Captured bomber and Swat GOC link India to terrorism in Pak

[Xeric]

Both India and Pakistan use Vickers guns. It is common through the commonwealth. I would not be surprised if the gunsmiths along the border can make a good copy of it - considering that this weapon is from world war I era and that it was used as early as in the third Afghan war.

Why claim that was made in India ?

Pakistan uses Vickers!! Hmm....that is a news.
So when are you sending in the first shipment?

 

[wtf]

Pakistan uses Vickers!! Hmm....that is a news.
So when are you sending in the first shipment?

The Vickers Machine Gun: Around the world

"Aside from these commercial guns sent directly from Vickers Ltd., both India and Pakistan were British colonies until their independance in 1949. They were therefore supplied with British Service guns before that time - and used them for long after"

 

[Xeric]

The Vickers Machine Gun: Around the world

"Aside from these commercial guns sent directly from Vickers Ltd., both India and Pakistan were British colonies until their independance in 1949. They were therefore supplied with British Service guns before that time - and used them for long after"

i knew this was coming as you already have given a reference to the Brits!

Dude i have a piece or two of Vickers rusting in one of my Messes!!

If i were the terrorist i am not taking that even free of cost!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The link says video not found ?

Its working - but you have to refresh the page once you click on the link.

May have to try a couple of times to play the video. Just checked it.

 

[wtf]

i knew this was coming as you already have given a reference to the Brits!

Dude i have a piece or two of Vickers rusting in one of my Messes!!

If i were the terrorist i am not taking that even free of cost!!

I probably should have used the word "used Vickers" instead of "use Vickers".

 

[Xeric]

I probably should have used the word "used Vickers" instead of "use Vickers".

Does that matter?

i have never seen a Vickers firing from this side of the border since the day i have joined the military. Yes, i have experienced it first hand from your side though!

 

[wtf]

Does that matter?

i have never seen a Vickers firing from this side of the border since the day i have joined the military. Yes, i have experienced it first hand from your side though!

Sorry about you being shot at.

That said, all I am saying is that Vickers has been around the region for a while and would be an obvious one to be copied and used. India should not need to ship the gun from India.

I am just asking whether the accusation was that India gave those guns because India was the last army to use it or was it that these guns had some obvious "Made in India" characteristics ?

Anyway, I was hunting for a picture of the Ishapore made Vickers berthier (not the original Vickers, which has been discontinued from the 60s) . But seems like this one is actually a Russian PKM T-80 and not a Vickers or Vickers-Berthier either. If you know any identifying charecteristics of the Indian gun, let me know. Apparently even Vickers-Berthier is no longer under production and is only for reserve use in India.

 

[wtf]

Its working - but you have to refresh the page once you click on the link.

May have to try a couple of times to play the video. Just checked it.

Thanks. I watched the entire video. If the original comments were true, I'd have believed that India is actually involved in the Baluchistan mess. But from what the video shows, it is not much of an evidence.

He first says he saw Karzai. That would have been a full blown war announcement considering Karzai is a head of state and he should not ever be directly involved in suicide bombings. Then later on the guy says that he never met Karzai but heard stories that he is involved.

The same way the guy first says "Indian man said they'll offer ration to everyone living in Brahmadaghs house" and "handed over a big suitcase of cash" then later on he says that he is not sure of this but his Balochi friend said that India is involved.

Anyway, this is bad news for India if Balochi people believe that India is helping them and India actually is not. If India is indeed helping suicide bombers, I'd say that India should not involve itself in terrorist activities.

 

[Xeric]

Sorry about you being shot at.

Please offer condolence to the men on your side.

That said, all I am saying is that Vickers has been around the region for a while and would be an obvious one to be copied and used. India should not need to ship the gun from India.

I am just asking whether the accusation was that India gave those guns because India was the last army to use it or was it that these guns had some obvious "Made in India" characteristics ?

Anyway, I was hunting for a picture of the Ishapore made Vickers berthier (not the original Vickers, which has been discontinued from the 60s) . But seems like this one is actually a Russian PKM T-80 and not a Vickers or Vickers-Berthier either. If you know any identifying charecteristics of the Indian gun, let me know. Apparently even Vickers-Berthier is no longer under production and is only for reserve use in India.

We all know that Vickers is low in performance if not even equal then the Pakistani MG1 A3, i wonder why would they 'specially' copy Vickers instead of the MG? Such a love for the indian weaponry!

