Chengdu J-10 Multirole Fighter Air Craft News & Discussions

[PAFAce]

How DARPA allocate research fundings is independent of the US Congress budgeting process. The unclassified DARPA budget is here...

DARPA | DARPA Budget

DARPA's research budget is anywhere between 3-4 bils. That is a pittance compared to how much those Saudi princes squandered their oil wealth.

Saudi Prince's Firm Loses $8.3B in 4Q - ABC News

The reason why DARPA in specific, and the US in general, is so successful at implementing seemingly esoteric research into working models is because of the diversity of the native US technology base. When I left avionics a decade ago and entered semiconductor manufacturing, it never entered my mind that semicon manufacturing techniques and technology could be applicable to aviation. Then one day a friend who remained in avionics called me up and asked a few questions regarding photo 'steppers'...

And I have always maintained that no country, not even the mighty Russia, can match the US in technology due to their quality and pace of R&D precisely due to organizations like DARPA and NASA and due to the great many fields in whichthe US maintains a significant edge.

By the way, just curious, whose spearheading the semiconductor based active-stealth technology? One of the major manufacturers of semicon devices would have to involved (Intel, AMD, Actel, IBM, TI, etc.) which is it?

 

[gambit]

And I have always maintained that no country, not even the mighty Russia, can match the US in technology due to their quality and pace of R&D precisely due to organizations like DARPA and NASA and due to the great many fields in whichthe US maintains a significant edge.

The Soviets had a 'brute force' approach to technological advancement...

Secret Cities

On the eve of the Great Patriotic War the Soviet military-industrial complex created a number of new other towns and cities for weapons development and manufacturing. The creation of such "town-forming enterprises" accelerated during the War, as much of the Soviet military industrial infrastructure was relocated beyond the reach of Hitler's advancing armies.

In response to the immense challenge of the unfolding East-West arms race, Stalin decided to create dozens of centers of research and development excellence in the USSR. Some of these so-called "Naukograds" [Science Towns] were "Akademgorodok" [Academic Cities} devoted to basic research. Others were secret cities which were to provide the technical foundation for Soviet military technology - sputniks, long-range missiles, thermonuclear warheads of extreme yield. Among the work performed in such places were chemical, biological and nuclear weapons research and manufacturing, enrichment of plutonium, space research, and military intelligence work.

By the way, just curious, whose spearheading the semiconductor based active-stealth technology? One of the major manufacturers of semicon devices would have to involved (Intel, AMD, Actel, IBM, TI, etc.) which is it?

As far as I personally know? No one company is leading. I am guessing that this is just one of many possibilities being explored at this time. Current knowledge of absorber materials indicate that with increasing oblique angle far less energy is absorbed. Plus decreasing material thickness decreases bandwidth absorbed. Increasing material thickness would return those bandwidth losses but would increase weight and maintenance requirements, but that would still leave the incidence angle versus absorbed energy problem. So increasing material thickness is not an option for an aircraft and that would leave semicon techniques in contention as we work in very small scale.

Metamaterials, meaning man-made materials that have properties that does not exist in nature, is under serious consideration. Photolithography technology to etch patterns for these new materials seems to be the best avenue so far, but that is just my guess. Hydroflouric acid (HF) is toxic and is used daily for our silicon wafers. I doubt that HF would be useful to clean composite materials in order for us to lay in patterns for the metamaterials. The HF would probably destroy the panel. I can already guess at least ten major problems right off the top. But this is how DARPA works, let the industries who are already experts evaluate the possibilities and create solutions, then shelf the information away until needed. My parent company is Intel and we donate plenty of equipments to universities. Many of these university labs are ISO certified. If several labs managed to correlate the new technology among themselves, then the next logical step is to let the manufacturing facilities figure out how to mass produce.

