What's new

Can Silicon Dragon Really Rival Silicon Valley?

I am a IT engineer, from what I have seen, China has a long way to exceed west in terms of innovation. What I have experienced in western company is that they encourage you to propose project, ideas, even directly to the senior level manager. But in Chinese company, I have never seen this. In the chinese company I have worked for, I can say the Chinese Engineer works almost twice of time compare to the engineer in UK. But they are working on repeat things, nothing innovative, the company does not spend money on new ideas, they prefer to do existing things and bid on project with a low price, also, its far harder for Chinese small innovative business to get a start-up investment. Many money goes into state-owned company, but they did nothing innovative. My family works in a research center in a state-owned company, the research there is just a joke.
Your honesty will not be appreciated among the Chinese membership here, sir. I have seen similar things -- so similar that they might as well be identical -- when we set up our new manufacturing facility (semicon) in mainland China. The attitude was noticeably different than what we saw in Singapore and Taiwan. Risk aversion, even at the personal level, let alone organizational or higher corporate, is institutionalized. That does not mean there are no risk taking. Yes, some are brave enough, but currently institutionalized risk aversion in Chinese companies are at the high end of the scale, meaning excessive analyses, studies, and meetings. Paralysis via analyses.

Copy Exactly!
Fabrication (Fab), sort, and assembly test facilities follow a Copy Exactly! (CE!) philosophy. Copy Exactly! enables delivery of product from multiple production sites, which operate as a virtual factory that performs consistently and independent of the manufacturing source site. Additional benefits include faster production ramps that improve product availability and improved consistency to quality performance.
We call it 'CopySmart'. If it was not for CS, it would have taken at least twice as long for us to start up a new fab, literally from the raw building structure, to even hiring personnel, for our new plant in China.
 
.
I laugh so hard after I read your post.

Well, I will not stop you from believing a farce.

But 2 things I want to say before I part way

1.) a counter claim cannot be uses to disprove a claim. If you cannot claim something happen, it can still happens.

For example.

I believe you NEVER see a UFO in your life, so, by this logic, can you say UFO does not exist??

so, by saying I cannot show 1 example and my claim is baseless <---this statement is illogical.


I am seriously worried about your IQ, dude.:rofl:

wtf? :hitwall: You are full of logical fallacies.

If I claim that all birds are blue (i.e. all inventors or scientists have high IQ). To prove that I can do 1 of 2 things, or both:

A. I list all the inventors and scientists in human history, everyone, together with their IQ.

B. I will explain the methdology list all the major peer-reviewd literature to make a point, AND disprove ALL the criticism.

I don't have all the time in the world to do any of above, at least not in this nameless forum, with a bnuch of 82 IQers.


So, the easiest thing you could do is to disprove me is show me that 1 brid is black, or any colour other than blue (i.e. 1 inventor or scientist has a low IQ).

Out of countless millions of examples, you only have to show me 1 person.

is that simple?




2.) 100 IQ Is consider NORMAL in highly industrial society. 110 is considered near geniuses. 120 is considered geniuses. 140 or above is considered ultra geniuses. 90 is under the benchmark in highly industrial society

now, go on and believe your dream :) But then again, what do you expect from a Chinese member eh?



no no no :disagree: that is NOT what I wrote. Where I wrote that? that is what you claim.

I only said to maintain a modern industrialised society, a country needs to have about 90 average IQ like minimum - meaning if you are below 90, or well below it, it is very likely that the country will NEVER be industrialised properly as per today's standard - there is a highly reputed paper done on this long ago.


Within a highly industrialised socierty:

-110 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

-120 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

120 is the average IQ to get you a hard sciecne gradaute degree from a reputed university, such as B.S. Computer engineering from Cambridge or Caltec. - called gifted.

-130 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

130 is about the level of a hard science postgrad from a reputed university, such as PhD Physics from Duke or Tsinghua.- highly gifted though.

A genius is generally considered to have > 140 IQ.

...gee man, why i want to educate you on these basics?

