Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Viper0011.]

Re comment : Hasnain



Do you think that IAF launch of RISAT spy satalite last week,,, or induction of the Embrar indengious awacs,, and development of the indo israeli MEDUIM range spyder SAM can be attributed to check mating your above scenario....

Paralysing a AIR POWER that boasts Phalcon Awacs, su30mki , mica equipped mirage2000 and soon rafale F3 with meteore BVRs will BE a TALL order even for PLAAF let alone PAF

Stand off capability is standard military equipment in most half decent air powers globally.

eg

IAF today boasts brahmos & pop eye trubo criuse missles AND will add brahmos hypersonic and nirbhay cruise missles in next 12 months.

From 2014 WHEN RAFALES come they will come with dassults 300km rafale launched scalp cruise missles...

5 different cruise missles all stand off air launched missles

So this whole India - Pak deal is becoming very frustrating as people side track the thread and get into these silly conversations.

Allow me to put a stop here if common sense can survive. Personally, I am a man against wars between the two countries as majority of their population is poor and people get killed in wars and that's not humane.
Second, it doesn't matter anymore if one side has Superman and the other just 'man'. The bottom line is the scenario that's unthinkable so there shouldn't ever be a war between the two. Unless both countries act stupid and get into the last resort. That's the end of it. Read American think tank assessments. If war breaks out between the two, it'll be MAD!!! So no Su 30, J10B or supermen will help save millions of people, infrastructure, etc.
Now the spy satellite from India can be (and is already) being countered by a freaking constellation of Chinese spy satellites. Just like the US provides open access to the Israeli's, China does the same with Pak. It won't ever come to open public though.
Now, AWACS, SU 30, Mica, etc, etc.....what are we getting into? SU 30 is a GREAT plane but if it locks someone from 120 miles away and the JFT or J 10B locks'em from the same distance and can fire BVR missiles... it'll be up to the missile tech but both stand equal chances. Infact, the small guy may have a better chance actually. But, You'll rarely see WVR type of encounters as things will be getting hit from 25 to 75 miles away.
So all AWACS, the 'Super Ultimate 30', Rafale's etc etc will pose numbers but it'll be very difficult to achieve air superiority with triggering a MAD type of a response . At the end of the day, limited scale conflicts is all that may happen. For about 90% of the BVR conflicts..it'll be the radar & missile tech. Similarly, standoff weapons will play a huge role.
Remember, Indian aircraft will need to either come close to the Pakistani airspace or come inside of it so they'll travel ways and will have to run back and run ways if there's a capable BVR missile chasing after it from far away vs. PAF who's aircraft is within a short distance so home turf .... so some benefit there for the PAF.

Now onto stand off cruise missiles, do you really think PA has parked its assets right next to Lahore airport, or Islamabad's parliament building or JFT manufacturing facilities so they can all be taken out in one strike??
It doesn't matter it there are ten Brahmoses or their mothers and dogs accompanying them. There will be significant response.....so the end result is the one NO ONE should have in mind. That will kill a lot of people and that's something we should ALL avoid from discussing out of national / cultural / racial pride.
Let's have a productive discussion with focus on the actual thread. Not who has what, how many and therefor has a bigger di$k. Those days are over in India and Pakistan's case. The future revolves around both these countries working together for the ultimate benefit for their people.
From a military standpoint, it will be the capable technology not 7 vs. 9 hard points, not supersonic Mig 21 with reduced frame and added tail fin called the 'Brahmos' or Su 30 being able to carry 20 bvr missiles (sarcastic here). 200 SU 30 vs. 100 JFT (small wit Stealthy features, similar quality tech and capable missiles)......who's going to win (again, just a common sense question)? The guy who I could see from 120 miles away or the guys 75 miles away that I can't see or can HARDLY see???
You can't shoot a ghost or someone that isn't very visible or is coming in and out of your radar due to small size or reduced rcs....

 

[Safriz]

 

[Abdul Quddoos]

So this whole India - Pak deal is becoming very frustrating as people side track the thread and get into these silly conversations.