 

[Arsalan]

Originally Posted by araz
Ice cold.
For every stage of development in fighters there have been comparable US and EU fighters. Why not 5th Generation? This is something that bugs me. If you think EU is just contributing, why have they not done so and reaped the harvest of American work? I am not saying i am right or wrong. Like any novice it is one of those things that bug you. If the answer is simply reinventing the wheel, then why rafale and EF and gripen?
Do you see where I am coming from?
Araz

sir cannt it be a case of allainace on a much large scale then we expect. i mean you can not see any american project on any other true 4.5 generation plane. with the F18 and all getting older they US may require to replace this fleet of F16, F 18 and all that. now considering the ost of F22 and the cost of F35 for its value, i dont hink that all of the existing fleet will be replace by merely these two projects!
in thats case the US will be accquiring a 4.5 generation plane and that amy come from EU. i know it sounds a bit unrealistic to say US importing war machines but then four or five decades back no on would have thought of the strong relation that exist between US and Japan or Us and germany! !
is there any chance of a situation where we can see the F35 becomming the power punch in all of europe and the EF, rafale and gripens making the it to US market as a fill-in for maintaining good number of aircrafts!!

i admit that the post seems a bit too childish for one's liking but still we have seen the world changing its diplomacy at a rapid pace, havent we??
looking forward to your thoughts!

regards!

 

[araz]

sir cannt it be a case of allainace on a much large scale then we expect. i mean you can not see any american project on any other true 4.5 generation plane. with the F18 and all getting older they US may require to replace this fleet of F16, F 18 and all that. now considering the ost of F22 and the cost of F35 for its value, i dont hink that all of the existing fleet will be replace by merely these two projects!
in thats case the US will be accquiring a 4.5 generation plane and that amy come from EU. i know it sounds a bit unrealistic to say US importing war machines but then four or five decades back no on would have thought of the strong relation that exist between US and Japan or Us and germany! !
is there any chance of a situation where we can see the F35 becomming the power punch in all of europe and the EF, rafale and gripens making the it to US market as a fill-in for maintaining good number of aircrafts!!

i admit that the post seems a bit too childish for one's liking but still we have seen the world changing its diplomacy at a rapid pace, havent we??
looking forward to your thoughts!

regards!

Ice cold and Arsalan
In its history America has not bought any arms from any other nation . Regarding the JSF and their alleged alliance with EU they have been at loggerheads with EU with transfer of sensitive technology to EU so much so that a few of the countries have threatened to cancel their orders. To date the matter remains unresolved to the best of my knowledge(feel free to let me know if the matter is otherwise)
American philosophy and its wars are propagated to keep its cartel of armaments industries active and happy. I think it is against its basic philosophy to compromise it by buying arms from elsewhere. As to why it does not have 4.75 gen fighters, it can afford to keep upgrading its current inventory and still keep ahead of its competition.So we keep seeing reinventions of later blocks of f15, 16, and 18s. I think they will produce a lot of f35s but not enough F22s, as the price is not worth the effort. So where will all the knowledge go? It will be integrated into some old planes to upgrade them and sell them on and the rest goes into the 6th generation research.
So guys there you have it. These are my thoughts and the reasons behind it.
Araz

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Except for Berretta.

 

[niaz]

Ice cold and Arsalan
In its history America has not bought any arms from any other nation . Regarding the JSF and their alleged alliance with EU they have been at loggerheads with EU with transfer of sensitive technology to EU so much so that a few of the countries have threatened to cancel their orders. To date the matter remains unresolved to the best of my knowledge(feel free to let me know if the matter is otherwise)
American philosophy and its wars are propagated to keep its cartel of armaments industries active and happy. I think it is against its basic philosophy to compromise it by buying arms from elsewhere. As to why it does not have 4.75 gen fighters, it can afford to keep upgrading its current inventory and still keep ahead of its competition.So we keep seeing reinventions of later blocks of f15, 16, and 18s. I think they will produce a lot of f35s but not enough F22s, as the price is not worth the effort. So where will all the knowledge go? It will be integrated into some old planes to upgrade them and sell them on and the rest goes into the 6th generation research.
So guys there you have it. These are my thoughts and the reasons behind it.
Araz

Hon Araz,

British Harrier was purchased by the US for use with the Marine Corps. Later US improved it to AV-8B but the first AV-8As that entered service with US Marines in the early 70’s were totally British.

