Captain’s negligence caused Air Blue crash: report

[Jango]

Hi,

An interesting bit of news has been taken out---the first day news after the accident had stated that the pilot was a very religious man and was fasting against the flight rules---.

His attitude in the cockpit now showed of classic cranky behaviour while fasting----

A captain fasting while on duty and flying???

Really inept attitude by everyone involved, the pilot, the CAA, the Airblue organization.

 

[Donatello]

You will never find out if it was actually the Aircraft at fault or the Pilot. So in such cases it is always better to put blame on the pilot and be done with 'investigation'. As the pilot is dead, so would be all the theories of crash, once the blame is pinned on him. If you say aircraft was at fault, maintenance issue etc Airblue/CAA would be spending so much more money to investigate, but hey no body wants to spend more money!

On 17th October 2001, a PIA Airbus A300 had an accident at Dubai airport. The Captain of the plane was my uncle, a very dear one. The approach was normal and no signs of any emergency. So none was declared. However, the moment plane touched the runway and the entire weight of the aircraft was transferred from the wings to the landing gear, the right main landing gear collapsed, causing the plane to veer off the runway, skid and rest in the rough area. The right engine and wing sustained massive damage, but thatnks to the quick wit reaction of the Pilots, the plane came to rest safely and all passengers escaped unhurt.

CAA/PIA blamed the error on the Captain/Co-Pilot whereas the Dubai Aviation blamed the faulty landing gear. Bad maintenance, led to the collapse of the landing gear, what was pilot supposed to do, at that speed?

They threatened him with sanctions and what not. Thankfully he fought the case in court, and was later the first pilot to fly the B777-200LR out of the Boeing factory for PIA, and has now logged more than 7000 Hours on them.

There are many cases in the west or the east, where planes were lost with all those on board, and its simply just easy to blame pilot for it....than to go back and revamp your maintenance records.

A typical case of the AA 191 flight.....and yea that happened in the so called USA. What shame. What a sad loss of lives.

Or the March 1, 2004 incident with PIA Airbus A300. Take off is aborted as tyres from the main landing burst, the fragments get sucked into both the engines, causing total loss. Passengers remained safe, but Aircraft was total loss and withdrawn from use.
Cause:- Cheap/unreliable tyres. Saving few 1000s of Dollars led to wrecking of a 100million dollar plane.

Humans, after all, are not the best rational decision makers.

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

An interesting bit of news has been taken out---the first day news after the accident had stated that the pilot was a very religious man and was fasting against the flight rules---.

His attitude in the cockpit now showed of classic cranky behaviour while fasting----

Yes indeed. May be he went straight to heaven for placing religion above duty, or may he has to answer for all those he killed? I do not know.

 

[MastanKhan]

So what are u trying to implicate here ?

Hi,

I guess you got the answer in the next two posts----.

Penumbra,

In this case, they have the black box with flight recordings----the details mentioned about the treatment are a classical example of of older 'religious self-righteous bully'---here we have a senior officer yelling and de-meaning a junior oficer---a totally different scenario in relation to your uncle's---.

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

I guess you got the answer in the next two posts----.

Penumbra,

In this case, they have the black box with flight recordings----the details mentioned about the treatment are a classical example of of older 'religious self-righteous bully'---here we have a senior officer yelling and de-meaning a junior oficer---a totally different scenario in relation to your uncle's---.

Yes indeed. However, Airbus A319/320/321 series are fly by wire planes, and i find it very hard to believe that a plane that easy to fly can crash around such an easy airport. But perhaps, everything was fine, less the pilot.

 

[Pakistanisage]

What you can expect from a 65 years old man,
the more you grow older after 50,it becomes difficult to concentrate.The Air blue had hired such a man who could'nt get job anywhere else, to save money.

As is always the case, there were many reasons for this Aircrash and except for the inclement weather they all pertain to pilot error. I remember when this crash took place, I studied the known facts and knew instinctively it was pilot error. The Captain was a retired 65 year old pilot who was quite religious. The Crash took place on 28th day of Ramadan, so not only the Captain was fasting but more than likely spent the 27th night praying and had very little sleep. This explains his confusion and lack of situational awareness.

