Capability Gap : Ship/Submarine to Land

[Zarvan]

In case you failed to notice, I have been shouting for this capability for some time. Pakistan Navy seriously lacks this capability which in my humble view as a very small student of geo strategic and defence affairs will be key in future conflicts with India. India soon will come up with a 1500 KM version of Brahmos or some other cruise missile which it can fire from its Destroyers or heavy Frigates like Talwar Class. We still lack that capability. Yes we have shown it through Azmat Class and Harbah Missile. But Harbah Range is only 450 KM. Let's assume in reality it's 750, still not enough.

So until India knows that you have the capability to use Submarines and Ships to rain few dozen cruise missiles on Mumbai or Goa or Bangalore or even Hyderabad and Chennai. India won't hesitate attack Karachi or Gwadar or Omara or even Hyderabad and areas deep inside Baluchistan and Sindh. Yes our land Missiles specially ballistic missiles cover that area. But your Navy should have same capability and same long range cruise missiles to do the job.

USA Navy Tests Ship to Land Attack Tomahawk BLOCK V. It's declared range is 2500 KM. It can target moving ships at sea with same precision as fix targets on land.

Russia launches 26 cruise missiles to northern Syria

US warship fires Tomahawk Land Attack missiles at ISIL in Syria

Pictures and Videos are here for reference only.

 

[Tipu7]

Few points:

1: Brahmos ASM current range is 290 kms. It's 450 version, called Brahmos-ER has recently cleared initial testing. Once fully cleared, Brahmos-ER will be fielded by all existing as well as upcoming fleet of IN frigates and destroyers. (possibly corvettes too).

Meanwhile, PN will showcase its own supersonic missile which interms of performance is believed to be superior than Brahmos family. So missiles of comparative ranges will exist on both sides. When IN will bring warships to strike costal assets, their warships will be within strike range of PN also.

2: It's not 1971 era when a navy can ambush a port and docked ships. PN got sufficient recon assets and it's modernizing and expanding its fleet in all three dimensions. Any maneuver meant for saturated missile strike will be noticed and counters will be made. So IN warships cannot just conduct a saturated strike against Pakistan Navy. Instead, IN focus will be to impose blockade and conduct hunter killer missions using CSGs, subs and MPAs.

3: Both forces are equipped with air borne anti ship assets which can cover ranges longer than that of ship based missiles. Subs are also part of equation which will be positioned appropriately to deny or degrade such daring strike. In US, Russia cases, their navies conducted missile strikes against asymmetric enemy - one which do not have a proper Navy or naval projection capabilities. Hence, their case cannot be applied on that of South Asia.

4: PN assets and infrastructure will be splitting into three major bases with task force groups of their own. Karachi will no longer be epicenter of PN power projection. Hypothetically, even if IN manages to conduct such strike against Karachi, it will be of limited strategic value and henceforth counter productive.

 

[Zarvan]

Three points:

1: Brahmos ASM current range is 290 kms. It's 450 version, called Brahmos-ER has recently cleared initial testing. Once fully cleared, Brahmos-ER will be fielded by all existing as well as upcoming fleet of IN frigates and destroyers. (possibly corvettes too).

Meanwhile, PN will showcase its own supersonic missile which interms of performance is believed to be superior than Brahmos family. So missiles of comparative ranges will exist on both sides.

2: It's not 1971 era when a navy can ambush a port and docked ships. PN got sufficient recon assets and it's modernizing and expanding its fleet in all three dimensions. So IN warships cannot just conduct a saturated strike against Pakistan Navy. Instead, IN focus will be to impose blockade and conduct hunter killer missions using CSGs, subs and MPAs. Also, Cruise strikes is just too provocative and might yield more deadly response from Pakistan.

3: Both forces are equipped with air borne anti ship assets which can cover ranges longer than that of ship based missiles. Subs are also part of equation which will be positioned appropriately to deny or degrade such daring strike. In US, Russia cases, their navies conducted missile strikes against asymmetric enemy - one which do not have a proper Navy or naval projection capabilities. Hence, their case cannot be applied on that of South Asia.

4: PN assets and infrastructure will be splitting into three major bases with task force groups of their own. Karachi will no longer be epicenter of PN power projection. Hypothetically, even if IN manages to conduct such strike against Karachi, it will be of limited strategic value and henceforth counter productive.

Yes Brahmos is until now has only 290 KM range with 400 KM version in trials. But you can't keep sleeping and only wake up when India hits you first. It's time that we stop being a defensive force with a defensive mindset which is only busy countering moves made by India first. India has already made the first move. That is it has inducted those ships which have VLS for long range missiles. Now India needs to increase range of its missiles. Also India has Nirbhay right now has been a failure but it also has some good tests. So the moment India gets better with missiles which if not on its own would become better with either Russian help or help from Israel or even may be even USA. Then we would be in trouble.

 

[Tipu7]

Yes Brahmos is until now has only 290 KM range with 400 KM version in trials. But you can't keep sleeping and only wake up when India hits you first.

Who says we are sleeping?
We got supersonic and hypersonic missiles in development.