Your honesty will not be appreciated among the Chinese membership here, sir. I have seen similar things -- so similar that they might as well be identical -- when we set up our new manufacturing facility (semicon) in mainland China. The attitude was noticeably different than what we saw in Singapore and Taiwan. Risk aversion, even at the personal level, let alone organizational or higher corporate, is institutionalized. That does not mean there are no risk taking. Yes, some are brave enough, but currently institutionalized risk aversion in Chinese companies are at the high end of the scale, meaning excessive analyses, studies, and meetings. Paralysis via analyses.

Copy Exactly!

We call it 'CopySmart'. If it was not for CS, it would have taken at least twice as long for us to start up a new fab, literally from the raw building structure, to even hiring personnel, for our new plant in China.

all i see is that you piece of crappy work is so eager to take advantage of some kind and innocent minds...:rofl:
 
.
Lol.. same old dumb chinese IQ $hit!!! :yay:

Silicon Valley was started, and developed to its peak in the 90's/00's, by some of the best of the whites (about 130 IQers on average), soom after joined by minorities partcularly smart ethnics Chinese(135-140IQers)from China mainland or overseas...

Yet since the last decade Silicon Valley has been increasingly jam-packed with massive H1b1 Indians (100-110 IQers, first introduced by politically correct Microsoft)and countless Indian call-centre grade basic code writers and snake oil "outscouce" defaulters, asylum seekers-turned "entepreneurs" under either Indian tribal or just family-based "startups" loaned by US Minority preferential Loan Schemes, with average IQ of about 80 to 90 max...

...while China's "valley" has been supposely consisted of 130 to 140 IQers consistently.

You do the maths!

full_142742024.jpg


I am seriously worried about your IQ, dude.:rofl:

wtf? :hitwall: You are full of logical fallacies.

If I claim that all birds are blue (i.e. all inventors or scientists have high IQ). To prove that I can do 1 of 2 things, or both:

A. I list all the inventors and scientists in human history, everyone, together with their IQ.

B. I will explain the methdology list all the major peer-reviewd literature to make a point, AND disprove ALL the criticism.

I don't have all the time in the world to do any of above, at least not in this nameless forum, with a bnuch of 82 IQers.


So, the easiest thing you could do is to disprove me is show me that 1 brid is black, or any colour other than blue (i.e. 1 inventor or scientist has a low IQ).

Out of countless millions of examples, you only have to show me 1 person.

is that simple?








no no no :disagree: that is NOT what I wrote. Where I wrote that? that is what you claim.

I only said to maintain a modern industrialised society, a country needs to have about 90 average IQ like minimum - meaning if you are below 90, or well below it, it is very likely that the country will NEVER be industrialised properly as per today's standard - there is a highly reputed paper done on this long ago.


Within a highly industrialised socierty:

-110 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

-120 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

120 is the average IQ to get you a hard sciecne gradaute degree from a reputed university, such as B.S. Computer engineering from Cambridge or Caltec. - called gifted.

-130 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

130 is about the level of a hard science postgrad from a reputed university, such as PhD Physics from Duke or Tsinghua.- highly gifted though.

A genius is generally considered to have > 140 IQ.

...gee man, why i want to educate you on these basics?



all i see is that you piece of crappy work is so eager to take advantage of some kind and innocent minds...:rofl:
 
. .
:omghaha: it looks like that you are so familiar with that number that i wonder if it is saved in your hard drive?

lol.. since you are so firm believer in this IQ **** and always goes by internet numbers & generalization of masses- that number is just perfect for you.. :cheers:
 
.
There’re countless threads in the web on the related Q&A. I don’t have time and patience to argue much with deniers who will use every logical fallacies in the book , tell every lies they come across, and repeat them over and over until the cow goes home…but a quickie:

1. 90 level is about the minimum to maintain a prosperous modern industrialised society.

2. almost ANY internationally recognised standardised IQ test can do. for one of the heavy g-loaded tests, e.g. look for Raven Matrix.

3. the whole IQ things are highly correlated with the actual invention level, throughout the entire human history, in every corner of the world.

Finally, wtf? Are you messing up things again? It is YOU who only need to raise a single counter example, as the simplest way like what I suggest, in order to disprove my point , saving both your time and mine. Yet you can’t.

