Changing times: Ijtihad and other questions Muslims must revisit

[syedali73]

There are no surprises there. I have said it many many times on many many threads that Islamic punishments such as amputation etc., are applicable only in a true Islamic welfare system where nobody has to steal to satisfy the hell of hunger. Once the system is perfect and everybody is looked after, taken care of, as was practiced in the earlier days, only then should punishments such as amputations be allowed because then the thief is not driven by his/her basic needs but his greed and desire.

True indeed, however, punishments were/are not suspended for those who were/are stealing out of greed/habit and not for mere survival. Amputation must not be taken as THE only form of punishment for stealing, rather an exemplary punishment. In todays world, amputation is not acceptable, however, a punishment equal in severity (such as life imprisonment) can be given by the justice.

 

[syedali73]

uhhh, talawat always looks so pure and innocent, i doubt it will be a sexy voice as i have heard many females reciting the Quran and presenting a Naat you know.
now let us suppose this is true, then why is a man allowed to lead women, wont they find his voice "sexy"?
the most suitable method i find here is men leading men and women leading women.

You are a man and I am a man and we both KNOW VERY WELL that when it is about a woman (minus mother and sister), our brains always think dirty, ALWAYS, I repeat ALWAYS. Now cut the crap and move on will you? Thanks.

 

[Dubious]

As per my understanding about quranic verses they are biased against women....

Please do elaborate

Rest bolded parts reminding me about stance of male chauvinism exist in our respective society...

well you need to understand the biology based on physiology, psychology, chemistry, even something out of science like emotions and feelings of a man and woman....there are differences and if you deny its only lying to yourself...


Not everything can be pointed to chauvinism some is natural and if it can be limited by women not leading so be it!

Many here in India, educated males blames female dresses for crimes against women ....

Now that maybe chauvinism IF the male himself didnt take precautionary measures....If he did and the woman still tempted him than its both fault...what is the need for a woman to wear tempting clothes in the first place? I have asked this question not a single soul can answer me....There is no need it is want

A want to be appreciated to be noticed on the boundaries the woman sets...

How is that not feminist? You can label everything with something....Hence we have a buffer ask the man to lower his gaze and ask the woman to do so too and cover up in modesty...the man play their part and the woman play theirs (as per the religion so that you are legible to blame it later) ...IF then something goes wrong then we can sit down and discuss but when neither plays their parts then why blame religion?

If a person cant raise above himself his sexuality for a sec then why he even going mosque for praying just for the sake doing it(Same logic is applicable to Hindus too who visit temple to offer their pray)......

Why is he going to the mosque? To get closer to god not to what he already witnesses each day ...to be in the presence of many who came for the same struggle helps (psychological experiments prove that if many people are doing something it helps boost the esteem of people to continue hence why we have different communities - social, sport, religious..)

Akheilos plz don't,support mentality of rapist here by invoking so called offensive female sexuality ......

How am I having the mentality of a rapist when I am stating what science tells me (WITH PROOF based on psychological and neurological experiments) ???


It did disgust me how when talking about latest science (neurology) some say I have the mentality of a rapist!

Well tell me what such a mentality is since you know so well?

 

[Jf Thunder]

These are not laid based on fatwahs but backed with sahih hadith.....
Fatwah is only an opinion and can change but what the prophet showed us is what we should do....

fair enough

That is up to men to decide....
I never said that and you need not extrapolate either learn the subject and have enough patience to do so or dont learn it and be like the typical Pakistani who goes to the pir to be spoon fed whatever shit the pir feels like

i dont believe in this Pir and Mureed things, nor do i eat shit from a spoon, so i think i might learn a bit maybe

 

[Dubious]

As per me problem lies here when you emphasize that there is nothing wrong in gods words i.e quaran then why only Muslim(Muslims are very religious than any other followers of other religions) worlda under the grip of such chaotic situations....?

Who are you kidding? Which part of the World is free from problems?

As far as vedas are concerned i wont follow my vedas if they also start preaching same biases n you can bring here any verse n i will criticize it by disassociation of mine to,such texts......

I am not learned in the Vedas and have no rights to criticize that which I have no knowledge off....

2nd you wont follow the vedas and expect everyone to be the same as you to drop and stop looking for the truth? How different is that from the Mullah and pir who want you to do exactly what they say.....

