Cede Afghanistan to satellite status under Pakistan

[Cheetah786]

Here's a novel idea, why don't Afghans decide for themselves what kind of a nation they want.

Hey Great idea why dont we also apply the same to kashmere

 

[muse]

So the indian can respond, "great, lets apply it to Balouchistan as well"?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So the indian can respond, "great, lets apply it to Balouchistan as well"?

Wonderful, lets apply it to Indian Punjab and the North East States as well...

There is a difference between internationally recognized disputed territory and intra-state tensions in undisputed territory.

In any case, India had her chance in East Pakistan any way.

 

[muse]

Easy, I know all the arguments - all I'm saying is that if we just give them breathing space, none of these formulations will be necessary.

Afghans feel a almost congenital need to thumb their nose at Pakistan and it's because they realize the emptyness, the hollowness of the propaganda that passes for education there - everywhere the Afghan looks, he sees Pakistan, please trust me on this - there is no item, no govt plan, no social idea, that does not have a Pakistan connection - just please trust me on this.

"Friends not Masters" was good for Pakistan, it's good for Afghania as well.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Easy, I know all the arguments - all I'm saying is that if we just give them breathing space, none of these formulations will be necessary.

Afghans feel a almost congenital need to thumb their nose at Pakistan and it's because they realize the emptyness, the hollowness of the propaganda that passes for education there - everywhere the Afghan looks, he sees Pakistan, please trust me on this - there is no item, no govt plan, no social idea, that does not have a Pakistan connection - just please trust me on this.

"Friends not Masters" was good for Pakistan, it's good for Afghania as well.

Muse,

I am in complete agreement with your first post in this thread - yet unless the Afghans (or at least the GoA) determines that is also in their interest to not (inadvertently or advertently) function as an Indian proxy against Pakistan, then no matter of 'friends not masters' attitude from Pakistan's side resolves the issue of regional tensions.

 

[muse]

Yes, certainly - but remember the GoIRoA is still barely learning to crawl.

Yes, I know they like to play the rebellious juvenile, but you will see the reality of things when you are there - from Fauji Vanaspati, to you name it, It's all from Pakistan - even their Information Operations on radio stations now use Urdu messages.

They may never be the kinds of friends we should like, they may think we misunderstand them (as others see us now) but I agree with you so long as they are not posing a security problem, hands off.

 

[Watani]

If Pakistani government blames India for whatever then fine, but I cannot believe some people still think Afghanistan is interested in destruction of Pakistan. The Warlords in Afghanistan are complete idiots who don't even know how to control their own country and people here believe they are after Pakistan? All they are after is, is money which is being provided in Afghanistan already, they don't even need to look elsewhere for that. As in why Afghanistan can't do anything on it's own? Look at the state the country is in and if you know what has happened since last three decades then you will get your answer. Everyone is power hungry and because some of them have done a good job defeating the Russians, they think they can have whole of Afghanistan for them and expect everyone to support them. Many tribes in Afghanistan are being brain washed by several people from other countries and because at least half of the country is uneducated and lives below the poverty line, they trust anything and anyone.

Karzai is at least better than the Warlords because he requested the Warlords several times to have a negotiation with Pakistan because Afghanistan and Pakistan both are facing danger from the Taliban and we whatever we do, we have to do it together. The Warlords ignored that matter and instead Karzai had a negotiation with Zardari and also PM of Iran, Ahmedinejad, few months back. Just yesterday there was someone from Pakistani parliament, forgot his name, who said on Afghan News Channel Pakistan and Afghanistan will fight against the Taliban together. That's kind of spirit both countries need right now, this is no time for playing the blame-game because that will only create more hate and bring us nowhere, while the enemies can happily enjoy every moment of it.

 

[Spitfighter]

^^ @ muse,

that depends on what you define as a 'security problem'. From what I've seen on this forum, any Indian involvement in Afghanistan is viewed with deep suspicion. Pakistan would rather Afghanistan have nothing to do with India what so ever.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

- even their Information Operations on radio stations now use Urdu messages.

On that note, I think the Daily Times had an article on how many of the 14 Afghan TV stations now have a bureau in Pehsawar ...

None of the Pakistani stations have a bureau in Afghanistan ...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[muse]

That's a super article and Pakistani media make a huge mistake by not entering that market, especially the cable channels. I note the confidence of the Afghan media and the defensiveness of the Pakistani by not entering that market.

 

[BATMAN]

Afghanistan and Pakistan both are facing danger from the Taliban and we whatever we do, we have to do it together. The Warlords ignored that matter and instead Karzai had a negotiation with Zardari and also PM of Iran, Ahmedinejad, few months back. Just yesterday there was someone from Pakistani parliament, forgot his name, who said on Afghan News Channel Pakistan and Afghanistan will fight against the Taliban together.

My dear friend, there is so much propaganda about Talibans on the media but I don't expect you to get lost in it.
We here in Pakistan believe undisputidly that the Taliban organisation formed in Pakistan in 2006-2007 have no association with Taliban which once ruled Afghanistan and who's leadership is in now in hiding.
It is not possible to acertain that those exploding IEDs in Afghanistan are the reminats of same old Taliban or it is indian gorkhas disguised as Taliban as they are in case of Pakistans.
What we are concerned in Pakistan are TTP which operate indian, US and NATO weapons, which are not Muslims but fighting in the capacity of Islamists, they have no families or birth records in Pakistan.
There had also been lot of propaganda about Mehsud being ally of al-qeeda and now the latest vedio from al-qaeeda clearly tells us that they have nothing in common.
This puts a big question, who is financers of TTP? They need billions to build bunkers and weapons.
They need years to establish their intelligence network.
They need channels to procure more advance equipment than Pakistan army.
They need training facilities as good as a professional army. etc. etc.
Non of above was available to al-qaeeda or Taliban who ruled afghanistan once.
We should not confuse both Taliban and we can only say that we are facing common enemy if same entity is fighting in Afghanistan as is in Pakistan.
As far my observation is that there is no more of old Talibans and new branded Talibans are different having deep connections both in Pakistan and Afghanistan govts.

 

[Watani]

^ Well bro, then we both can agree that Pakistan and Afghanistan both are paying for the price of 9/11, while the plot wasn't done by an Afghan or Pakistani at all. I just get more and more stressed thinking why the guilty one isn't being caught at all? I also refuse to believe Taliban bomb Pashtuns daily in Afghanistan while they are Pashtuns themselves. Pashtuns on both sides are being blamed for everything while Pashtuns on both sides are suffering the most right now. But are you by the way trying to say that India might financially support the Taliban?

By the way, Pakistani serials, songs and singers are being viewed on Afghan channels. Especially Rahim Shah, Nazia Iqbal, Haroon Bacha and Zeek Afridi are very well known amongst Afghans and Rahim Shah visits Kabul regularly for concerts. Encouraging each others artists is one step closer to peace amongst the countries, I believe.

 

[muse]

Batman

TTP and Afghan Talib are ideological kin and their money comes from Saudi Arabia - you canot buy into this right now, I understand -- After a fire fight, when querried, a Aussie commander about the weapomns and Ammo recovered, the Weapon was not old, but were clean, the ammo was not old, the RPG were new, but generally failed to explode because of damage to the tail section when they are taken out of the case and transported on mules.

 

[Watani]

^ Well, he is being appreciated for his music and I think it's best to keep his personally life or his off-stage behaviour out of this. He visits Kabul and also Jalalabad very often and especially in Jalalabad people absolutely love him and they say he is a very humble guy. But I never met him personally so can't say much. I do like it the way he shows his views on Afghan-Pakistan unity.