Catalonia declares independence from Spain

[Cyberian]

As much as I have sympathy and respect for Catalonia,it is against Spain's constitution - Spain is never going to allow this - No country,especially European is going to recognize Catalonia's independence - Everybody recognizes the right for Spain to maintain its territorial integrity.

Catalonia also delcared independence in 1934. It lasted ten hours.

Spain's senate has just given Madrid powers to impose direct rule on Catalonia.

Serbia didn't allow Kosovo independence either and this is not 1934.

 

[Vergennes]

Spain's PM,Rajoy announced ;

-The dismissal the president of Catalonia,Carles Puigdemont, his government and the regional police chief.
-The dissolution of the parliament of Catalonia and new elections on December 21.
-The central government ministries will assume the powers of the Catalan administration
-Rajoy intends to appeal to the constitutional court to nullify the measures adopted friday afternoon by the Catalan Parliament.

Prosecutors said rebellion charge will be filed against Carles Puigdemont. If charged,he risks up to 30 years in prison.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Europe sacrificed the most for Israel. They will continue to do that. Two great wars, and then Germany, the last country standing, kneel down to support Israel. Now again, for an excuse for Kurdistan, Spain must be sacrificed. All just to make Israel more safe and for her expansion in future. Next comes, may be, Bavaria.

BTW, I dont support Spains disintegration at all, rather I see it as a very much negative development.

 

[MultaniGuy]

The Kashmiris are watching this too. Maybe Jammu and Kashmir under Indian occupation may gets its independence from India afterall.

 

[livingdead]

I just pointed out that Spain's constitution clearly states that secession is illegal. Catalonia in the vast majority adopted the constitution. (The Yes vote was among the highest of any Spanish regions)

Catalonia is also among the regions enjoying the most autonomy,on vital matters such as education,health,security,culture etc.

I am not talking about you.. am talking about people who use it as an argument against independence... i mean this is clutching straws.. am sure there are better arguments than this.. for example the referendum did not see enough turnout...
its like arguing about gun ownership with some dumb american..
me: I think you guys need to look into gun owership and see if the rights can be curtailed, too many massacres, dont you think
american: No.. its in the constitution
me: ya I know but is it not time to revisit it, may be?
american: NOO, its in the fcuking constitution..
me: ya I know, it gives you right to bear arms now, but should not there be debate about whether the right makes sense...
american: For the final time, its in the fcuking constitution, which part of constitution dont you understand..
me: slowly back off...

 

[Beast]

China can't even spell democracy, let alone point out its flaws. Let the West have their democracy and let Chinese have whatever China's has and leave it at that.



Only you can manage to include India in this thread. Obviously, someone's obsessed here. If so interested in Catalans seeking their independence, would you object to Balochistan seeking theirs?



So it's Catalans acting up again. No doubt things will get hot and then cool. They will return to the fold. Catalans were also the prime movers behind the Republic government in the 1930s and look what happened to them. It's just not going to happen.

When did the western ever learn how to spell democracy? Didn't this thread exactly prove be my point? You mean people who are selective in exercise their stance has the moral and judgement to judge others?

Precisely the Chinese has the every right to expose these hypocrites who are selective in their stance on international scene. Chinese policy is always consistent and never flip flop. I dare to say China is the most righteous nation. Will you work with a person who flip flop his policy? Or a person who is clear with his point and policy?

Nobody will take a countries policy seriously if they are selective in their judgements.

 

[Clutch]

Will the USA invade Spain to give democracy and freedom to Catalonia?

Don't hold your breath.

Good point.


We could be witnessing the start of the Spanish civil war 2.0.

 

[vostok]

Waiting for Val d'Aran declares independence from Catalonia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_d'Aran

 

[SherDil]

Image copyrightEPA
Image captionSpain's Deputy PM Soraya Saenz de Santamaria is now officially in charge of Catalonia

The Spanish government has stripped Catalonia of its autonomy and taken charge of its government.

The measures early on Saturday came after the Catalan parliament voted to declare independence on Friday.

An official state bulletin dismissed Catalan leaders and handed control of Catalonia to Spain's Deputy Prime Minister, Soraya Saenz de Santamaria.

Earlier, Spain's interior ministry took charge of Catalonia's police after firing senior Catalan police officials.

On Friday, PM Mariano Rajoy announced the dissolution of the regional parliament and the removal of the Catalan leader, and called snap local elections.

Demonstrations for and against independence went on into the night. A large rally "for the unity of Spain and the constitution" is being held in Madrid.

• Barca coach ducks Catalan questions
• Catalonia crisis: What next for Spain?
• EU risks "more cracks" appearing

The crisis began when Catalan leaders held an independence referendum, defying a ruling by the Constitutional Court which had declared it illegal.

The Catalan government said that of the 43% of potential voters who took part, 90% were in favour of independence. Others boycotted the vote after the court ruling.

