Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[Nitin Goyal]

If you closely look, it does not cost Chinese Government much to raise the anxiety level of India. Even if they donate 16 aircrafts, they subsidize 33% of the cost. But it keeps the money in Chine, the worker busy, maintain job levels. How long can Indians keep making 10s of billion dollars deals to answer the increased threat perception from Pakistan. mind you that Indians have felt secure if the parity is 3 to one in its favour. They cannot win against Pakistan 1 to 1.

Seems like a smart poker game started by Chinese. If China keeps playing, we may see a lot more various systems that we cannot otherwise be cost prohibitive to us.

India defense budget is 10 times of Pakistan while pakistan have to live on soft loans still it is less than 2.5 of our GDP on the other hand your defense budget is increasing day by day. So you don't enjoy anything on that front.

Also we are getting top notch aircrafts like MKI, MCRA, C-17, C 130 , P8i etc. on the other hand you are getting chinese product who are still evolving and are no match of their western counterparts. remember U have to pay premium for the quality

 

[SBD-3]

Indian military budget is as it is 5-6 times that of pakistan in absolute numbers .

About bangladesh and sri lanka , india feels no threat for them as we have no major disputes. Sound a bit far-fetched .But yeah investing in Pakistani military one can understand .

Exactly, this is what the policymakers want...expand this to say 10 to 12 times and slowly take it to unsustainable levels....the theory is that military complex is a hole which only gets bigger and bigger...so Chinese want to open it as much as they can and give it every chance to become a black hole

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

the whole idea of two front war with india sounds impossible almost .It seems like Indian military by preparing for the two font war is preparing for the worst while china and Pakistan are preparing for the best . lol

---------- Post added at 01:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------

Exactly, this is what the policymakers want...expand this to say 10 to 12 times and slowly take it to unsustainable levels....the theory is that military complex is a hole which only gets bigger and bigger...so Chinese want to open it as much as they can and give it every chance to become a black hole

Indian economy is growing much faster than pakistani economy and hence the disparity in defence budget will naturally increase without putting any pressure on the Indian economy . Apart from that maintaining defence budget of 5-6 times will be enough for india to counter pakistan. We don't have to take it to 10-12 times.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

Exactly, this is what the policymakers want...expand this to say 10 to 12 times and slowly take it to unsustainable levels....the theory is that military complex is a hole which only gets bigger and bigger...so Chinese want to open it as much as they can and give it every chance to become a black hole

Do you mean so say that we are creating more and more deterrent against china ? Isn't that g good to do that with keeping defence budget in check? Win win situation

 

[SBD-3]

India defense budget is 10 times of Pakistan while pakistan have to live on soft loans still it is less than 2.5 of our GDP on the other hand your defense budget is increasing day by day. So you don't enjoy anything on that front.

Also we are getting top notch aircrafts like MKI, MCRA, C-17, C 130 , P8i etc. on the other hand you are getting chinese product who are still evolving and are no match of their western counterparts. remember U have to pay premium for the quality

Here the Chinese come with an "antidot" they allow for local production which means localization of platform local costs..no external drainage...and secondly Pakistan dont usually need any plan to keep 1-1 superiority...its even fine with 2-1 superiority.....so every platform purchased by Pakistan triggers three platform purchase by India....

 

[Pfpilot]

Though I agree with my fellow Pakistanis, is it not a worrying sign that we are ever more reliant on a Chinese political game for something as crucial as defence? Today, granted China needs us as a counter to India, but what if tomorow they find someone else or dont need a diversion to feel secure against the Indian threat...where does that leave Pakistan? In much the similar situation we are in today, in relation to the US no?
I find it a little scary that the financial problems that have plagued us historically, and hence would be unlikely to go away any time soon, leave us at the mercy of more powerful countries playing a game of cat and mouse...doesnt seem like a sustainable strategy.

 

[SBD-3]

the whole idea of two front war with india sounds impossible almost .It seems like Indian military by preparing for the two font war is preparing for the worst while china and Pakistan are preparing for the best . lol

---------- Post added at 01:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 AM ----------



Indian economy is growing much faster than pakistani economy and hence the disparity in defence budget will naturally increase without putting any pressure on the Indian economy . Apart from that maintaining defence budget of 5-6 times will be enough for india to counter pakistan. We don't have to take it to 10-12 times.

It can not grow indefinitely at this pace, even the Indian economy has started to cool down as inflation picks up....this is where the danger lies...when an economy is growing...its just like you have a lot of dog food to feed ur beast....but when you suddenly realise that your dog food can not grow for ever but your beast do, this is where the problem starts

 

[ziaulislam]

ofcourse it has to do with three to one..
in fact India is reluctant even with that it needs a 1 to 10 number really as in 71

thast why they start shouting even when a single f-16 comes..it really look like childish behavior but we see it so often..i mean they were crying with simple military Aid like bullet proof jackets, a few gunship helicopters and few suqadran of f-16s and were telling/pleading america to stop it..
recent suspension of 800 million dollars were brightly welcome in india ..which infact had mostly bullets an d jackets..
does that even make sense!! when these can only be used against militancy..

 

[SBD-3]

Though I agree with my fellow Pakistanis, is it not a worrying sign that we are ever more reliant on a Chinese political game for something as crucial as defence? Today, granted China needs us as a counter to India, but what if tomorow they find someone else or dont need a diversion to feel secure against the Indian threat...where does that leave Pakistan? In much the similar situation we are in today, in relation to the US no?
I find it a little scary that the financial problems that have plagued us historically, and hence would be unlikely to go away any time soon, leave us at the mercy of more powerful countries playing a game of cat and mouse...doesnt seem like a sustainable strategy.

