF 25 more soon that's great and love to se e J10B performing at the china air show 2012
 
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its artical gives some relief we are getting J10B the JF17 spotted with tail no 75 means the no are 75 for sure on PAF 25 more soon that's great and love to se e J10B performing at the china air show 2012

No chance of getting fc20 until or unless the chinese engine is matured. most importantly we dont even have sufficient fund to buy one squadron of fc20 let alone a full fleet.
 
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