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Catalonia has 'won right to statehood'

It's not controversial, it is illegal. No discussion, it is an illegal referendum proposed by a corrupt catalan minority. Spain has every right to send their police forces.
Stay strong Spain!
 
Madrid to fight tooth and nail on this referendum which has been ruled unconstitutional by Spanish court. No nation would like to be poor (suddenly) by quarter of its economy:

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Madrid has decided to approach this issue with carrot & stick policy:

Carrot = Financial autonomy.
Stick = To become ruthless and thwart their dreams and crush, quell, quash & squash this nationhood in the making.

Hala Madrid!
 
It's always a dumb move to break up.

Yeah, man was Gandhi a jerk breaking up the greatest Western Empire that lived.

It's not controversial, it is illegal. No discussion, it is an illegal referendum proposed by a corrupt catalan minority. Spain has every right to send their police forces.

Many nations that have strong minorities are bound to feel this way. Turkey's itself has the Kurds who could follow suit like the Iraqi Kurds did.

Even Europe suffers from this, as the reason to why Brussels has been tight lipped about the violence. Had this referendum taken place before Brexit, the responses would have been different. There's alot of instability in the EU, they dont want another crisis that will emboldened the UK.

Carrot = Financial autonomy.
Stick = To become ruthless and thwart their dreams and crush, quell, quash & squash this nationhood in the making.

It's too little too late. Had there not been the police violence of throwing old men, women, and children down stairs.

Catalonia has always pushed for reforms to the autonomy laws they have, but the governments in Madrid turned their backs.

While Catalonians were singing for peace and independence. Nationalists in Madrid were signing the anthem of fascists and giving right hand salutes.
 
While Catalonians were singing for peace and independence. Nationalists in Madrid were signing the anthem of fascists and giving right hand salutes.

What would your US say to Texas if they did the same shik?
Bienvenido = Welcome?
 
Catalonia's living standard and income is higher than rest of the Spain.
Thats the only reason why they want independence,Catalunya is rich with a good economy,it doesnt want to ''pay'' for the rest of Spain anymore.
 
Catalonia and many other minorities in EU should have the right to go independent, Good job.
 
Why are European citizens supportive of this referendum? Do they not understand what implications it has for them? And why are Americans supportive of it? Do you know what we would do if California or any other state made a decision to secede? Sigh ....
 
@vostok 's scenario looks very real to me, since spain would never want catolonia to be part of EU and i think EU has given a similar statement that independent Catalonia wouldnt be part of EU by default. Its a tricky situation for both Spain and Catalonia & end result may encourage or discourage others.

and how real is the possibility of California and texas independence, i read it somewhere but i think US would never let tbis happen and it will remain a wishful thinking, isnt California's reason somewhat similar to Catalonia.
 
@vostok 's scenario looks very real to me, since spain would never want catolonia to be part of EU and i think EU has given a similar statement that independent Catalonia wouldnt be part of EU by default. Its a tricky situation for both Spain and Catalonia & end result may encourage or discourage others.

and how real is the possibility of California and texas independence, i read it somewhere but i think US would never let tbis happen and it will remain a wishful thinking, isnt California's reason somewhat similar to Catalonia.
It is like Pandorra's box - you can open it, but you can not close it.
 
If they want to be independent, then I don't see why the government should be against. Every region/state should have the right to seek independence if the majority of the people are actively seeking for self rule to the point of using violence. Government should give them their referendum to choose their destiny. Using force never solved such demands. So the Spanish government should stop denying Catalans their right to hold a referendum. They should follow our example with the way our government granted Scots referendum for independence.

Cameron was useless but I can respect him for allowing Scots to vote for independence.
 
Sir, I beg to differ based on my little experience and first hand knowledge. Catalonia has great tourism industry. If they become separate, they will still be part of EU and both countries will have friendly relations. Catalonians have no issues with common Spaniards, their only issue is with the central govt that is corrupt and mismanages the budget. Also if you check the history most of the small countries separated from large countries are fairing better than before for example Singapore. Furthermore separations inside EU are not hard separations. Since borders are soft, same currency, similar laws etc.. so
If Catalonia is recognized as an independent state, they will have to apply for membership in the EU, and Spain will have veto power since all members have a vote and one NO, is
enough to block membership.
A vote with 42% turnout is shockingly low.