Keep up lying.:lol:









eddieInUK,

What you wrote, first appear being “true” stereotypes, represent some of the typical mis-information put forward by race-deniers, promoted heavily in the main stream media by the Marxists and Socialists. In a way you are, even though quite innocently, helping these Marxists spreading this mis-information and stereotypes on the overseas Chinese.


--IQ can be very accurately AND objectively measured, while the Marxist so-called "EQ" no, not even remotely.

-- there is no “EQ” thing. So called “EQ”, backed by the whole “EQ” industry consisted of some d@#khead sociologists and social workers of NGOs, was invented by the Marxists in order to draw even between higher IQers and lowers ones in some way, because it’s not PC to say that some people, on average, are better on whatever in public. For them the higher IQ people somehow magically must have low “EQ”. If one has low IQ, he must have high “EQ”, at least according to stereotypes. See? Everyone is the same? Yet by claiming some ppl having “lower” “EQ” than others, they themselves are using double standard they dispise when talking about ‘IQ”. But since they are Marxists, they’re always correct using any fallacy. :rofl:

-- On this “India talk more Chinese talk less” claim, probably there are some truth in it, e.g. Chinese defence forum/threads here are much less “takative” than the Indian counterparts, but for drastically different reasons you propose. Some of the main reasons at different levels that I can immediately relate to are :

i) higher IQ people, on average and logically, need much less time and words to effectively convey the same ideas clearly amongst themselves than lower IQ people would do. To give a simple and a bit extreme example, there have been largely no words or grammars in African languages & tribal tones in pre-modern world having meanings of the concepts of “Tomorrow” or “doing sth at the exactly the same time tomorrow”. Hence it would take them lots of explanations to communicate that level of understandings, whereas in East Asia or Europe, for example, it’s matter of a few precise words. This is a stereotypical impression with some truth in it.

ii) it’s a question of natural self-defence mechanism in essence IMO. Talking more, or equivalently more socialised, gives weaker ones higher chance for survival. See, both higher IQers and lower IQers have survived natural selection by deploying different mechanisms: higher IQ ppl use brain and strategies more to survive, hence relying on group defence formed largely by more inter-person communications ( or “talking”, : Emotions – “EQ”) and physical traits (e.g.Western Afros are explosively faster runners) far less than the lower IQers. A good analogy on difference mechanisms here is in the animal world, for instance, lions relatively live on far fewer group numbers than Zebras do. And certainly tigers are much less “talkative” than birds, because surprise attack is important for the survival of tigers that hunt, while for the latter pre-warnings (“talkative”) and mutual-help ( “socialise”) are more important. :lol:

With time, the aforementioned different mechanisms of natural survival of both high IQers and low ones have evolved into different levels of things like average testosterone level, physical difference adapted to the local environment, group temperament, average number of offspring, group/tribal culture, identity etc, etc… certainly reinforce the IQ further.

So all in all:

“talk more” =//= “ more efficient talk”,

“more talk(more socialising)” =//= “higher so called ‘EQ’ ”,

and Higher IQ =//= lower so-called "EQ". In fact in the absolute term, Han Chinese average Verbal IQ (if that is some form of measurement of quality of "talk") is FAR HIGHER than that of Indians.

An advantage for Indians in teh Western world, though, is that Hindi , and other Indian languages, are closer to European language family than East Asian languages are, thus for them is more natural to pick up English, assisted by 300 yrs colonisation - this fascilitates communications.

( also, I suspect that Indian lying have profound genetic basis given aforementioned reasons, aself-protection machanism at work)


IQ deniers (Marxists) deny different IQ while magically admit different "EQ" and insist "low IQ" ppl must have high "EQ". They mix "EQ" with "talkative" and so-called "emotions" amd "music(read:gangster rap) talents" etc etc., using every trick in the book to deliberately confuse the mass. :rofl:

Bill gate zuckburge and steve job they all very quiet person they work more talk less
 
.
Bill gate zuckburge and steve job they all very quiet person they work more talk less

I suspect, with a good reason though, that pathological and pandemic loud mouth indian bragging and lying are out of subconsious genetic need, pushed by a primitive biological self-defence and survival mechanism.
 
