Changing sides

[ArmyInfoForum]

Changing sides

I always believed that India is close ally with Russia – and in case of Pakistan – my believes go to partnership - Pakistan & USA.

Am I wrong when I say that those things changed in last few years – India become close ally with USA especially in case of confronting with China. Pakistan changes its Ally removing USA from list and making good deals with China and possibly with Russia.

Did I make some mistakes or? Perhaps relationships are something difficult to explain but I am rather to believe in my words looking what’s happening here in last few years – but I will gladly hear your personal opinions end explanations – If somebody have some questions about old SFRJ (Old Yugoslavia) freely ask me – Perhaps I know much more about that than you – I will answer if I can – normally in deferent topic.

Ok for the beginning this is it.

AIF

 

[yarmook]

Well,

In international affairs,things are quite hoping around. Honestly, speaking Pakistan gave alot to US by becoming its staunch ally as compare to India which had always double standards in maintaining its close ties with Soviets and then US.

It was there double standards, that when Soviets were thinking that India was there close ally, soon after 1964(Chinas nucleartest) approx 1300 scientist went to States to get training on nuclear transfer technology. And on the same time, Indians were being equipped with Soviet arsenals in there inventories.

Lets bring light on PAkistan, since late 1950s after the adoption of pro States policies, Pakistan has been supporting and providing all the support it could for USA. Pakistan was the key countries which established the first ever direct links betwene USA and China. Apart from that , during cold war, Pakistan faced alot of criticism from Soviets for there pro US policies, its logistic support for US to carry out reconesance missions over Soviets. And even during the Afghan jehad.

The answer to your question is yes Pakistan has been staunch ally of US, but in the current decade, with the visible political and economical shift of India toward US. And India being self appraised, is now challenging almost every one in the world and is being more obedient to US for getting its good grace against the red dragon (China).

And this drift is apparent to everyone, in which US under the false impression of economic partners wants to bring India under its rule and use it against China effectively. This may or may not have been imagined by Soviets, but this has been a prt of grand strategy to dominate resources around the world. As a matter of fact, according t ome in few years, new block may appear on the world stage Russia, China Pakistan and Iran(perhaps).

Russia hav seen Indians double standards and Pakistan is now more willing to adopt pro Russian policy which may provide win win situation for both. Pakistan may once again think to provide logistic support to Russian through gawadar, like it had been decided in favor of China. Pakistan is also looking to strengthen its defence and economical ties with Russia.

Pakistan and China have always been very very cordial. And its not a new thing for Pakistan to hav China as strong friend.

On the other hand, new group is arising, Australia, India , Taiwaan and US.

Friend this is allgoing very interesting and nice and easy and it is the part of grand strategy which have yet to show its fruitful results. And once again bring the world with system of check and balance.

I hope my views give you some ideas of clarity.

 

[bhangra12345]

Yarmook,

You are seeing too much in your crystal gaze.

Russia, India, China, US are too big a countries to come under any other countries tutelage.

Observe China, it is a communist country but was in the US block since 1971 and not in the soviet block.

The dynamics are too many and you have to also realize the interdependence the globalization has created. You put China and US in the opposite groups and think that they will lead the groups, but do you realize that the whole of China's boom is dependent on its exports to US, which they cant jeopardize in the foreseeable future? Similar is the case for US.

There will sure be friction between US and china, but it will be for the most part the cold war, but without overt hostility. Strategic equations also changed because all the countries are nuclear states and so just as US and USSR didnt go for an overt war, similarly none of the above countries will go.

It will be for the most part, an economic war with tieups with all the countries at different levels, all will be sweet and candy on the outside, but pushes and nudges will be the most important part of the game.

 

[roadrunner]

Russia, India, China, US are too big a countries to come under any other countries tutelage.

You might be able to put China in that group that doesnt need "tutelage", but India doesn't fit in there. Not yet anyway for sure. India gets all it's technology from Russia, and bits from the US or Europe. Not much of it is indigenously developed at all.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

So this discussion has started up again. Where is Josh when you needed him!!!

Russia is a free nation--a lots of oil revenue and extra money-----the old pride is being revived again. So, they are back on track where they belong. China controls too much of american dollars---china also has a lots of cash at hands with a very strong industrial, technical, manufacturing and research base---Even though,they maybe manufacturing copies, but china can produce their own weapons now from scratch----india on the other hand has nothing to offer except to create fear in the mind of americans.

As usual, india has found another big brother in the face and form of
U S on whose shoulders they have decided to move into the world forum as the next super power and policeman of asia. Look at this---what technology does india have to be a superpower--none--they have nothing that they manufacture on their own that is substantial, except for their computer industry and call centres, they have nothing that they have created which may put them in league with the other super powers----except for the fear that they have put into the minds of the americans about pakistan, china and iran----it is all about deceit and deception that has brought about their progression.

