Capitalism is in decline

[SAMEET]

Most immigrants wont admit it but they don't necessarily care about the host country. Thats the reality so I can understand where the right wing guys are coming from. People have to put them selves in the shoes of white Christian Europeans for a few seconds to understand this.

Luckily for us europe will eventually have an extremely large muslim population.

this we called religious infiltration they will surely not like it !

 

[Desert Fox]

I recommend that the young kids study I.T, computer science, or in university because eventually everything will be connected and the only jobs left will be maintaining robots and computers both of which involve alot of i.t knowledge.
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Just so everyone knows Hitler is a murderer.

I'm no I.T. expert, but here is my take on this with this scenario: a mass production facility with rows upon rows of robots sharing a similar software programming to manufacture products will instantly malfunction or halt production due to a simple software hack or computer virus attack, thus harming the business and costing it millions. Robots are more prone to malfunctions, and it would still be more economical to employ humans.

BTW, one must be able to differentiate between Hitler's economic system and his own personal ambitions.

Most immigrants wont admit it but they don't necessarily care about the host country. Thats the reality so I can understand where the right wing guys are coming from. People have to put them selves in the shoes of white Christian Europeans for a few seconds to understand this.

Luckily for us europe will eventually have an extremely large muslim population.

Exactly. Europe's situation with its immigrants i similar to Turkey's situation with its kurdish minority, Pakistan with its Afghan refugees, and india with its illegal bangali population. No one likes people who leech off the system and don't contribute back.

BTW, Europe being taken over by Muslims from the third world will only turn the continent into another Middle East with acid attacks on girls, beheadings, suicide bombings, assassinations, and sectarian conflicts very common place.

We can already see that: Woolwich attack: terrorist proclaimed 'an eye for an eye' after attack - Telegraph

 

[MarkusS]

Yes, i hear that the E.U. has a very good healthcare system and overall social welfare system. But the main issue i also hear is that its being leached on by millions of third world immigrants with whom the native Europeans who make up the majority of their nations working class do not feel any affinity towards (thus the rise of Nationalist Parties within every E.U. country).

Most of these immigrants pouring into E.U. countries (due to the leftist gov.t's liberal immigrant policies) don't want to integrate into their host countries and thus cannot work or get a proper job. So what good is the system if the growing portion of the population it is serving is not willing to contribute back??

this is not true. Its mostly right wing propaganda against poor refugees and i dont accept such bullshit claims. Immigrants make up a small part of our nations and i dont buy into the Lega Nord propaganda.

 

[Hakan]

Turks in Germany - from employee to employer | Germany | DW.DE | 31.10.2011

 

[Koovie]

You are contradicting yourself here by implying that Hitler didn't do any good but then proving that he lifted millions out of poverty, which is a very good thing.



False. Germany was the least prepared for war economy wise. That is why German Arms productions did not increase a significant amount until 1944, which was very late in the war.

German armored fighting vehicle production during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Military production during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Compared to other industrialized Nations with similar or more capabilities and yet who still remained in the depression, Germany was prospering immensely with no unemployment.

.

1.) Thats not a contradiction, I specifically said that EVERYTHING was meant to prepare for the war! And that EVERYTHING was achieved by taking MASSIVE DEBTS and taking private property into state possession. And all this was planned to be solved by plundering other countries and enlarging German territory.

2.) True, Germany did not reach its full potential when the war started, but that was the Germans actually wanted to begin the war later with more economic capabilities.

Capitalism puts money over National interests. Today the very major corporations and companies that employed millions of Americans are now abandoning America for cheaper manufacturing bases where a greater profit can be generated through cheap labor. Yes, im afraid Capitalism is destroying the West.

Thats how the free market works, this competition is the reason for the technological advancements, the innovations etc etc etc.
It forces a country to constantly rethink its economic capabilities and to never rest, it gave us Asian economies a chance to rise etc etc

Without this pressure, we would never be where we are today. Its not destroying the west, thats BS. It hit them quite hard eventually, but they learned how to grow on other means.

 

[HariPrasad]

Good what is replacing the capitalism?