After the success of Israeli battlefield UAV's had proven a great success in destroying Syrian missile sites in 1982: US Navy asked Israel Aircraft Industries to submit a proposal for battlefield UAV in 1984. This was later produced in the US with active Israeli participation.

US also buys weapons from abroad, albeit very rarely.

 

[Arsalan]

Hon Araz,

British Harrier was purchased by the US for use with the Marine Corps. Later US improved it to AV-8B but the first AV-8As that entered service with US Marines in the early 70’s were totally British.

After the success of Israeli battlefield UAV's had proven a great success in destroying Syrian missile sites in 1982: US Navy asked Israel Aircraft Industries to submit a proposal for battlefield UAV in 1984. This was later produced in the US with active Israeli participation.

US also buys weapons from abroad, albeit very rarely.

yes it may well be true that US had some foreign equipment in there military service but the thig is that there ratio to there own systems is almost negligiable! considering this and the fact that US have gone far ahead of the world in all the department, it seems unlikely that US will go for a foreign project as big as a 4.5 generation fighter plane. but then what are there choices?? i agree with the point that F35 will be procured in larger amount but it wont ever be enough to repace the entire fleet of 4th generation planes they have, moreover i think they will soon realize that the F35 is also a bit too expensive relative to the value it offers. keeping all this stuff in mind that they will focus on the reported upgradation plan for there F18 fleet, in addition to this may accquire a fet F15 silent eagles and then complement them with F35 and F22!
the option of going for EU 4.5 or maybe 4.75 planes would have been a good option rather then investing on F18 but it donot think it will be going with the US approach.
so to conclude that we may see a decade or so of EU relaiance on US for high tech planes and having nothing to offer in return (except dollars ofcourse )

regards!

 

[Hunter911]

Carefully leaked secret! Pakistan Air Force is to tame it?Why China does not sell it in North Korea?
Who knows the exact answer?

 

[applesauce]

Carefully leaked secret! Pakistan Air Force is to tame it?Why China does not sell it in North Korea?
Who knows the exact answer?

what are you trying to say??? i cant quite understand, as for korea..... they cant afford food let alone a decent jet fighter

 

[Hunter911]

Recently, some media to the Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman asked whether the Government of China to North Korea once again rejected the sale of J-10.
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman's reply to some vague:There is no such news to hear.
North Korea did not qualify for J-10, North Korea‘s behavior is like a replica of Vietnam.

 

[mean_bird]

it seems unlikely that US will go for a foreign project as big as a 4.5 generation fighter plane.

The next gen aircraft (X35?) is being co-developed with Germany. Even the lead test pilot is a german.

 

[Hunter911]

This is the logic of Chinese engineers, sir.

jf-17would defeated f-16c/d.I'm sure.

 

[Hunter911]

I agree with your view .But it has been painted the body with material to absorb radar waves! Believe it or not as you like .One japanese Air Force F-2 fighter aircraft had been locked by J-10 with it's radar .

 

[Arsalan]

The next gen aircraft (X35?) is being co-developed with Germany. Even the lead test pilot is a german.

well it is a surprisw package if true.
i have not been able to find anything relevant to any such programme, it will surely be helpfull if you can post some report or linl regarding this news as it will somewhat conclude the whole discussion!!
waiting for yor response!

regards!

 

[mean_bird]

well it is a surprisw package if true.
i have not been able to find anything relevant to any such programme, it will surely be helpfull if you can post some report or linl regarding this news as it will somewhat conclude the whole discussion!!
waiting for yor response!

regards!

Here you go -- Its the X31

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell-MBB_X-31