The referendum is a violation of the Spanish Constitution.
When there was a referendum on approving this constitution, 90%+ of the citizens
in Catalonia approved the constitution.
If they want to become independent, then the legal way is to first change the constitution of Spain.
 
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Within one of these days there will be a declaration of independence by Catalonian authorities, and subsequent chaos to follow thereafter. The interesting thing is that the Brussels (de facto capital of EU) is still tongue-tied.
Brussels did say: "Belgian waffles, anyone?"
 
Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says the Spanish region has won the right to statehood following a contentious referendum that was marred by violence.

He said the door had been opened to a unilateral declaration of independence.

Catalan officials later said 90% of those who voted backed independence in Sunday's vote. The turnout was 42.3%.

Spain's constitutional court had declared the poll illegal and hundreds of people were injured as police used force to try to block voting.

Officers seized ballot papers and boxes at polling stations.

"With this day of hope and suffering, the citizens of Catalonia have won the right to an independent state in the form a republic," Mr Puigdemont said in a televised address flanked by other senior Catalan leaders.

"My government, in the next few days will send the results of today's vote to the Catalan parliament, where the sovereignty of our people lies, so that it can act in accordance with the law of the referendum."

He said the European Union could no longer "continue to look the other way".

In another development, more than 40 trade unions and Catalan associations called a region-wide strike on Tuesday due to "the grave violation of rights and freedoms".

Earlier, as voting ended, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said Catalans had been fooled into taking part in an illegal vote. He called it a "mockery" of democracy.

"At this hour I can tell you in the strongest terms what you already know and what we have seen throughout this day. There has not been a referendum on self-determination in Catalonia," he said.

Large crowds of independence supporters gathered in the centre of the regional capital Barcelona on Sunday evening, waving flags and singing the Catalan anthem. Anti-independence protesters have also held rallies in Barcelona and other Spanish cities.

How bad was the violence?
The Catalan government said more than 800 people had been injured in clashes across the region. Those figures included people who had suffered relatively minor complaints such as anxiety attacks.

The Spanish interior ministry said 12 police officers had been hurt and three people arrested. It added that 92 polling stations had been closed.

In Girona, riot police smashed their way into a polling station where Mr Puigdemont was due to vote, and forcibly removed those inside. Mr Puigdemont voted at another station.

The BBC's Tom Burridge in Barcelona witnessed police being chased away from one polling booth after they had raided it.

TV footage showed riot police using batons to beat a group of firefighters who were protecting crowds in Girona.

The national police and Guardia Civil - a military force charged with police duties - were sent into Catalonia in large numbers to prevent the vote.

The Catalan police - the Mossos d'Esquadra - have been placed under Madrid's control, however witnesses said they showed little inclination to use force on protesters.

Barcelona Mayor Ada Colau condemned police actions against the region's "defenceless" population, but Spain's Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz de Santamaria said police had "acted with professionalism and in a proportionate way".

How much voting took place?
Catalan authorities said 319 of about 2,300 polling stations across the region had been closed by police while the Spanish government said 92 stations had been closed.

Announcing the results, the Catalan government said about 2.26 million of Catalonia's 5.34 million voters had been able to cast their ballot.

Since Friday, thousands of people have occupied schools and other buildings designated as polling stations in order to keep them open.

Many of those inside were parents and their children, who remained in the buildings after the end of lessons on Friday and bedded down in sleeping bags on gym mats.

Catalonia, a wealthy region of 7.5 million people in north-eastern Spain, has its own language and culture.

It also has a high degree of autonomy, but is not recognised as a separate nation under the Spanish constitution.

@Nilgiri @Vergennes @Desert Fox

It has been going on in various ways since Ferdinand and Isabella married (for political union purposes) and Spain pushed Castille identity (starting with which formal register is Spanish etc) 1st and foremost.

Ham fisted response of Castille this time is not different either. They must become more flexible to more autonomy (and put some quantifiable fiscal independence on the table which is what many influential catalonians want in tandem with federalised system)...about 60%+ on average of Catalonians do not want full independence (esp given EU will not admit them and it will be like brexit)...but instead Castille is going for this level of repression making everything brittle and polarised. This is going to hurt them badly....people are just going to be reactionary now against MAD-rid....I will not be surprised if now the polling of catalonians tips past the 50% mark for full independence the way spanish central govt handled this.
 

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