.
So Chna's "Valley" consists of >130 IQ ers mostly, whereas S. Valley is increasingly diluted by Indians with average IQ far below that - usually some 20 points below on average.

Theoritically speaking the US is no match for China technologically in the long run, because China has the world's single largest pool of extremely high IQers (>130), followed by old Europe, then Japan and USA...

...the latter one - Japan, East Asia's industrialisation forerunner, actually proved this point in the 80s and 90s when it almost completely dominated the US on majority of high tech fields until the forced Plaza Accord.

Unlike the US, even without ANY foreign top talent input (or even with MANY foreign top talent input in the US), China still has the intellectual edge of sheer numbers to surpass the US technologically, if higher education system is further refined, proper finance is provided, open, honest & non-politically driven competitive research sub-culture is further encouraged.
 
.
Chinese investors should be wary of focusing too much on internet/social media technologies.

Why Facebook is Killing Silicon Valley | Steve Blank

The basic claim in the article is that social media startups offer so much better ROI that investor money is flocking there instead of traditional sectors which take much longer to generate returns. This, in turn, is stifling innovation in these other sectors.

I don't know how accurate the claims are, but the author is a very respectable person with solid credentials.
 
.
Chinese investors should be wary of focusing too much on internet/social media technologies.

Why Facebook is Killing Silicon Valley | Steve Blank

The basic claim in the article is that social media startups offer so much better ROI that investor money is flocking there instead of traditional sectors which take much longer to generate returns. This, in turn, is stifling innovation in these other sectors.

I don't know how accurate the claims are, but the author is a very respectable person with solid credentials.

you are right here IMO. Chinese are not that delusional. Facebook is NO high tech (not even a bit, as it worthed $3,000 bucks as its core technology at its start), its merely an over-hyped hippie, political, and intenet security tool for "Paris Hilton" PC America and NSA/CIA.

On top of that, its most successul element is that it's created by Jews. So it helps Jewish media worldwide domination. That's why WS bankers such as Goldman Sach alike value it so high as billions.
 
.
Chinese are not that delusional.

It's not so much about delusion as human nature. Most investors are in business, not for national interests, but to make money, and they will be drawn to whatever they feel will make them the most money quickest.

That's why select technologies need a combination of government incentives, far-sighted investors, and a mature local market.
 
.
Wish the Chinese economy could be rebalanced between public and private sector. A lot of money are wasted on state-owned companies doing non-sense things. Let market choose what should be done rather than policies.
 
.
I am seriously worried about your IQ, dude.:rofl:

wtf? :hitwall: You are full of logical fallacies.

If I claim that all birds are blue (i.e. all inventors or scientists have high IQ). To prove that I can do 1 of 2 things, or both:

A. I list all the inventors and scientists in human history, everyone, together with their IQ.

B. I will explain the methdology list all the major peer-reviewd literature to make a point, AND disprove ALL the criticism.

I don't have all the time in the world to do any of above, at least not in this nameless forum, with a bnuch of 82 IQers.


So, the easiest thing you could do is to disprove me is show me that 1 brid is black, or any colour other than blue (i.e. 1 inventor or scientist has a low IQ).

Out of countless millions of examples, you only have to show me 1 person.

is that simple?








no no no :disagree: that is NOT what I wrote. Where I wrote that? that is what you claim.

I only said to maintain a modern industrialised society, a country needs to have about 90 average IQ like minimum - meaning if you are below 90, or well below it, it is very likely that the country will NEVER be industrialised properly as per today's standard - there is a highly reputed paper done on this long ago.


Within a highly industrialised socierty:

-110 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

-120 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

120 is the average IQ to get you a hard sciecne gradaute degree from a reputed university, such as B.S. Computer engineering from Cambridge or Caltec. - called gifted.

-130 is NOT considered as genius! that's what you claim.

130 is about the level of a hard science postgrad from a reputed university, such as PhD Physics from Duke or Tsinghua.- highly gifted though.

