Can USA Jammed/Hacked Pakistan's F-16 ?

[CriticalThought]

I was on the F-16 for five yrs -- MacDill AFB. Tampa, Florida.

No internal jammers, kill switches, back doors, self destruct, or any such nonsense on foreign sales F-16s.

There is nothing I or General Dynamics or Boeing can say that will convince you otherwise -- if you are already inclined to believe that there are such things installed. No reason or logic will suffice.

But what you can tell us is this. What would happen if a PAF F-16 attempted to intercept a US F-16 in anger and engaged in a dogfight? What would be the outcome of that fight? And what measures would the US take to prepare for the next fight? Are you telling us that the US is supplying state of the art weaponry that could one day attack it?

I happen to work with systems that are literally running the modern world. And I can tell you, there is no such thing as a bug free system. Knowing such defects can give the side an unfair advantage, to the extent of putting equipment out of commission. Are you telling us that the highly complex machine that is F-16 Fighting Falcon is absolutely free of bugs that were discovered after it was delivered to Pakistan?

And then we have facebook. Oh yes, Facebook, Facebook, Facebook. And of course Google, Microsoft etc. Knowingly putting backdoors is now a regular theme in Hollywood movies. Mr. Snowden has forever tarnished American reputation when it comes to honesty and reliability of electronic equipment.

Of course you would give us the official spiel. But these days, people simply know better.

so lets stop harping on the F-16s then.

Hey, I am not harping. I didn't post OP. I simply answered the person's question.

 

[Raider 21]

I was on the F-16 for five yrs -- MacDill AFB. Tampa, Florida.

No internal jammers, kill switches, back doors, self destruct, or any such nonsense on foreign sales F-16s.

There is nothing I or General Dynamics or Boeing can say that will convince you otherwise -- if you are already inclined to believe that there are such things installed. No reason or logic will suffice.

Must have been quite a change to see Vipers relocating West from Tampa to Phoenix. I think most of the RTUs were at Madill AFB.

 

[zectech]

China's S-300 bought from Russia also has back door.

Almaz-Antey is a zionist operation, so that does not surprise me.

... clfied...

If Isreal attacks Syria and Assad's Russian made ADS radars don't work, that is called a back door incident.

 

[gambit]

But what you can tell us is this. What would happen if a PAF F-16 attempted to intercept a US F-16 in anger and engaged in a dogfight? What would be the outcome of that fight?

Depends on the pilots.

Are you telling us that the US is supplying state of the art weaponry that could one day attack it?

If I reply 'Yes', would you believe me?

I happen to work with systems that are literally running the modern world. And I can tell you, there is no such thing as a bug free system. Knowing such defects can give the side an unfair advantage, to the extent of putting equipment out of commission. Are you telling us that the highly complex machine that is F-16 Fighting Falcon is absolutely free of bugs that were discovered after it was delivered to Pakistan?

The above put in question your claim of working in the technical field, particularly your usage of 'bug'.

And then we have facebook. Oh yes, Facebook, Facebook, Facebook. And of course Google, Microsoft etc. Knowingly putting backdoors is now a regular theme in Hollywood movies. Mr. Snowden has forever tarnished American reputation when it comes to honesty and reliability of electronic equipment.

This further strengthened the question of your claim to be in a technical field. A 'backdoor' have nothing to do with reliability. Absolutely NOTHING.

Of course you would give us the official spiel. But these days, people simply know better.

Pakistan can always buy from the Soviets/Russians. After all, they are world famous for their honesty, unlike Amerikans.

 

[CriticalThought]

Depends on the pilots.


If I reply 'Yes', would you believe me?


The above put in question your claim of working in the technical field, particularly your usage of 'bug'.


This further strengthened the question of your claim to be in a technical field. A 'backdoor' have nothing to do with reliability. Absolutely NOTHING.


Pakistan can always buy from the Soviets/Russians. After all, they are world famous for their honesty, unlike Amerikans.

Haha play on words, avoiding direct answers. OK, let me ask you a different question. Why is the entire Western block so concerned about security issues with Huawei's products?