 

[Dubious]

This exposes your narrow understanding of Islam. Please before contributing more in this thread, Do research on Ijtihad done by Caliph Hazrat Umar (RA) on Mutaa marriage and the inclusion of a single line in Prayer Fajr, A Surah from Quran was excluded and temporary suspension of all the Quranic Punishments during the great calamity when people were forced to steal food and water and He banned hand chopping, whipping people on the basis Islamic government is incapable of providing relief to the people hence are in no position to give punishments

I read the link you gave in

I'm going out, until I come back I will provide the source. The reason of exclusion was, IIRC, due to to different versions of Quran that existed at that time, once he found the anamoly, He excluded it.

And about great famine and plague, It's a well known incident during his era. You would find dozen of references on internet.

Islamic World: Hazrat Umar - The Second Caliph of Islam

But it didnt give me the answer to what you wrote:

Ijtihad done by Caliph Hazrat Umar (RA) on Mutaa marriage
inclusion of a single line in Prayer Fajr
A Surah from Quran was excluded

temporary suspension of Quranic Punishments during the great calamity when people were forced to steal food and water and He banned hand chopping, whipping people on the basis Islamic government is incapable of providing relief to the people hence are in no position to give punishments

I do believe it is there somewhere but since I have never read this part so I asked....

 

[Dubious]

True indeed, however, punishments were/are not suspended for those who were/are stealing out of greed/habit and not for mere survival. Amputation must not be taken as THE only form of punishment for stealing, rather an exemplary punishment. In todays world, amputation is not acceptable, however, a punishment equal in severity (such as life imprisonment) can be given by the justice.

Seems like it keeps going in circles no matter how many times I post as I did on few threads the questions just come back ....

 

[Jf Thunder]

Seems like it keeps going in circles no matter how many times I post as I did on few threads the questions just come back ....

lolllzz, thats why i stopped posting, even though i have a really vast amount of knowledge in this subject (sarcasm intended)

 

[Dubious]

so i think i might learn a bit maybe

Here is a video site for you to learn.....

Quran Gems & Miracles in Kinetic Typography on Vimeo

Quran Gems & Miracles | Kinetic typography - YouTube

 

[narcon]

@Mav3rick

1. Death for leaving Islam was perhaps relevant in the earlier times when there were not many Muslims but it appears not to be mandatory since there is no mention of this kind of punishment in Quran..

Okey. So far so good.

What about punishment meted out to worthy candidates based on Sunnah/Hadeeth, which form part of Sharia - Is it irrelevant?

 

[syedali73]

well you need to understand the biology based on physiology, psychology, chemistry, even something out of science like emotions and feelings of a man and woman....there are differences and if you deny its only lying to yourself...

A female colleague of mine once summed it up very nicely... "Men like to watch **** and women like to read romantic novels". Men think dirty, almost always and this is an undeniable fact. This is not their fault, this is their biology, testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are the culprits. The only way of getting rid of most but not all of the testosterone -related dirty thinking is orchiectomy, and there is no other way. Yes, Allah has advised men (and women) to fast to control their urge.

 

[Jf Thunder]

A female colleague of mine once summed it up very nicely... "Men like to watch **** and women like to read romantic novels". Men think dirty, almost always and this is an undeniable fact. This is not their fault, this is their biology, testosterone and dihydrotestosterone are the culprits. The only way of getting rid of most but not all of the testosterone -related dirty thinking is orchiectomy, and there is no other way. Yes, Allah has advised men (and women) to fast to control their urge.

But Allah has also given men the option to control it, dude you wont be getting "thawab" just for sitting in some place and doing "poondi" when you control your urges then you will get a reward, nothing is free, so men should control it, and not put the whole blame on women

 

[syedali73]

Seems like it keeps going in circles no matter how many times I post as I did on few threads the questions just come back ....

So you think those who are repeatedly posting similar question are into learning? They are not, for they are only interested in obtaining a favorite answer. If I were you, I would never waste my time by repeatedly answering the similar questions.

 

[Dubious]

So you think those who are repeatedly posting similar question are into learning? They are not, for they are only interested in obtaining a favorite answer. If I were you, I would never waste my time by repeatedly answering the similar questions.

Well I see it as I learn too when I go hunting for a verse or hadith to explain the confusion

 

[syedali73]

Well I see it as I learn too when I go hunting for a verse or hadith to explain the confusion

Converts need not to be converted, and non-believers will never get converted no matter what you throw at them; if I have learnt something truly useful over half a decade of my life, it is perhaps this.