Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions
- Thread starter EagleEyes
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I think you need to do some more research. The factries that are busy for quite some time with AESA are known. I have seen and read enough to know that they are busy with fighter sized AESA. As far as I know 2 factories are in final developments... Just for the logic, which kind of radar do you hink is attached to balanced beam AEW&C? Do you think a smaller radar is more or less complex then that? Which problems do you think they will have to overcome? I know some of the answers but since you gave a straight forward answer last time I am looking for depth to see how well you know your field of expertise.
Thanks.
Muradk
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You are right Munir, If the J-10 had AESA. We would have them in Thunders by now.
IceCold
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Research regarding what? J-10 has no AESA radar as of now contrary to what is written in the article. The radar of the J-10 is a pulse doppler mechanically slewed planar array one and not an AESA one. Now i am simply unaware of your logic of comparing it with an AWAC. The size of the radar fitted in the AWACS and that off to be fitted in the nose of the J-10, there is one hell of a difference. And by the way if it was so easy to reduce the size of the radar to accomodate into the nost of a fighter jet while keeping the same level of performance, it would have been done years ago. Why do you think that even the EF and rafale did not had an AESA radar? If we go by your theory, they should have had within the first batch as both europe and France are well aware of the AESA radar technology.
To prove my point here is an article from sino defence about the radar of the J-10 which clearly states its not an AESA one. China still has years to go before finally it could come up with a working AESA radar for its J-10 fighter.
J-10 Multirole Fighter Aircraft (Part 2) - SinoDefence.com
I did not say J10 has AESA radar but that two factories are busy making a finished product. Aesa isn't that superduper some some sugest. If they can produce a bigger and more complex ballanced beam then I bet they are not sleeping when it comes to smaler sized fighter radars. Just google AESA and China and you will find enough links to do some research. The logic lies in the fact that one has to think beyond the published papers or posts. If we have to wait till we get a picture then we might skip discussing everything that might become possible in the near future.
No one knows what FC20 exactly is. Yet if you think hard enough and read here and there you might end up knowing more. No one knows about Jxx. Nobody knew about J10 in the past. Yet with one sat pic we could extract a lot more then most posters can imagine.
Let me put it simple. I am not sure whether a test version of AESA is in the J10. I do know that multiple factories are busy with that. I do not understand where you skipped that info or why you get thanks for just saying something I did not conform. Murad did understand it. And indeed, if J10 will have AESA then it is matter of smaller edition with lower technology (just to keep J10 superior and to secure Chinese assets) will end up in the JF17...
No one knows what FC20 exactly is. Yet if you think hard enough and read here and there you might end up knowing more. No one knows about Jxx. Nobody knew about J10 in the past. Yet with one sat pic we could extract a lot more then most posters can imagine.
Let me put it simple. I am not sure whether a test version of AESA is in the J10. I do know that multiple factories are busy with that. I do not understand where you skipped that info or why you get thanks for just saying something I did not conform. Murad did understand it. And indeed, if J10 will have AESA then it is matter of smaller edition with lower technology (just to keep J10 superior and to secure Chinese assets) will end up in the JF17...
IceCold
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If you did not say then why did you ask me to do some more research or did i miss something?
Clearly when i called the article rubbish it was because of the fact that J-10 does not have an AESA radar where as the article was quoting it to have one. For now AESA is something super dupper for the rest of the world and that is exactly why we have not seen many jets flying with an AESA radar other then the US. Both Europe and France much much ahead in aviation industry then China have started to build their own AESA radar for the EF and Rafale much latter as compared to their jet development. ALso while i do not doubt that China will be working day and night to develop their own version of an AESA radar, they are still years behind and alot has to be done to catch up. Now i know they have a working AESA radar for their KJ-200 but then again we are not sure about its performance as compared to its western counterparts. Also to reduce its size and enable it to be fitted into the nose of the J-10 is a challenge within. If that was as simple as you just put it into your words, let me assure you that China would have done it along ago.