He should have reported sick and because of inclement weather the flight should have been cancelled. Islamabad Airport has ILS approach for runway 30 only. On the fateful day active runway in use was Runway 12 and this required the crew to approach runway 30 using ILS and once runway in sight circle to land on runway 12, while not leaving 5 Nautical miles circle around the airport and not losing visual contact with the runway. Margalla hills where the aircraft crashed is close to 10 NM from the airport. The Captain strayed too far from the airport and the traffic control waited a bit too long before they called the Captain about the deviation from published procedures. By then it was too late and as Captain tried at the last minute to turn he lost altitude and crashed in the Margalla hills.

Airblues management should be questioned for hiring a retired PIA Captain. Airblue also should be questioned if they pressurized Captains to fly in inclement weather, against their better judgement.

 

[Jango]

Yes indeed. However, Airbus A319/320/321 series are fly by wire planes, and i find it very hard to believe that a plane that easy to fly can crash around such an easy airport. But perhaps, everything was fine, less the pilot.

You cannot really blame the plane in a CFIT on approach, and bad weather, coupled with a grunty captain, makes things bad.

---------- Post added at 12:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------

As is always the case, there were many reasons for this Aircrash and except for the inclement weather they all pertain to pilot error. I remember when this crash took place, I studied the known facts and knew instinctively it was pilot error. The Captain was a retired 65 year old pilot who was quite religious. The Crash took place on 28th day of Ramadan, so not only the Captain was fasting but more than likely spent the 27th night praying and had very little sleep. This explains his confusion and lack of situational awareness.

He should have reported sick and because of inclement weather the flight should have been cancelled. Islamabad Airport has ILS approach for runway 30 only. On the fateful day active runway in use was Runway 12 and this required the crew to approach runway 30 using ILS and once runway in sight circle to land on runway 12, while not leaving 5 Nautical miles circle around the airport. Margalla hills where the aircraft crashed is close to 10 NM from the airport. The Captain strayed too far from the airport and the traffic control waited a bit too long before they called the Captain about the deviation from published procedures. By then it was too late and as Captain tried at the last minute to turn he lost altitude and crashed in the Margalla hills.

Airblues management should be questioned for hiring a retired PIA Captain. Airblue also should be questioned if they pressurized Captains to fly in inclement weather, against their better judgement.

ILS is only on one runway? Strange, will check on it.

It is just like the case of hiring a retired Army subedar for private security companies. This culture needs to change.

 

[Jango]

Has anybody seen the report?

A complete farce.

It also clearly mentions through the Data voice recorder, that the captain used harsh words on his FO, and it undermined his confidence, and he then did not talk up to his captain.

A grunty pilot losing the lives of his pax. Really sad.

The thorough report of just 38 pages, has the first 26 pages explaining what systems are in an aircraft!!!

 

[zkashan]

Has anybody seen the report?

A complete farce.

It also clearly mentions through the Data voice recorder, that the captain used harsh words on his FO, and it undermined his confidence, and he then did not talk up to his captain.

A grunty pilot losing the lives of his pax. Really sad.

The thorough report of just 38 pages, has the first 26 pages explaining what systems are in an aircraft!!!

The report does not seem to be available for download anywhere. Maybe someone who has direct access to courts and media might.

 

[Chogy]

BTW, which A/C did you fly Chogy in commercial aviation?

I have crewed on MD-80, MD-11, B-727, 737, 757, 767, and 777.

While pilot mistakes can end in disaster, there are usually other factors that go into it. Bad WX, some minor maintenance glitch, high terrain, etc. Everything lines up in a bad way, and you get an accident.

But an airplane simply fatally falling apart or breaking - it can happen, but its very rare now. There is so much redundancy built in. For example, IIRC, the B-777 has no less than 14 generators, any one of which can power the fly by wire controls. Even smaller jets have huge redundancy, like 3 separate hydraulic systems.

Some jets have a thing called a RAT, a Ram Air Turbine - it's like a child's pinwheel toy. Drop it into the airstream, and it provides both electricity and hydraulic power. Engineers have really put a lot of thought into these things.

 

[Safriz]

PESHAWAR:

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) admitted on Thursday for the first time that the pilot and the air traffic control staff were responsible for the 2010 Air Blue crash.

In the re-investigation report of the crash submitted to the Peshawar High Court (PHC), CAA maintained that responsibility for the incident also lay with the air traffic control staff for failing to guide the aircraft out of the crisis. It revealed that the air traffic controller guiding Airblue flight ED202 was inexperienced and as such was unable to discharge his duty.

“Weather forecasts (at the time of the flight) indicated rain, poor visibility and low clouds around the airport. The information regarding the prevalent weather and the type of approach on arrival was in the knowledge of aircrew,” the report submitted before the court reads. It adds that the flight captain violated the prescribed flight discipline for the weather conditions and placed the aircraft in an unsafe situation.