This further strengthened the question of your claim to be in a technical field. A 'backdoor' have nothing to do with reliability. Absolutely NOTHING.

Yep, and you have nothing to do with flying. Absolutely NOTHING.

But just for the general reader, would you consider your car reliable if it kept breaking down every mile because somebody was exploiting a backdoor?

 

[S.Y.A]

I was on the F-16 for five yrs -- MacDill AFB. Tampa, Florida.

No internal jammers, kill switches, back doors, self destruct, or any such nonsense on foreign sales F-16s.

There is nothing I or General Dynamics or Boeing can say that will convince you otherwise -- if you are already inclined to believe that there are such things installed. No reason or logic will suffice.

US DoD itself is concerned about backdoors, to the extent that they are ready to fund research that finds vulnerabilities in the systems by small startups. and this is public knowledge. there is no guarantee that they arent doing it to others.

https://sbir.defensebusiness.org/topics?topicId=30335

you are an american and it makes sense that you will defend your country. the thing that is problematic is that pakistanis are bending over backwards to defend them.

Pakistan can always buy from the Soviets/Russians. After all, they are world famous for their honesty, unlike Amerikans.

problem remains the same, until and unless in house production is done.

 

[VCheng]

Source please?

You can ask your respected colleague below how he/she is able to confirm that.

True that. However would the encryption keys be stopped in an Indo Pak scenario where US avaition industry will showcase the AIM120C5 and tell the world how good their wares actually are. I think NOT!!.
A

In an Indo-Pak scenario, likely not, I agree. But the software on the plane is smart enough to know what to do when the encryption keys are present and what to do when they are not, and not just in black and white.

Are you implying encryption keys are handed by USA to foreign users? Or each user has the ability to generate encryption keys to prevent unauthorized use ... if such a mechanism even exist. If its the former than it is a very centralized approach that I don’t understand how it can fit in the operations of any customers airforce or who would even agree to this?
@gambit @Oscar Any thoughts on what our esteemed member is claiming here. If true then PAF cannot be the first.

I am not implying anything. I am saying it clearly: PAF F-16s require encryption keys which are provided to them periodically by a set procedure.

 

[wulff]

Okay. There are a few other ways (apart from the mission planning keys referred to above):
1. Firstly, the US has the IFF codes of the Pakistani F-16 fleet. If those IFF codes were ever to 'make their way' into an enemy aircraft, then the enemy aircraft, when it is detected by a PAF F-16 on radar, will show up as a friendly plane. The PAF F-16 will not be able to lock on or fire a guided missile at this aircraft. This applies to any aircraft or radar that Pakistan procures from the US.

2. Secondly, and this is quite specific to F-16 Block 52s: these aircraft carry a 'primitive' version of the F-35's ALIS system. Look up the capabilities of the F-35 ALIS and how it has left many F-35 customers worried. The system basically keeps the F-35 always connected to lockheed martin's networks. The F-35 is a sensor truck and all the different signals picked up by its sensors (ELINT, optical, radar tracks) are relayed in realtime to lockheed martin's network. This basically turns every F-35 in the world into a listening station for the USAF. Lockheed will be able to know exactly where every F-35 is at any point of time, what it is doing, and what its sensors are seeing. You can see where this is going.... Lockheed will be able to push over-the-air software updates to the F-35, just like apple pushes them to your iphone, and it isn't possible for a user to disconnect their F-35s from this system.
A very, very primitive version of this system exists in the F-16 Block 52. This ensures that the US is able to maintain control over any aircraft sold by them, which they are able to justify by the law that someone pointed out earlier in this thread.

 

[Raider 21]

Okay. There are a few other ways (apart from the mission planning keys referred to above):
1. Firstly, the US has the IFF codes of the Pakistani F-16 fleet. If those IFF codes were ever to 'make their way' into an enemy aircraft, then the enemy aircraft, when it is detected by a PAF F-16 on radar, will show up as a friendly plane. The PAF F-16 will not be able to lock on or fire a guided missile at this aircraft. This applies to any aircraft or radar that Pakistan procures from the US.