This is where the "antidot" helps....Chinese Pakistan partnership has been from time when China was not a economic giant as it is today. Pakistan is of such economic significance in Asia that even US is forced to keep relationships with Pakistan. The difference between the Chinese and US is that China Pakistan are natural allies....Pakistan can offer China a trade route, a risk free energy corridor, a source of raw materials, a base for setting up export oriented industry near Arabian sea. India centric nature is just an impression created and aided by our Indian friends...Pakistan China relationships always have the potential to evolve to even greater heights, Some people call Pakistan the Isreal of China, I disagree, Israel does not even comes close to yield potential benefits to US as is Pakistan capable for China

 

[ziaulislam]

^^^ what u have to counter them ?

PAF will have to 250 jf-17s ,80 f-16s and 60 j-10s
i personally think JF can handle all above aircrafts in its own home ground in defensive posture with support from awacs and equipped with latest Aesa radar and SD-10B

f-16BLK52 are as good as any aircraft ..j-10 can easly handle su 30 but they will be used for offensive strikes

as always PAF will try maintain a 1/2.5 capablity as it always have(other than lost decade of 90s)
(450 jets vs 800 jets)

---------- Post added at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

Ok so you are assuming that indian economy will not continue to grow between 8-9 % in coming years . Well it was just in one quarter that indian economy just fell below 8 % to 7.8% . Overall the economy will continue to grow at 8 percent . You can have one bad quarter here and there . it even happened with china in their last 30 years of rapid economic growth .Even that 7.8 % is much faster than Pakistan don't you agree ?

About cooling of economy in the past few years , well india grew by 10.4 % in 2010 according to the IMF i.e faster than China which grew at 10.3 % .And yes almost all economies slowed down due to the recession , not just India.

going by assumption that india will not grow fast in the future on the basis of one quarter is not a good idea .

Anyways , we are getting diverted from the main topic. continue discussing the plane.Thank you .

dont know why are you boastin but IMF says china will grow at incredible speed and become largest eco by 2016

india is still growing at under 8 my friend nearly 7 not in double figures as china has for two decades

 

[SBD-3]

we do not have any danger

When even the most dominant exporters like Germany are faltering, where would others stand?...high unemployment in west is a poison for export oriented countries...when people wont have the money they wont buy, next era is for commodity exporters like Australia and Canda as a person may postpone the purchasing decision of a car...but cant do so for bread,wheat and stuff.....The whole world is betting on emerging markets cooling down amid forthcoming storm i wonder you look backwards

 

[sohail.ishaque]

Though I agree with my fellow Pakistanis, is it not a worrying sign that we are ever more reliant on a Chinese political game for something as crucial as defence? Today, granted China needs us as a counter to India, but what if tomorow they find someone else or dont need a diversion to feel secure against the Indian threat...where does that leave Pakistan? In much the similar situation we are in today, in relation to the US no?
I find it a little scary that the financial problems that have plagued us historically, and hence would be unlikely to go away any time soon, leave us at the mercy of more powerful countries playing a game of cat and mouse...doesnt seem like a sustainable strategy.

Its not about looking for Donars all the time.. Time is going to change very soon.. with Pakistan building Gawadar, Road network, Gas pipeline, Aircraft production facility, Sub production facitlity and other projects(and a better govt then this), Pakistan may enter into a category of healthy resources state...

and secondly China will always need us and we'll always need China... we need them for Tech and other benefits...
they need us for may be as a trade route and also we are a big nation...... heavy investments lie here...

Just a decent govt(which we never had) and the situation is going to change very quickly....

 

[Pfpilot]

This is where the "antidot" helps....Chinese Pakistan partnership has been from time when China was not a economic giant as it is today. Pakistan is of such economic significance in Asia that even US is forced to keep relationships with Pakistan. The difference between the Chinese and US is that China Pakistan are natural allies....Pakistan can offer China a trade route, a risk free energy corridor, a source of raw materials, a base for setting up export oriented industry near Arabian sea. India centric nature is just an impression created and aided by our Indian friends...Pakistan China relationships always have the potential to evolve to even greater heights, Some people call Pakistan the Isreal of China, I disagree, Israel does not even comes close to yield potential benefits to US as is Pakistan capable for China

Thanks for the answer. Do you see Pakistani deliver on all that promise though? I wont be so naive as to assume the current situation will be a long term problem. But the inherent instability, whether it is based in Afghanistan or Balochistan or Karachi or any other place is going be there for the foreseeable future. The Chinese will continue to help till the benefits out weight the short comings, I am just not sure if Pakistan will be able to deliver in time before China loses interest.
As you mentioned, developing economies that have been booming over the last decade are steadily grounding to a halt due to another downturn in the western economies. If the Chinese face any sort of crunch, doesnt mean they have no money, but just that they cant spend like they do today, will they be as willing to provide us with military machines at such favourable financial terms, which is the only way we are going to be able to maintain a credible deterrent.

 

[Jungibaaz]

India grew by 7.8 % in last quarters . India did grow 10.4 % last year according to IMF faster than china .
India v China: The X factor | The Economist

Read the first paragraph .

Secondly Isn't pakistan getting 36-48 J-10s ? Or is it 60 as you say ?

my baby cousin grew around 30% last year....
sadly no IMF report

stick to the topic!!!

 

[razgriz19]

Jeez people this is a J-10 thread, not SINO vs INDO economy!!