Allow me to put a stop here if common sense can survive. Personally, I am a man against wars between the two countries as majority of their population is poor and people get killed in wars and that's not humane.
Second, it doesn't matter anymore if one side has Superman and the other just 'man'. The bottom line is the scenario that's unthinkable so there shouldn't ever be a war between the two. Unless both countries act stupid and get into the last resort. That's the end of it. Read American think tank assessments. If war breaks out between the two, it'll be MAD!!! So no Su 30, J10B or supermen will help save millions of people, infrastructure, etc.
Now the spy satellite from India can be (and is already) being countered by a freaking constellation of Chinese spy satellites. Just like the US provides open access to the Israeli's, China does the same with Pak. It won't ever come to open public though.
Now, AWACS, SU 30, Mica, etc, etc.....what are we getting into? SU 30 is a GREAT plane but if it locks someone from 120 miles away and the JFT or J 10B locks'em from the same distance and can fire BVR missiles... it'll be up to the missile tech but both stand equal chances. Infact, the small guy may have a better chance actually. But, You'll rarely see WVR type of encounters as things will be getting hit from 25 to 75 miles away.
So all AWACS, the 'Super Ultimate 30', Rafale's etc etc will pose numbers but it'll be very difficult to achieve air superiority with triggering a MAD type of a response . At the end of the day, limited scale conflicts is all that may happen. For about 90% of the BVR conflicts..it'll be the radar & missile tech. Similarly, standoff weapons will play a huge role.
Remember, Indian aircraft will need to either come close to the Pakistani airspace or come inside of it so they'll travel ways and will have to run back and run ways if there's a capable BVR missile chasing after it from far away vs. PAF who's aircraft is within a short distance so home turf .... so some benefit there for the PAF.

Now onto stand off cruise missiles, do you really think PA has parked its assets right next to Lahore airport, or Islamabad's parliament building or JFT manufacturing facilities so they can all be taken out in one strike??
It doesn't matter it there are ten Brahmoses or their mothers and dogs accompanying them. There will be significant response.....so the end result is the one NO ONE should have in mind. That will kill a lot of people and that's something we should ALL avoid from discussing out of national / cultural / racial pride.
Let's have a productive discussion with focus on the actual thread. Not who has what, how many and therefor has a bigger di$k. Those days are over in India and Pakistan's case. The future revolves around both these countries working together for the ultimate benefit for their people.
From a military standpoint, it will be the capable technology not 7 vs. 9 hard points, not supersonic Mig 21 with reduced frame and added tail fin called the 'Brahmos' or Su 30 being able to carry 20 bvr missiles (sarcastic here). 200 SU 30 vs. 100 JFT (small wit Stealthy features, similar quality tech and capable missiles)......who's going to win (again, just a common sense question)? The guy who I could see from 120 miles away or the guys 75 miles away that I can't see or can HARDLY see???
You can't shoot a ghost or someone that isn't very visible or is coming in and out of your radar due to small size or reduced rcs....

Hypersonic reply..

 

[Safriz]

Nope, some mentioned, it is PESA. Another picture you posted yellow J-10B is PESA radar.

Confusing.

you are on about this thread?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/109399-j-10b-aesa-pesa-radar.html

 

[Farooqi1]

Many prject are in pipeline with China...getting matured in terms f technology.We will get the best available in J1o series.Dont wrry guysThis bird will match Rafale.

Insha Allaah

Re comment : Hasnain



Do you think that IAF launch of RISAT spy satalite last week,,, or induction of the Embrar indengious awacs,, and development of the indo israeli MEDUIM range spyder SAM can be attributed to check mating your above scenario....

Paralysing a AIR POWER that boasts Phalcon Awacs, su30mki , mica equipped mirage2000 and soon rafale F3 with meteore BVRs will BE a TALL order even for PLAAF let alone PAF

Stand off capability is standard military equipment in most half decent air powers globally.

eg

IAF today boasts brahmos & pop eye trubo criuse missles AND will add brahmos hypersonic and nirbhay cruise missles in next 12 months.

From 2014 WHEN RAFALES come they will come with dassults 300km rafale launched scalp cruise missles...

5 different cruise missles all stand off air launched missles

Keep on dreaming my man keep on dreaming. We will hit you the way you can't imagine.

 

[SBD-3]

How are we going to get the air superiority when we don't have any projects in place? Every time I bring in JFT every one start saying that air superiority was not intended purpose of JFT.

What is meant by air superiority? An air superiority fighter is a fighter that is developed with A2A combat in mind. F-15 was introduced as an air superiority fighter, F-16 started its career as an air superiority fighter, Mig-29 was also an air superiority fighter initially and so was the J-10. But don't you wonder as they all evolved, they gradually became multirole fighters (F-15E, F-16 C/D/E/F, Mig-29 OVT,SMT etc and J-10A and now J-10B). Multirole capabilities require more comprehensive avionics package, more complex software, more sophisticated radar and more balanced design for smoother performance in all speed realms.A multirole fighter can fire a BVR but an airsuperiority fighter can't do precision engagement, Wild Wiesel ops and anti ship operations. I hope it helps.

Nope, some mentioned, it is PESA. Another picture you posted yellow J-10B is PESA radar.

Confusing.

It is AESA as per manufacturer....PESA was speculation at when first pictures of J-10B radar were leaked.