Also as far as the logic is concerned and thinking beyond published facts and figures, then let me ask you why in the hell should i google for this issue only? World goes by facts and not what you and me think or perhaps where are creativity leads us. Chinese aviation industry still lacks in many important and crutial aspects and that is exactly where Russia comes into the equation but then again Russia herself has only recently developed an AESA radar which is of not the same calliber as the US APG80 is but its a step in the right direction and only when this radar matures up and Chinese could get their hands on one we may see an AESA radar in the new version of the J-10 called the super 10 or perhaps in the J-xx programe other then that its just an empty whistle.
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Myth_buster_1
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Munir i totally understand your point.. at the moment J-10s dont carry AESA which is obvious and their is no dough that China is developing fighter size AESA...
Nomi929
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So no need to BUY J-10 yet.
IceCold
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Sorry to say but after reading this, i can only wonder how come you are a think tank when you cant even continue a debate with positive input and that backed with facts rather then personal opinions and emotions. What you are doing is all based all your emotions and not facts and since you have nothing solid to base on, i would therefore rest my case here or until you can prove me other wise.
On a side note i never said China isn't working on an AESA radar, i just said they are far from inducting it into their fighter jet.
Sadly your pesonal remarks degrade the forum. If you are not able to understand the logic and developments without seing the reality you miss that extra to become a think tank. I do not have to prove that China is busy with AESA. Just ask Crobato. He can give you the factory numbers and some detail. I am not intrested in personal vendetta or copy paste attitude or personal bashing. But somehow you just want to say the last word, don't you? Love that.
International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Chinas J-10 Jet Fighter: How Much Do We Know?
>>>A Chinese source disclosed in early 2005 that CAC was considering a program to build a "F-35" class fighter. This would likely mean that CAC is considering stealthy, AESA-radar equipped, internal weapon carrying high performance combat aircraft. It is logical that CAC would consider such a "lightweight" fighter project, inasmuch as Shenyang seems to be building "heavy" fighters. Nevertheless, brochures from the 601 Design Institute, usually associated with CAC, appear to indicate they are considering a "heavy" twin-engine 5th generation design that may be in competition with Shenyang’s longstanding 5th generation fighter program. However, Shenyang’s revelation of an advanced forward-swept wing but single-engine 5th generation fighter concept at the recent 2006 Zhuhai Airshow, may mean it also is aiming for an “affordable” next-generation design.
So they are stil busy with J6 according to you? Or do you think that revealing J10 was jus their last card?
>>>A Chinese source disclosed in early 2005 that CAC was considering a program to build a "F-35" class fighter. This would likely mean that CAC is considering stealthy, AESA-radar equipped, internal weapon carrying high performance combat aircraft. It is logical that CAC would consider such a "lightweight" fighter project, inasmuch as Shenyang seems to be building "heavy" fighters. Nevertheless, brochures from the 601 Design Institute, usually associated with CAC, appear to indicate they are considering a "heavy" twin-engine 5th generation design that may be in competition with Shenyang’s longstanding 5th generation fighter program. However, Shenyang’s revelation of an advanced forward-swept wing but single-engine 5th generation fighter concept at the recent 2006 Zhuhai Airshow, may mean it also is aiming for an “affordable” next-generation design.
So they are stil busy with J6 according to you? Or do you think that revealing J10 was jus their last card?
Probably not true but still signs of activity.... More then your word that they do not have.
>>>
China develops advanced avionicsnews
20 August 2007
China's new J10A fighter uses a hi-tech active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The country revealed its range of military AESA radars recently, after years of intense research and development.
AESA systems consist of thousands of tiny radars that make it possible to track many different targets simultaneously. China claims its new J10A radar can track 10 targets at a time and attack four of them simultaneously with long-range missiles.