They a Darra make 1000s of weapons. You name it and it is there. i have been providing them pics of all sort of guns so that they can replicate them and then i can keep them framed in my room (because you cant use them-not that they dont fire but you may find one blowing your hand after the fourth or fifth bullet).

Let's stop beating about the bush and blame Daraites for 'copying' the great (or may be not) Vickers. Just beacuse we had used Vickers in 1949 doesnt mean that we are still making them at Darra, or may yes if they are then it is just for the sokeen mizaaj collectors who show off more than they want to use it!!

 

[Kasrkin]

Array that gun in the picture is not a Vicker. It is the PK, a general purpose machine gun, the first one in fact to go into Soviet service. It can be found in all former Warsaw countries. You would be hard pressed to come across one insurgent force in the world that doesn't have it. Behind the PK is an RPG 7 variant, Chinese made. Both very deadly weapons, but unfortunately not easily traceable back to India. Hey I’m all up for looking for proof of Indian involvement in FATA/Swat too, but this isn’t it.

 

[bandit]

Again - what is important is whether Gen. Ghani made those comments, not that Qureishi reproduced them.

Plus the testimony of the captured suicide bomber...

If general Ghani's statement or the testimony of the bomber carried any weight Pakistan would be parading them in front of the whole world. These 'proofs' are just for public consumption, they do not carry any weight and even your own government knows it would be made a laughing stock of if it went to any international fora with these sort of proofs.

These articles just serve to take your attention away from the real issues...the ones that are really there, and the article does lose its credibility if it comes from a suspicious source....just look at the header he quotes a Khalistani guy right at the top...you can easily expect what comes next.

 

[harun786]

Array that gun in the picture is not a Vicker. It is the PK, a general purpose machine gun, the first one in fact to go into Soviet service. It can be found in all former Warsaw countries. You would be hard pressed to come across one insurgent force in the world that doesn't have it. Behind the PK is an RPG 7 variant, Chinese made. Both very deadly weapons, but unfortunately not easily traceable back to India. Hey I’m all up for looking for proof of Indian involvement in FATA/Swat, but this isn’t it.

Hi K,

I have been looking for Indian involvement in Pak from last 2 days but unfortunately have not found anything.

This has lead me to think hard and i have reached to 2 suggestions
1) Indians are too good to cover up their act which i doubt . OR
2) There are elements in our country or outside our country who wants us not to have a good relationship with our Neighbours.

We really need to find some solid proof before we want the world to belive us.

We need to work our way out of this mess. It may be Indians Americans Soviets or any other country who may be creating this issues for us, but our focus should be to clean it up as soon as possible so we can go ahead on the road to SUCCESS.

H

 

[wtf]

If general Ghani's statement or the testimony of the bomber carried any weight Pakistan would be parading them in front of the whole world. These 'proofs' are just for public consumption, they do not carry any weight and even your own government knows it would be made a laughing stock of if it went to any international fora with these sort of proofs.

These articles just serve to take your attention away from the real issues...the ones that are really there, and the article does lose its credibility if it comes from a suspicious source....just look at the header he quotes a Khalistani guy right at the top...you can easily expect what comes next.

Assuming that the guy is telling the truth, it is a real issue for India. Apparently the Balochi people believe that India is helping them. It would be really bad for India if India is really not helping them, but some people believe they have international support.

 

[bandit]

Assuming that the guy is telling the truth, it is a real issue for India. Apparently the Balochi people believe that India is helping them. It would be really bad for India if India is really not helping them, but some people believe they have international support.

Well cosidering the guy is even telling the truth, let balochs believe what they want to, its their land their fight, we really dont need to be concerned about that, in fact if they manage to gain independence they'll be thankful to us.
As for the pakistanis, they are already convinced we are in it, so it doesnt matter much as long as they dont have credible proofs.

 

[Kasrkin]

Hi K,

I have been looking for Indian involvement in Pak from last 2 days but unfortunately have not found anything.

This has lead me to think hard and i have reached to 2 suggestions
1) Indians are too good to cover up their act which i doubt

Why not mate? We went to ridiculous lengths to hide our finger prints on the weapons we gave to the Mujahideen. I doubt we’ll find these terrorists running around with Indian Vickers. If you read my earlier post, you’ll see they are many other, more effective and safe, ways an intelligence agency can fuel an insurgency.