“The air traffic services (both the radar and the control tower), which could have helped the flight out of this situation, also failed to avert a ‘controlled flight into terrain’ (CFIT) due to lack of knowledge and training, and ambiguous procedures in the sort of scenario the aircraft was flying in during the last phase of the flight,” the report further notes.

CAA legal counsel Obaidur Rehman Abbasi, meanwhile, told the bench they will present their recommendations on safety measures at the next hearing, after which the hearing was adjourned.

The summary of the re-investigation report was submitted in response to PHC’s directives issued on February 19. In the previous hearing, the CAA had produced the transcript of the Cockpit Voice Recorder recovered from the crash site. The bench subsequently asked Safety Investigation Board president Air Commodore Muhammad Abdul Basit to summarise the transcript in simple terms due to technical jargon.

Airblue flight ED202, bound for Islamabad, crashed into the Margalla Hills on July 28, 2010, killing all passengers and flight crew on-board.

On November 9, 2012, investigation experts of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) completed their reinvestigation into the Airblue crash and concluded, among other things, that aviation body’s initial investigation report into the incident lacked vital information. The information missing from CAA’s report, according to ICAO experts, included the details on the weather conditions during the flight and the maintenance of navigational aids. The ICAO report also noted that while communication between the flight and the air traffic controllers was mentioned, no section in the final report was dedicated to it.

The foreign experts also maintained that the draft of the first report had more details, but claimed they were omitted after it was reviewed by the CAA director general in March, 2011. They, as such, expressed concern over the possibility of a conflict of interest.

Published in The Express Tribune, March 29th, 2013.

Airblue crash re-investigation: ATC staff failed to navigate plane to safety, reveals CAA report – The Express Tribune

 

[Jango]

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) admitted on Thursday for the first time that the pilot and the air traffic control staff were responsible for the 2010 Air Blue crash.
...

I know I am a mod and all that....but.....

The amount of nonsense in that report is appalling. Just to save some face, PALPA and other such organizations get in the controllers into this situation as PAF is the easiest target.

It's all on record that the pilot tried to be an arrogant smarty (no offence) and repeatedly disobeyed commands by the ATC, FO and cockpit instruments. He still kept on doing the visual circle approach in adverse weather and went too far away from the path he should have been following. The ATC told him about it, he reaffirmed that he had the airport in visual and kept on going. What more could the ATC do? It was a very cheap remark in the report that 'military controllers lack the capability to control civilian aircraft'. They have been doing at for decades at three airports with no problems until these two (both weather related and pilot error).

I sure would like to know what lack of training and knowledge was there on part of the controllers?

 

[Argus Panoptes]

PESHAWAR:

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) admitted on Thursday for the first time that the pilot and the air traffic control staff were responsible for the 2010 Air Blue crash.

In the re-investigation report of the crash submitted to the Peshawar High Court (PHC), CAA maintained that responsibility for the incident also lay with the air traffic control staff for failing to guide the aircraft out of the crisis. It revealed that the air traffic controller guiding Airblue flight ED202 was inexperienced and as such was unable to discharge his duty.
................

The worrisome part is that the similar ATC staff are guiding similar pilots even today. It is only a matter of time before another accident happens unless the system is improved. After all, that is one of the goals of any accident investigation: to prevent or reduce the chances of similar future mishaps. What have we learned from this crash that will help future passengers?

 

[Jango]

What have we learned from this crash that will help future passengers?

In simple and short words, absolutely nothing.

Aircrash reports in Pakistan are poorly made, short and in most cases a blame game...to save face of some people or give someone a clean chit.

Even if there are some recommendations given, who is there to ensure that they are implemented?

 

[BATMAN]

CAA legal counsel Obaidur Rehman Abbasi, meanwhile, told the bench they will present their recommendations on safety measures at the next hearing, after which the hearing was adjourned.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...ed-air-blue-crash-report-2.html#ixzz2OwTjwil1

This man shall be lynched by every God fearing person!
Surely, another relative of Zardari.. trying to save his family members in CAA.

Who in this world can believe, that it was a chance that Pakistani planes started to fail and its pilots suddenly became fake.. the moment Zardari took control.
erieyey were attacked in Ramadan, this plane was downed in Ramadan, it is symbolic to kill and hit Islamic interest in the month of Ramadan. History is full of it .. Afghan invasion is full of it.