Re comment : Hasnain



Do you think that IAF launch of RISAT spy satalite last week,,, or induction of the Embrar indengious awacs,, and development of the indo israeli MEDUIM range spyder SAM can be attributed to check mating your above scenario....

Paralysing a AIR POWER that boasts Phalcon Awacs, su30mki , mica equipped mirage2000 and soon rafale F3 with meteore BVRs will BE a TALL order even for PLAAF let alone PAF

Stand off capability is standard military equipment in most half decent air powers globally.

eg

IAF today boasts brahmos & pop eye trubo criuse missles AND will add brahmos hypersonic and nirbhay cruise missles in next 12 months.

From 2014 WHEN RAFALES come they will come with dassults 300km rafale launched scalp cruise missles...

5 different cruise missles all stand off air launched missles

Again....well hez back....I only see around 25% of your post relevant in current scenario, Rest are the discounted speculations, hopes, dates and time lines....no wonder somebody once suggested a good name for you....

@Farooqi Sahib
You are causing redundancy by repeating the same points over and over in different threads.....Keep any specific idea for relevant thread instead of flooding different threads with essentially same idea.

 

[Farooqi1]

What is meant by air superiority? An air superiority fighter is a fighter that is developed with A2A combat in mind. F-15 was introduced as an air superiority fighter, F-16 started its career as an air superiority fighter, Mig-29 was also an air superiority fighter initially and so was the J-10. But don't you wonder as they all evolved, they gradually became multirole fighters (F-15E, F-16 C/D/E/F, Mig-29 OVT,SMT etc and J-10A and now J-10B). Multirole capabilities require more comprehensive avionics package, more complex software, more sophisticated radar and more balanced design for smoother performance in all speed realms.A multirole fighter can fire a BVR but an airsuperiority fighter can't do precision engagement, Wild Wiesel ops and anti ship operations. I hope it helps.


It is AESA as per manufacturer....PESA was speculation at when first pictures of J-10B radar were leaked.


Again....well hez back....I only see around 25% of your post relevant in current scenario, Rest are the discounted speculations, hopes, dates and time lines....no wonder somebody once suggested a good name for you....

@Farooqi Sahib
You are causing redundancy by repeating the same points over and over in different threads.....Keep any specific idea for relevant thread instead of flooding different threads with essentially same idea.

Hasan Sahib

Your advise is well taken. But unfortunately to me both threads are of same importance and relevancy. Defense of Pakistan. But I will keep it in mind.

Now coming back to air superiority, of all the combat planes the one assigned the role of air superiority seems to me in specifications and design far superior then the multirole assigned fighters. May be because I am a non-technical person that is why I am not understanding the concept. That is where the role of senior members becomes vital. Any way I will keep on reading without posting any further comments

 

[Storm Force]

HASNAIN.you commented thatonly.25% of my post was relevant...which is fine.
But remember paf has not ordered j10 or fc2o as per senior pdf remarks recently..we have 378 pages of pure speculation. You suggested stick to current ....well current is.no j10 and only 40 block one jft and 63 f16.....v.270 su30mki mirage2000 and mig29......

Discount works both ways in a fair and non biased forum debate

 

[Farooqi1]

HASNAIN.you commented thatonly.25% of my post was relevant...which is fine.
But remember paf has not ordered j10 or fc2o as per senior pdf remarks recently..we have 378 pages of pure speculation. You suggested stick to current ....well current is.no j10 and only 40 block one jft and 63 f16.....v.270 su30mki mirage2000 and mig29......

Discount works both ways in a fair and non biased forum debate

You are not debating, you are just bragging and bragging and bragging. Remind you that we have enough nuclear capability that would easily take care of 270 SU 30MKI mirage and Mig and what ever you would have, if need ever be arises. We didn't sacrifice to keep them just in the shelf. It is none of your business weather we have ordered FC-20 or not and how and where the money would come from.

If I were you and as a human being I would take care your Aids infected population and millions of those poor who are spending their nights on the foot paths of Calcutta and Bombay.

270 SUMKI would not take care of their basic needs and neither they pose any threats to us.

 

[The SC]

Here is an interesting article for comparison:

New Delhi: Two years after the former Air Chief sent a warning to the Government about the Air Force losing parity with its Pakistani counterpart, things are still not completely looking up.

In the midst of tensions between India and Pakistan, the IAF is working with one of its lowest squadron strengths - 32 as opposed to a sanctioned 39. The numbers count specially in a full blown conflict.

In his letter to the government - details of which were accessed by CNN IBN and first telecast on Sep 2006 - the then Air Chief Air Marshall Tyagi had talked about the declining combat strength

He wrote, "Unless immediate steps are taken to arrest the reduction in Indian Air Force's force levels, the Nation will for the first time in its history, lose the conventional military edge over Pakistan".