A genius is generally considered to have > 140 IQ.

...gee man, why i want to educate you on these basics?



all i see is that you piece of crappy work is so eager to take advantage of some kind and innocent minds...:rofl:

Oh, I see the typical "Chinese Logic" again.......

Dude, the problem is not an argument, but a "COUNTER- AGRUMENT" Do you even know what is counter argument?

Let's recap, shall we?

You are saying the Higher the IQ a person got, the more innovative he or she get.

I was asking" can you show any co-relation between IQ and innovation.

Then you said, since I cannot find a single inventor with low IQ, then your statement "the Higher the IQ a person got, the more innovative he or she get." is true.

Now, use the all birds are blue for an example.

First, assume you have not seen any bird. this is for the argument, not the result

If you want to claim, all birds are blue, the only way you can disprove that is by finding a non-blue bird, correct?

However, you are claiming, all birds are blue is true, if someone cannot produce a single "Non-blue" bird without examine all the bird.

The blue parts is the actual claim, which in itself have no problem, the red part, however, is illogical

The question have a 2 dimensions problem.

A.) a non-blue bird can be found "IN THE FUTURE", while the statement "All birds are blue" refer to an indefinite time, at ANYTIME, any person found a non-blue bird can produce a counter claim.

B.) if you have not examine all the birds there are chances that there would be a Non-blue bird

In essence, not that all birds are blue is your argument. But what you use to counter-claim my point is not valid.

Going back to the topic.

Unless you exactly know all the technician and all the inventor and check out their IQ one by one. You cannot use the statement "You cannot produce a single non-high I scientist whom is an inventor" to support your claim is correct.

because for some unseen or unknown factor, you need to assume those factor are both exist and non-exist at the same time, derived by Schrödinger's cat experiment.

Schrödinger's cat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

which in essence, until you examine the "unknown" factor, the cat "the factor as refer to in the experiment" are both dead and alive at the same time.

You are confused the term if I cannot prove otherwise, that does not mean your claim is automatically correct. Reason behind this is, I could be lazy, I don't want to talk to every inventor and see if they have a low IQ. Or I may have restriction regarding talking to all scientist. There are many reason why I cannot show proof/

so, I cannot show you proof that there exist only proof my claim cannot be supported. That does not mean your claim is valid.

so,

I will explain the methodology list all the major peer-reviewed literature to make a point, AND disprove ALL the criticism

simply is illogical. Because the "ALL" part has not fulfil. ie.

Even if you found all major peer-reviewed literature, does that mean there are no "OTHER" literature claim otherwise?? The answer is no.

However, if you say I know for a fact that not all birds a blue in the beginning, then you are forcing the argument, you are not arguing the argument. That's the Chinese Logic I am talking about

If I have to choose between the word of reputed Austrian Physicist and the word coming from an unknown Chinese member, I would choose the word of Austrian Physicist any day.

About your genius claim, since you got a messed up logic, I don't think it's wise to argue with a mad man who only think he is right because he think he is right.

Thank you. Unless you have some solid point, I think we are done here.
 
.
The way these guys illogically argue most things, initially it was surprising that they do not see how often they contradict themselves, but now we are used to it. Utterly destroyed their own 'high Chinese IQ' belief.

lol.......anyone who studied logic would know there are nothing called "Automatic Counterclaim"

Every statement are irrelevant to other statement, every claim are independent or mutually exclusive, you cannot use one claim
to support the other or disprove the other.

Even my 11 years old niece knows that, I wonder why some Chinese member fail to notice that. And yet, they keep telling people their mind is superior than others.....

Actually scratch that, if the world would use Chinese logic, the world will simply be a simpler place.

You cannot show me UFO exist, so UFO does not exist
You cannot show me the world is round, so the world is flat
You cannot show me anything run faster than light, so the light must be fastest.
You cannot show me a better place to live, so China must be the best place to live.
You cannot show me how a child defeat a grown man, so a grown man must be stronger than a child.
You cannot show me how .......

lol this is actually quite simple ain't it??
 
.
Back
Top Bottom