2. Secondly, and this is quite specific to F-16 Block 52s: these aircraft carry a 'primitive' version of the F-35's ALIS system. Look up the capabilities of the F-35 ALIS and how it has left many F-35 customers worried. The system basically keeps the F-35 always connected to lockheed martin's networks. The F-35 is a sensor truck and all the different signals picked up by its sensors (ELINT, optical, radar tracks) are relayed in realtime to lockheed martin's network. This basically turns every F-35 in the world into a listening station for the USAF. Lockheed will be able to know exactly where every F-35 is at any point of time, what it is doing, and what its sensors are seeing. You can see where this is going.... Lockheed will be able to push over-the-air software updates to the F-35, just like apple pushes them to your iphone, and it isn't possible for a user to disconnect their F-35s from this system.
A very, very primitive version of this system exists in the F-16 Block 52. This ensures that the US is able to maintain control over any aircraft sold by them, which they are able to justify by the law that someone pointed out earlier in this thread.

Tell where did you get info for point 1. It would be a great help for all Viper B Studs across the world.

 

[khanmubashir]

These planes r thoroughly checked and overhauled by our technician so I don't think so but jdam and jets too USA gps with which they can track it's position if it's using GPS and as in kargil can deny it's satellite guidance

 

[wulff]

Tell where did you get info for point 1. It would be a great help for all Viper B Studs across the world.

Thanks for pointing that out. I realize lock on is possible, but can you can actually shoot a missile at a NATO aircraft in an F-16?

 

[GriffinsRule]

Thanks for pointing that out. I realize lock on is possible, but can you can actually shoot a missile at a NATO aircraft in an F-16?

Im sure TuAF intends to shoot down Greek Mirages and F-16s if push comes to shove.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

I am not implying anything. I am saying it clearly: PAF F-16s require encryption keys which are provided to them periodically by a set procedure.

Provided by who? US?

 

[messiach]

Well said. Could be the CDFU logic operators on board.

Almaz-Antey is a zionist operation, so that does not surprise me.

... clfied...

If Isreal attacks Syria and Assad's Russian made ADS radars don't work, that is called a back door incident.

I have supervised an incident report onboard block60 with Data transfer line killed with partial irrecoverable loss of mission data due to non redundancy.

I was on the F-16 for five yrs -- MacDill AFB. Tampa, Florida.

No internal jammers, kill switches, back doors, self destruct, or any such nonsense on foreign sales F-16s.

There is nothing I or General Dynamics or Boeing can say that will convince you otherwise -- if you are already inclined to believe that there are such things installed. No reason or logic will suffice.

 

[CriticalThought]

Im sure TuAF intends to shoot down Greek Mirages and F-16s if push comes to shove.

Under the assumption that their IFF codes are not compromised. The question remains, if two F-16s have exactly same IFF, can one obtain a lock and fire in anger at the other? We know PAF had a friendly fire incident, but that was an AIM-9 heat seeker I believe which targeted the wrong heat source. What would be the situation with AMRAAM?

OK. Searching F-16 blue on blue brings up the following

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarnak_Farm_incident

https://theaviationist.com/2014/02/19/friendly-fire-on-usarmy/

So it stands to reason that if the F-16 was remotely controlled to avoid firing at own troops, these incidents would not have happened. Similarly, friendly forces can simply 'get in the way' after the F-16 has fired. Which means there is no 'loophole' built into the weapons that would make them avoid friendlies.

It also stands to reason that such capability would not be made widely available, because of the sheer logistics of keeping it secret. The average American fighter pilot would not have access to it, and would be at risk from other fighter jets.

But the question still stands, is there a secret capability which only the most elite forces hold, that guarantees American supremacy when faced with weapons supplied by America? Let's be realistic, America has had to contend with the notion after the Iranian revolution when F-14s fell into hands not directly aligned with American interests. It also stands to reason that American military planners have learnt lessons from this and incorporated them into new equipment.

But most importantly, the American pet dog Israel gives the game away. This nation keeps whining about its small size in a big, bad neighborhood. At even the slightest whiff of becoming second fiddle to another military power in the region, Israel starts raising a rukus. The presence of extremely large amounts of Western supplied hardware, and Israel's silence over it, means that Israel is somehow assured of its safety.