 

[MarkusS]

Turks in Germany - from employee to employer | Germany | DW.DE | 31.10.2011

You did read your own article? It states that turkish busines faces many problems in germany. I can speak more for italy though. In italy it is hard for arabs to do business. People avoid them. Some cities even ban their stores from the city and push them in the outer quarters.

Turks are not even 8% of the german population. I heared kurds are almost 30% in turkey and have far more children than turks. Its good that turkey will have a kurdish majority in a few decades.

 

[cyphercide]

Fair point. I appreciate it that you haven't lost your cool with so many responses flying around...yet.

But there is a big problem here. If the robots experience malfunction or their software gets attacked/hacked for any reason, thus impairing production, the robots won't fix themselves, and will still require human intellect and labor to repair and maintain them. Artificial Intelligence cannot replace Human labor due its countless vulnerabilities.

With printer technology, we can envision a future where bots could "heal", fix themselves or even replicate with the help of advanced AI. Of course, humans wouldn't be phased out of assembly lines just yet but my larger point was that large scale automation and technology would eventually put even the local population out of jobs. Everyone goes bust in the end.

It's either that or be a luddite society with no competitive edge.

The other form of Socialism, one that is not commonly known is Hitlerite Socialism, AKA National Socialism. This form of Socialism does acknowledge the innate human trait of selfishness, and does not deny the individual his desire to pursue an increased salary or better standard of living through his hard work, however on one condition that the product of his work be in consonance with the interest of his community with which he/she shares a common bond.

A Capitalist society, on the other hand, puts materialism on a pedestal. Materialism is the heart of Capitalism. Material is worth more than the human being, and a human being is given a similar status as that of a inanimate object. Those who own the industries and manufacturing base have only the goal of making as much profit as possible through as many loopholes in the system as possible, whether it be through illegal or legal means, and at the expense of others well being. Only plutocrats who's desire it is to only serve their own personal interests favor such a system as Capitalism.

I've never heard anyone terming Nazism as "Hitlerite Socialism". In fact, the general consensus is that it is a form of Fascism than anything else. Many members have already pointed out the problems with German economy. No point in further discussing that. What about the racial politics, subjugation of the church and crimes perpetrated by the state? What about the war on culture and arts, state mandated propaganda for education and driving intellectuals out who don't fit into the Nazi narrative?

I understand your sympathies but some things look best only from a distance.

 

[Desert Fox]

Fair point. I appreciate it that you haven't lost your cool with so many responses flying around...yet.



With printer technology, we can envision a future where bots could "heal", fix themselves or even replicate with the help of advanced AI. Of course, humans wouldn't be phased out of assembly lines just yet but my larger point was that large scale automation and technology would eventually put even the local population out of jobs. Everyone goes bust in the end.

It's either that or be a luddite society with no competitive edge.

Well, i doubt human labor will be replaced anytime soon by artificial intelligence. Such robots who can "heal" and "replicate" themselves seem like a very distant technology still in its infancy, not to mention very expensive and untested tech. Not sure if it will be adopted or even considered before its deemed unreliable.

I've never heard anyone terming Nazism as "Hitlerite Socialism". In fact, the general consensus is that it is a form of Fascism than anything else. Many members have already pointed out the problems with German economy. No point in further discussing that.

Nope, not at all. National Socialism has as much similarities with Fascism as it does with Communism and Capitalism, in other words, very little.

Hitler never called himself a "Fascist", however he did call himself a Socialist on numerous occasions.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”-Adolf Hitler, May 1,1927 speech.

Fascism is purely an Italian political ideology of Benito Mussolini. Fascist Italy under Mussolini also had a Grand Rabbi of Rome. So how can National Socialism be a Fascist Ideology??

What about the racial politics, subjugation of the church and crimes perpetrated by the state? What about the war on culture and arts, state mandated propaganda for education and driving intellectuals out who don't fit into the Nazi narrative?

I understand your sympathies but some things look best only from a distance.

The racial laws of National socialist Germany were only intended towards the preservation of the German people and Nationhood, and not towards the hatred of other races.

Regarding the "subjugation of the church", that was never so. The status of Churches in Germany today was the same under Hitler. Nothing has changed in fact.When the Germans overran the Western territories of the Soviet union, they allowed Church services which were banned under Soviet authority.