Seven months later in one of the fastest decisions, the government gave the go ahead for 40 Sukhoi M30s. It could be the end of 2009 before the planes finally enter service.

Other programs like the deal to purchase the 126 Multi Role Aircraft and the Light Combat Aircraft could take several years before they fructify.

Therefore, for the moment the IAF is struggling with one of its lowest aircraft strengths.

The depleting force levels could affect the capability of the Air Force to carry out wide scale operations. The existing aircraft are also far from satisfactory

The MiG-21s have already lived their life. Only six of the 13 squadrons will remain in service after 2012 and MiG-27s are being upgraded

A deal to upgrade the MiG-29s has been signed but could be three years before they arrive and the Mirage-2000s are also due for upgradation.

Even with this the IAF has an edge over its Pakistani counterpart. But its dominance in the sub-continent's airspace and the crucial roles its played is certainly under threat.

Are We Battle Ready: IAF is not prepared - India News - IBNLive

 

[alimobin memon]

Chinese tech is some what different from western and russian so radar on j10B maybe looking PESA it might not be, As far as i know delta wing of mirage and j10 is little different but very different perspective.

 

[MastanKhan]

Chinese tech is some what different from western and russian so radar on j10B maybe looking PESA it might not be, As far as i know delta wing of mirage and j10 is little different but very different perspective.

Hi,

Oh---that is an interesting statement---could you please elaborate on it.

Here is an interesting article for comparison:

New Delhi: Two years after the former Air Chief sent a warning to the Government about the Air Force losing parity with its Pakistani counterpart, things are still not completely looking up.

In the midst of tensions between India and Pakistan, the IAF is working with one of its lowest squadron strengths - 32 as opposed to a sanctioned 39. The numbers count specially in a full blown conflict.

In his letter to the government - details of which were accessed by CNN IBN and first telecast on Sep 2006 - the then Air Chief Air Marshall Tyagi had talked about the declining combat strength

He wrote, "Unless immediate steps are taken to arrest the reduction in Indian Air Force's force levels, the Nation will for the first time in its history, lose the conventional military edge over Pakistan".

Seven months later in one of the fastest decisions, the government gave the go ahead for 40 Sukhoi M30s. It could be the end of 2009 before the planes finally enter service.

Other programs like the deal to purchase the 126 Multi Role Aircraft and the Light Combat Aircraft could take several years before they fructify.

Therefore, for the moment the IAF is struggling with one of its lowest aircraft strengths.

The depleting force levels could affect the capability of the Air Force to carry out wide scale operations. The existing aircraft are also far from satisfactory

The MiG-21s have already lived their life. Only six of the 13 squadrons will remain in service after 2012 and MiG-27s are being upgraded

A deal to upgrade the MiG-29s has been signed but could be three years before they arrive and the Mirage-2000s are also due for upgradation.

Even with this the IAF has an edge over its Pakistani counterpart. But its dominance in the sub-continent's airspace and the crucial roles its played is certainly under threat.

Are We Battle Ready: IAF is not prepared - India News - IBNLive

Hi,

The sqdrn capacity is very deceptive----it is for the layman----but the real question is what is the load carrying capacity of these 32 sqdrn's against the pakistani 26 sqdrns----.

I mean to say---only the SU 30's alone would possibly have as much or more load carrying capabilities than all of the pak air force sqdrns ( or very close to it ).

Can some put some numbers on this board---thank you.

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

MK squadron size might be even more significant: the IAF person is counting theirs as full squadrons of 18-21 planes while the PAF's are at 14-planes strengths.

 

[alimobin memon]

Hi,

Oh---that is an interesting statement---could you please elaborate on it.



Hi,

The sqdrn capacity is very deceptive----it is for the layman----but the real question is what is the load carrying capacity of these 32 sqdrn's against the pakistani 26 sqdrns----.

I mean to say---only the SU 30's alone would possibly have as much or more load carrying capabilities than all of the pak air force sqdrns ( or very close to it ).

Can some put some numbers on this board---thank you.

There was event when j10A pics were leaked back 2001 or 2000 but the radar that was shown on the picture was never integrated i know what i am saying , so what i am trying to say either this is AESA or it this radar is not J10B's True Radar that need to be integrated . AESA has many Radio frequencies where as PESA has central radio frequency.

 

[Manticore]

.....

Even with this the IAF has an edge over its Pakistani counterpart. But its dominance in the sub-continent's airspace and the crucial roles its played is certainly under threat.

Are We Battle Ready: IAF is not prepared - India News - IBNLive

these kind of cunning articles which show iaf vulnerability are published to pressure gov. to release even MORE funds for the airforce ...