The J10 is also completely Chinese made, though it looks very similar to the American F-16 and even weighs about the same (19 tonnes). Like the F-16 (and unlike the Russian Su-27), the J10 has only one engine, the new Chinese WS10A, developed after a decade of development. Originally, the J10 used a Russian AL-31FN engine.
The J10 resembles the F-16 because Israel is supposed to have secretly sold China the technology for the Israeli Lavi jet fighter after Israel itself abandoned the Lavi project because it was cheaper to buy F-16s and F-15s from the United States.
The Lavi was meant to be a super F-16, and the Israelis had developed new components for the plane. China has about a dozen J10As in service. The numbers will increase once the WS10A engine is put into production, in a year or two. China has long sought jet engine and AESA technology from the US, and has often been accused of espionage for the purpose.
>>>
China develops advanced avionicsnews
20 August 2007
China's new J10A fighter uses a hi-tech active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar. The country revealed its range of military AESA radars recently, after years of intense research and development.
AESA systems consist of thousands of tiny radars that make it possible to track many different targets simultaneously. China claims its new J10A radar can track 10 targets at a time and attack four of them simultaneously with long-range missiles.
The J10 is also completely Chinese made, though it looks very similar to the American F-16 and even weighs about the same (19 tonnes). Like the F-16 (and unlike the Russian Su-27), the J10 has only one engine, the new Chinese WS10A, developed after a decade of development. Originally, the J10 used a Russian AL-31FN engine.
The J10 resembles the F-16 because Israel is supposed to have secretly sold China the technology for the Israeli Lavi jet fighter after Israel itself abandoned the Lavi project because it was cheaper to buy F-16s and F-15s from the United States.
The Lavi was meant to be a super F-16, and the Israelis had developed new components for the plane. China has about a dozen J10As in service. The numbers will increase once the WS10A engine is put into production, in a year or two. China has long sought jet engine and AESA technology from the US, and has often been accused of espionage for the purpose.
Let us look at Janes...
>>>China working on 'Super-10' advanced fighter
09 January 2006
China working on 'Super-10' advanced fighter
By Henry Ivanov JDW Correspondent
Moscow
China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control, stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar, according to Russian sources.
Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK-MiG) specialists, contracted to provide technical assistance to Chinese design houses, said the enhancement to the J-10 airframe is a logical step, since the fighter was initially intended to have the compact Pratt&Whitney PW1120 engine that powered the Israeli Lavi aircraft, which served as a basis for the J-10.
However, the imposition of US export restrictions forced the decision to install the 20 per cent heavier Russian AL-31FN engine, which requires a larger intake as it needs 40 per cent more air flow.
In late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27's AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox. At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for the AL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.
The company's general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the "Chinese Super-10 fighter". Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut's Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during
You can say where there is smoke there will be some fire... And frankly I rather look at more sources and then say something logical then a personal flame that think tank member should know better...
[You can find the rest yourself... I bet you know how to handle Google]
>>>China working on 'Super-10' advanced fighter
09 January 2006
China working on 'Super-10' advanced fighter
By Henry Ivanov JDW Correspondent
Moscow
China is developing an advanced version of the Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC) J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, referred to as the Super-10, with a more powerful engine, thrust-vector control, stronger airframe and passive phased-array radar, according to Russian sources.
Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG (RSK-MiG) specialists, contracted to provide technical assistance to Chinese design houses, said the enhancement to the J-10 airframe is a logical step, since the fighter was initially intended to have the compact Pratt&Whitney PW1120 engine that powered the Israeli Lavi aircraft, which served as a basis for the J-10.
However, the imposition of US export restrictions forced the decision to install the 20 per cent heavier Russian AL-31FN engine, which requires a larger intake as it needs 40 per cent more air flow.
In late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27's AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox. At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for the AL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.
The company's general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the "Chinese Super-10 fighter". Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut's Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during
You can say where there is smoke there will be some fire... And frankly I rather look at more sources and then say something logical then a personal flame that think tank member should know better...
[You can find the rest yourself... I bet you know how to handle Google]
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