Regarding everything else, well 6 million Communist party members converted over to National Socialism and gave Hitler their full support. Hitler was democratically elected. Every German from all walks of life supported Hitler even to the bitter end. He was the most popular leader in recent European history (from 29th century onward). Many foreign politicians and journalists confirm these facts.

 

[gambit]

A Capitalist society, on the other hand, puts materialism on a pedestal. Materialism is the heart of Capitalism. Material is worth more than the human being,..

That is so wrong it really is amazing that you actually believe it.

Capitalism is about the person. Not his humanity, but his/her person. As in rights and freedoms. I can work as hard as I want to make as much profit from my labor as I can, but there is NOTHING about capitalism that says I must keep everything I earned. I can give some, most, or even all of it away, if I wanted to do so.

Materialism is how a person view objects IN RELATIONS TO HIS HUMANITY. This is where you guys got it all wrong.

Materialism is deeply personal. Capitalism does not care about your humanity, only that you have the right to profit from things that you own and that includes your labor. What you do with your profits came from how view your soul and your humanity.

If I make a million dollars and give away 90% of it, am I still a millionaire ? Absolutely -- for as long (or brief) as I have that million. So how does that say capitalism places materialism over the human being ? It does not. In other words, it goes back to what you do with your wealth, one dollar or one million dollar, that defines you and your humanity.

 

[Hakan]

That is so wrong it really is amazing that you actually believe it.

Capitalism is about the person. Not his humanity, but his/her person. As in rights and freedoms. I can work as hard as I want to make as much profit from my labor as I can, but there is NOTHING about capitalism that says I must keep everything I earned. I can give some, most, or even all of it away, if I wanted to do so.

Materialism is how a person view objects IN RELATIONS TO HIS HUMANITY. This is where you guys got it all wrong.

Materialism is deeply personal. Capitalism does not care about your humanity, only that you have the right to profit from things that you own and that includes your labor. What you do with your profits came from how view your soul and your humanity.

If I make a million dollars and give away 90% of it, am I still a millionaire ? Absolutely -- for as long (or brief) as I have that million. So how does that say capitalism places materialism over the human being ? It does not. In other words, it goes back to what you do with your wealth, one dollar or one million dollar, that defines you and your humanity.

Desert fox wrote that i didn't quote him correctly. I was talking about I.T.

 

[gambit]

Desert fox wrote that i didn't quote him correctly. I was talking about I.T.

Whoever wrote it -- did not know what he was talking about.

Just because I want better physical comfort in my life that does not make me a 'materialist'. Mildly decadent, perhaps ?

A true 'materialist' is someone who needs material things TO define his life. The word 'to' is important here.

to - definition of to by Macmillan Dictionary

when someone is affected by something

in a particular relationship with someone/something

A mechanic needs tools to define what he is and what he does. In the old days, an architect or an engineer is not if he does not know how to use a slide rule. So in those narrow contexts, a mechanic needs tools, material things, to define himself and to advertise to others what he is and what he does for a living.

In broader contexts, one does not need to be a millionaire to be a materialist. We all have heard the old saying of 'living beyond your means' or 'keeping up with the Joneses', right ? A pauper can be as much a materialist as a millionaire, just that he may not have a talent and the intellect to exploit that talent to make himself a millionaire. So in the end, he wears 'replica' watches, buy fake Gucci items, and/or put aerodynamic effects panels on his four cylinder econo-car. All to present an image of what he is not and what he is not is what he wants to be.

Capitalism have nothing to do with this. All capitalism does is demand that you are given the right and freedom to profit from your own labor and property. It ends there.

 

[cyphercide]

Well, i doubt human labor will be replaced anytime soon by artificial intelligence. Such robots who can "heal" and "replicate" themselves seem like a very distant technology still in its infancy, not to mention very expensive and untested tech. Not sure if it will be adopted or even considered before its deemed unreliable..

The larger point being automation, given the current circumstances and systems, always strives to replace or reduce human interaction(labor) within the industry. The job that required a certain amount of people to do is under constant threat of resizing resources. Maybe I'm just too big of a fan of Vonnegut since high school!!!