It's time that we stop being a defensive force with a defensive mindset which is only busy countering moves made by India first. India has already made the first move. That is it has inducted those ships which have VLS for long range missiles. Now India needs to increase range of its missiles. Also India has Nirbhay right now has been a failure but it also has some good tests. So the moment India gets better with missiles which if not on its own would become better with either Russian help or help from Israel or even may be even USA. Then we would be in trouble.

Navy is full aware of it and the counters are in place or are under way.

 

[Wikki019]

We got supersonic and hypersonic missiles in development.

we got hypersonic missiles in development?

 

[I S I]

we got hypersonic missiles in development?

Chinese=our own xD

 

[Areesh]

we got hypersonic missiles in development?

ex PN Chief Admiral Abbasi said that

 

[Fighting Falcon 01]

we got hypersonic missiles in development?

Yes a supersonic cruise missile and a hypersonic anti ship ballistic missile called P282 which can be fired from ships.

 

[Yousafzai_M]

Meanwhile, PN will showcase its own supersonic missile which interms of performance is believed to be superior than Brahmos family.

Where? when? is there more info about this? never heard of this before, except those Chinese C60 or something but those are slow.

 

[Zarvan]

Yes a supersonic cruise missile and a hypersonic anti ship ballistic missile called P282 which can be fired from ships.

My only hope is that we develop them fast and their range is at least 1500 KM each if not more. It should not 400 or 500 KM but at least 1500 KM. The more it is the better.

 

[Fighting Falcon 01]

My only hope is that we develop them fast and their range is at least 1500 KM each if not more. It should not 400 or 500 KM but at least 1500 KM. The more it is the better.

Hopefully the range will be increased after the induction of the first model... if the hypersonic ballistic missile can be fired from ships then most probably it will be small and will not have a range greater than 400 to 500km which is enough in my opinion since the next gen brahmous will also have a range of 400 to 500 km while our land based systems exceed 700km range enough to protect our EEZ and achieve area denial objectives now with a 20 major ship fleet and 10 MPA the navy is looking to go offensive against IN

 

[Zarvan]

Hopefully the range will be increased after the induction of the first model... if the hypersonic ballistic missile can be fired from ships then most probably it will be small and will not have a range greater than 400 to 500km which is enough in my opinion since the next gen brahmous will also have a range of 400 to 500 km while our land based systems exceed 700km range enough to protect our EEZ and achieve area denial objectives now with a 20 major ship fleet and 10 MPA the navy is looking to go offensive against IN

It's not enough. Not even close to be enough. In fact most stupid range to have. And total waste of time, money and energy if you are going to come up with 400 KM range missile. Brahmos is 400 KM but they are already working on 1500 KM range and thank GOD their Nirbhay failed other wise you would have been facing 1000 KM range Missile which they would have converted into 1800 KM range very soon.

 

[Fighting Falcon 01]

The current brahmous anti ship missile has a range of 290km the NG variants will have 400-450km range..... even if we achieve 500 for anti ship roles it will be great and for 1500km we should work on increasing the range of babur to 1500km or 2000km and we also need to develop sub based version of the supersonic cruise missile eventually the range of the supersonic cruise missile and anti ship ballistic missile will be increased to achieve proper aera denial capabilities .... remember the range of RAAD and Babur were increased in block 2 variants same will happen with both of these missiles but it will take a long time maybe 10 years.

It's not enough. Not even close to be enough. In fact most stupid range to have. And total waste of time, money and energy if you are going to come up with 400 KM range missile. Brahmos is 400 KM but they are already working on 1500 KM range and thank GOD their Nirbhay failed other wise you would have been facing 1000 KM range Missile which they would have converted into 1800 KM range very soon.

It's not like brahmous NG will be inducted tomorrow Indians claim the first prototype will be ready by 2024 by that time both supersonic cruise missile and hypersonic ballistic missiles will be ready ... just wait and watch

 

[TheTallGuy]

Sometimes i pray PN modifies Shaheen 1 700Km SSM modified to antiship ballistic missile on same principle as DF21 and test it...It will end power projection at sea for Indian Navy.

 

[Zarvan]

The current brahmous anti ship missile has a range of 290km the NG variants will have 400-450km range..... even if we achieve 500 for anti ship roles it will be great and for 1500km we should work on increasing the range of babur to 1500km or 2000km and we also need to develop sub based version of the supersonic cruise missile eventually the range of the supersonic cruise missile and anti ship ballistic missile will be increased to achieve proper aera denial capabilities .... remember the range of RAAD and Babur were increased in block 2 variants same will happen with both of these missiles but it will take a long time maybe 10 years.

It's not like brahmous NG will be inducted tomorrow Indians claim the first prototype will be ready by 2024 by that time both supersonic cruise missile and hypersonic ballistic missiles will be ready ... just wait and watch

Babur is already in its 15th year of production. We need to come to up with 1500 KM to 2000 KM version fast. Also we should come up with Harbah version which can be fired from Missile Boats but has range of 800 to 900 KM. That would be great boost also.