What are the latest developments?

Media captionAt times there were tensions between the two sides
On Friday afternoon, the Catalan regional parliament voted to declare independence from Spain.

Soon after, the Spanish Senate granted Mr Rajoy's government the power to impose direct rule on Catalonia.

It did so early on Saturday by publishing an official bulletin (in Spanish) that dismissed Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont and all government members.

The announcement came hours after the Madrid government removed Josep Lluís Trapero Álvarez as chief of Catalonia's autonomous Mossos police force.

Mr Trapero was already under investigation for sedition, accused of failing to help Spain's Guardia Civil police tackle thousands of pro-independence protesters in Barcelona during the run-up to the referendum.

Pere Soler i Campins, the Mossos director general, has also been dismissed.

Image copyrightAFP/GETTY IMAGES
Image captionLarge crowds turned out in Madrid on Saturday to support Spanish unity
The BBC's Sarah Rainsford, in Madrid, said that implementing the changes is likely to be a complex process for Spanish authorities - and one bound to be met with stiff resistance from those who just voted for independence.

Regional elections are scheduled for 21 December.

Mr Puigdemont has urged supporters to "maintain the momentum" in a peaceful manner, but Spanish prosecutors say they will file charges of "rebellion" against him next week.

Media captionThe moment Catalan parliament declared independence
Separatists say the independence move means they no longer fall under Spanish jurisdiction.

But the Spanish Constitutional Court is likely to declare it illegal, while the EU, the US, the UK, Germany and France all expressed support for Spanish unity.

What powers did Catalonia have?
Before Madrid took over the Catalan government, the region had one of the greatest levels of self-government in Spain.

It has its own parliament, police force and public broadcaster, as well as a government and president, though those have now been dismissed.

Catalans had a range of powers in many policy areas from culture and environment to communications, transportation, commerce and public safety.

Foreign affairs, the armed forces and fiscal policy were always the sole responsibility of the Spanish government.

• What powers has Catalonia now lost?
• The case for and against independence

What's the reaction been?
Thousands celebrated the declaration of independence on the streets of Barcelona, Catalonia's regional capital.

The same crowds that cheered each Yes vote from Catalan MPs reportedly booed Mr Rajoy as he made his announcement.

There were pro-unity demonstrations too, with protesters in Barcelona waving Spanish flags and denouncing Catalan independence. A large pro-unity rally is expected in Madrid on Saturday.

In other reaction:

• Barcelona's mayor Ada Colau condemned the move by Madrid, but also criticised Catalan pro-independence parties for "advancing at a kamikaze pace...after their mistaken reading of the results of the Catalan elections"
• EU President Donald Tusk said Madrid's government "remains our only interlocutor" in Spain, but called for restraint
• The UK government said it did not recognise the declaration of independence by Catalonia.

How did we get here?
After the 1 October referendum, Mr Puigdemont signed a declaration of independence but delayed implementation to allow talks with the Spanish government.

He ignored warnings by the Madrid government to cancel the move, prompting Mr Rajoy to first announce his plans to remove Catalan leaders and impose direct rule.

• Does Catalonia want to leave Spain?
• Reality Check: Police violence in Catalonia

Catalonia is one of Spain's richest, most distinctive regions, with a high degree of autonomy.

Many Catalans feel they pay more to Madrid than they get back, and there are historical grievances, too, in particular Catalonia's treatment under the dictatorship of General Franco. But Catalans have been divided on the question of independence.


Catalonia in numbers

• 16% of Spain's population live in Catalonia, and it produces:
  
  
• 25.6% of Spain's exports
  
  
• 19% of Spain's GDP
  
  
• 20.7% of foreign investment
  

Ministry of Economy, Industry and Competitiveness, Eurostat, Bank of Spain
Getty
Are you in Catalonia? What is your reaction to the latest developments? You can share your views and experience by emailing haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk.

 

[UKBengali]

Catalonia is rich. No wonder Spain does not want it to secede.

 

[cerberus]

Catalonia is rich. No wonder Spain does not want it to secede.

There No way Catalonia Secede as per Spain constitution

 

[PakSword]

Spain should start using pallet guns...

 

[UKBengali]

There No way Catalonia Secede as per Spain constitution

EU is no banana republic like India that can hold onto nations against their will.
Catalonia will secede, only question is when.

 

[PakSword]

EU is no banana republic like India that can hold into nations against their will.
Catalonia will secede, only question is when.

Yes..

 

[cerberus]

EU is no banana republic like India that can hold into nations against their will.
Catalonia will secede, only question is when.

India is constitutional republic.democratic countries run by constitution
There is no precedent in Indian And US constitutions To secede there territory base on referendums

EU is against It.Spain Will now directly Rule it as Union territory And all Voices Will be curbed in coming years