Indians are very fortunate that when things happened, republicans were in power---and those republicans were in power who would sell america for money----if the democrats were in power at that time, these call centers would have stayed in america----even though the democrats like indians, they would not have sold the american jobs to the indians. But then that is a past tense now.

Fascinating isn't it that the next to be super power can't even design and manufacture an automobile engine on its own.

 

[yarmook]

Yarmook,

You are seeing too much in your crystal gaze.

Oh thanks a heaps budddd!

Russia, India, China, US are too big a countries to come under any other countries tutelage.

Well, not exactly to work under, but they might very well cooperate with eachothr to compliment each others and there own interests

Observe China, it is a communist country but was in the US block since 1971 and not in the soviet block.

Look my Indddian bollywood inspired friend, this is what i highlighted earlier that even if CHina got in good relation with US that was becaue of Pakistans diplomatic efforts to bring china closer to US. Look up the history u ll find it yourself. Even China got friendly with US in 1970s it remained a good supporting Soviet Block.

The dynamics are too many and you have to also realize the interdependence the globalization has created.

So i cant put Inddia in stead of Red Dragon. They deserve to be there and they fit in the best slot budddd.

You put China and US in the opposite groups and think that they will lead the groups, but do you realize that the whole of China's boom is dependent on its exports to US, which they cant jeopardize in the foreseeable future? Similar is the case for US..

Your right to some extent my INDDDDDDDIAN friend but not exactly right, all of China export depends on US but look for new markets it has discovered may be your not aware, China has estyablished its export markets as far as NewZealand Australia. Europe and almost every nook of this world. China is not making itself solely dependent on US instead its making US economy dependent on itself. Unlike stereominded type Indians, they have discovered many other avenues besides CALL CENTREs to make US economy dependent on them.

There will sure be friction between US and china, but it will be for the most part the cold war, but without overt hostility. Strategic equations also changed because all the countries are nuclear states and so just as US and USSR didnt go for an overt war, similarly none of the above countries will go.

Well said, but that power bubble might burst with initiation of minor skirmishes across the globe, Russian entangeled in Arctic forexample, and Chinese with taiwanese might scatter the overall thrust of INDO-US block and beat them.

It will be for the most part, an economic war with tieups with all the countries at different levels, all will be sweet and candy on the outside, but pushes and nudges will be the most important part of the game.

Yep!!!!!

 

[blitz]

Again lines after lines are being wasted on bogus, self-gratifying analysis and conclusions. Let me break it down. IMVHO

For India:

Russia = Dependable Ally in general
USA = Ally of convinience

Ofcourse in world politics, there are no permanent enemies, nor permanent friends.

 

[Munir]

The fact is simple:

-By giving India nuclear tech the USA can rob oil as long as possible.
-By making India stronger they can slow growth rate of China which will be the superpower within the next decade.

 

[blitz]

The fact is simple:

-By giving India nuclear tech the USA can rob oil as long as possible.
-By making India stronger they can slow growth rate of China which will be the superpower within the next decade.

Oh lord, its like arguing with children around here, the same nonesensical musings again and again.

China GDP(nominal): $2.6 trillion (IMF 2006)

USA GDP(nominal): $13.2 trillion (IMF 2006)

Now what makes you think that China will surpass the USA withing 10 years ? Even if China doubles its GDP within the next ten years, they still would be hovering at around $5.2 trillion, barely above Japan and less than half the US GDP assuming the USA stops growing completely today.

As for technological gap, although its an intangible asset, its safe to assume that the US is decades ahead in every field. Come on, don't tell me you are going to contest even that.

Those are not super power stats my friend, especially compared to what China is up against.


Now give China another 20 years and they may start approaching the US, assuming that everything goes according to plan, for China that is.

Admin Edit: Keep personal remarks to yourself.

 

[ArmyInfoForum]

If I saw well, my definition or my ideas are correct – You surely have some other idea why and how that occurred but its ok.

Only one short notice – China has been in dance with western countries against Russia very short period, after clash with Russia. They exploited very well that situation buying lots of small quantities of modern weapons which they latter “reinvent” or copy-ed and mass produced – nothing more than that.

Normally I also noticed one new economic (Military block) named Quadrilateral Initiative (USA, Australia, Japan and India) – but I think it is mainly connected with making strong support for India and its future behaviour in case of Pakistan and especially China. I have doubts that Taiwan will have and role in that pact, but who knows. Also interesting is that Russia make some obvious moves to renter area of Indonesia and Malaysia – which will than lead to control “and” break apart of any “initiative” in that part of world. Simply – controlling Malacca strait and parts of South Chinese sea will simple make some military communication trough those waters very virtual – Maybe I am wrong in some detail but I saw those moves in that manner – Any other idea?

AIF