Nope, not at all. National Socialism has as much similarities with Fascism as it does with Communism and Capitalism, in other words, very little.
Hitler never called himself a "Fascist", however he did call himself a Socialist on numerous occasions.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.”-Adolf Hitler, May 1,1927 speech.

Fascism is purely an Italian political ideology of Benito Mussolini. Fascist Italy under Mussolini also had a Grand Rabbi of Rome. So how can National Socialism be a Fascist Ideology??

The racial laws of National socialist Germany were only intended towards the preservation of the German people and Nationhood, and not towards the hatred of other races.

I disagree. While I never claimed that Nazism is merely an offshoot of Fascism(even though the general consensus tilts that direction), it closely resembles Fascism as compared to any other ideology. Both professed a totalitarian political entity, both advocated for a state of hypernationalism and both relied on virulent opposition to Communism as well as propounding an alternative to western Capitalism.

The sticking difference between the two is that Nazism worked for pan-Germanism in adherence to pseudo doctrines of racial hygiene and race supremacy. The Fascists were no less racists(as documented in history), but it was mostly used as a rallying point and never gained the level of importance as verified in Nazi Germany.

This is probably(?) why racists tend to gravitate towards neo-Nazism. That said, I'm fairly sure they have glowing reviews about Italian Fascism as well.

Regarding the "subjugation of the church", that was never so. The status of Churches in Germany today was the same under Hitler. Nothing has changed in fact.When the Germans overran the Western territories of the Soviet union, they allowed Church services which were banned under Soviet authority.

I disagree. While an exhaustive account of religion under Nazism has been covered under William L. Shirer's "The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich" and following works, this BBC article should suffice condensing them accurately. I would go as far as claiming Hitler tried to invent his own religion with the German National Church.

Links with the Catholic and Protestant Churches

Hitler signed a concordat with the Pope in 1933. He promised full religious freedom for the Church and the Pope promised that he wouldn’t interfere in political matters.

Then, the Nazis started to close Catholic churches. Many monasteries were shut down and the Catholic Youth Organisation was abolished (remember that the Nazis had created the Hitler Youth Movement).

The Pope protested by issuing a letter in 1937, which was to be read in every Catholic Church. This didn’t have any impact at all.

Around 400 priests were arrested and sent to the Dachau concentration camp.

The National Reich Church
There were 28 Protestant groups in Germany, and they were merged to form the National Reich Church in 1936. A member of the Nazi party was elected Bishop of the Church. Non-Aryan ministers were suspended.

Church members called themselves German Christians, with "the Swastika on their chest and the Cross in their heart."

Not everyone was happy with the new Church. The Confessing Church was formed by Martin Niemöller in 1934 with 6,000 ministers, leaving 2,000 behind in the National Reich Church. This was a challenge to the Nazis. Around 800 ministers were arrested and sent to concentration camps.

• 
  
  
  • Niemöller was arrested in 1937 and sent to Dachau, then Sachsenhausen, until 1945.
  • Dietreich Bonhoeffer was imprisoned in 1943 and was later executed.

Further information
Christians weren’t the only ones being persecuted by the Nazis. About one-third of Jehovah Witnesses were killed in concentration camps as they weren’t willing to fight for any cause, and therefore refused to serve in the army.

The following religious groups disappeared from Germany:

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  • The Salvation Army
  • Christian Saints
  • The Seventh Day Adventist Church

The following groups were banned:

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  • Astrologers
  • Healers
  • Fortune tellers

BBC - GCSE Bitesize: What effect did the Nazis' racial and religious policy have on life in Germany?

Regarding everything else, well 6 million Communist party members converted over to National Socialism and gave Hitler their full support. Hitler was democratically elected. Every German from all walks of life supported Hitler even to the bitter end. He was the most popular leader in recent European history (from 29th century onward). Many foreign politicians and journalists confirm these facts.

While it is true that Hitler rose through seemingly democratic methods, he held on to that power like any other petty dictator would. Elections were promised but they never happened, and once the Enabling Act was passed, all other political parties were rounded up and eliminated. Every German institution, civil and military, undertook the oath personally promising their collective loyalties to Hitler, and not Germany.

Hitler oath - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To term him anything lesser than a tyrant would be a grave disservice to Germany.