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Can Saudi Arabia Create an Indigenous Defense Industry?

False-flagging trolls aside, here are more news showing the real intend of the government to change status quo for the better.

https://defence.pk/threads/steps-taken-to-support-saudi-arabia’s-defence-industry-efforts.469575/

https://defence.pk/threads/ksa-turkey-to-build-a-new-industrial-city-near-madina.470456/

https://defence.pk/threads/the-gulf...alization-in-saudi-arabia-and-the-uae.469252/

https://defence.pk/threads/presiden...ruction-this-plane-has-a-great-future.467921/

https://defence.pk/threads/saudi-ar...0-50-billion-renewable-energy-program.473109/

https://defence.pk/threads/rockwell...rate-on-avionics-opportunities-in-ksa.468150/

https://defence.pk/threads/sikorsky-to-explore-helicopter-production-in-saudi-arabia.467506/

https://defence.pk/threads/240-million-al-kharj-ksa-facility-to-produce-top-class-artillery.433641/

https://defence.pk/threads/vt-halter-marine-raytheon-zamil-group-form-joint-venture.467511/

https://defence.pk/threads/saudi-to-open-military-base-in-djibouti.466078/

https://defence.pk/threads/saudi-and-uae-driving-gcc-defence.466940/

All news (a small portion of it) in the past 3-4 months alone.

Combined with this

Oiling the wheels on a road to success
Pakinam Amer
Nature 532,

Published online
27 April 2016

With the benefit of a sustainable plan and the funds to back it, Saudi Arabia is aiming high.
Saudi Arabia's scientific development may be in its infancy, but the oil-rich Kingdom is making strides in terms of research investment and publication — with a clear ambition to one day join those in the highest echelons.

532S13a-i1.jpg

KAUST students embark on a new school year with a commencement ceremony. The relatively new university has quickly made an impact on the Nature Index.

In 2012, Saudi Arabia had a weighted fractional count (WFC) of 52.84 in the index, sitting behind Turkey, Iran, Mexico, Chile and South Africa. In four years it rose 86.8% to reach a WFC of 98.67, leapfrogging all these countries to compete with Chile and Argentina globally. Saudi Arabia ranks at number 31 in the world in terms of WFC — up from 39 in 2012.

The country has risen even higher in specific subject areas. In chemistry, for example, it has surpassed countries with a strong scientific impact like Finland and Ireland, with its WFC rising to 66.54, achieving almost a three-fold increase from its position in 2012.

Institutionally, the country's leading science hub King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST) made an impressive leap in its WFC between 2012 and 2015, carving a place for itself to compete with American and European research powerhouses.


In just four years, its WFC has risen to become higher than those of prestigious institutions including the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN), Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL), the University of Georgia, United States, and Dresden University of Technology, Germany, to name a few. The output of all of these institutions dwarfed KAUST's in 2012, but KAUST's impressive trajectory since then has seen its WFC shoot to 72 in 2015, overtaking these heavy-hitters.

The country's science development ambitions have been backed by action. Since 2008, the country has embarked on a multi-tiered strategy that will see the Kingdom overhaul its science infrastructure, build high-spec labs, secure grants for research in priority areas in applied science, and link science to industries that drive the economy.

The strategy, broken into four stages to be implemented by 2030, aims to eventually “see Saudi Arabia become a leader in Asia and give it an economic power based on science,” says Abdulaziz Al-Swailem, vice president of scientific research support at King Abdulaziz City for Science and Technology (KACST).

532S13a-i2.jpg

The Saudi Human Genome Project will sequence 100,000 human genomes to conduct biomedical research in the Saudi population.

Saudi Arabia's march to the top
Saudi Arabia's efforts to boost its scientific research have been paying off, with its output in the Nature Index (WFC) rising steadily over the years. The two graphs below highlight Saudi Arabia's rise compared to other nations, both overall and for chemistry.

Overall output
In 2012 Saudi Arabia's overall output in the index was below all the countries shown, but continuous efforts have seen the Kingdom's WFC rise to overtake them all in 2015.




Chemistry
More marked than its overall rise, Saudi Arabia has made great strides in chemistry. After accelerated growth, which saw the Kingdom's chemistry WFC triple since 2012, it has outshone many larger players in the field in 2015.




The Kingdom's science investments focus on applied research that feeds directly into the country's industrial interests, particularly the oil and energy sector. But even in its strong subjects, chemistry and the physical sciences, Saudi Arabia's WFC remains modest compared to big players in Asia like China, Japan and South Korea.


To truly swim comfortably with these bigger fish, Saudi Arabia may benefit from looking at successful emerging economies in Asia.

One inspiration could be India. In addition to multi-disciplinary scientific and technical advancements that have improved its output in the index from 736.5 to 901.4 in the past four years, the subcontinental giant has joined the exclusive club of countries that have launched successful space missions.

Like Saudi Arabia, India's leading research institutes focus on chemistry, and their total output currently outstrips their Saudi Arabian counterparts by almost a factor of seven (the latter surpassing 472 in 2015, while the former is 66.5).

India's prowess in chemistry is something that Saudi Arabia can aspire to, considering that working conditions for researchers in the Kingdom are more conducive.

India's science ecosystem is far from perfect. Research funding cannot keep up with inflation and a general slowdown in the country's economy. In addition, commentators from the research community say the funding processes are lengthy, bureaucratic, and provide little feedback when applications for grants are turned down. Meanwhile, Saudi Arabia's healthy stream of oil revenue provides assured funding for the country's state-of-the-art research facilities.

While India has slightly increased spending and dedicated US$1.19 billion for the next fiscal year (2016–2017) for science, it has around 700 universities and 200,000 full-time researchers drawing on the same funding pot. By contrast, Saudi Arabia has pledged an education and training budget of US$50.9 billion for next year, which includes higher education and scientific research. With a total population of just 30 million, it has a much lower number of full-time researchers competing for the available resources.

Another impressive trajectory that Saudi Arabia might look to emulate is that of Singapore, which has a smaller population as well and has managed to climb high in the index. Like the Kingdom, Singapore also has a focus on chemistry research, and it has put together a similar top-down national science strategy for research institutes across the country. Both countries have strong collaborations with top universities around the world and are welcoming of foreign researchers in their efforts to drive innovation.

Mansour Alghamdi, director of the general directorate of scientific awareness and publishing at KACST, is optimistic that Saudi Arabia can bridge the large gap that currently exists in the volume of scientific output between it and such countries as India and Singapore.

“The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has a clear plan to do so and it has the resources,” he says.


Future growth
An internationally rising star

This graph shows KAUST's rise compared to a selection of other institutions*.
*Institutions shown are those that were furthest above KAUST in 2012, have experienced overall growth in WFC by 2015 and have been overtaken by KAUST in 2015. For clarity, only 2012 and 2015 data points are shown.

532S13a-g3.jpg


In 2012, Saudi's ranking in research output, with a WFC of 52.8, meant it was comparable with countries like South Africa, Turkey and Iran, all hovering around the 60–70 mark. Its WFC stood way below countries like Mexico, Hungary, Chile, Greece and Argentina.

532S13a-i3.jpg

Saudi Arabian researchers benefit from cutting-edge labs and generous funding that has boosted the country's R&D.

Four years later, the country's research outlook is very different and it is surpassing countries like Argentina, Mexico and Hungary in the index, and levelling the playing field with Chile. Chemistry research led the country's rapid rise to surpass these countries, but its life sciences and physical sciences WFCs of 8.5 and 31.5 still lag behind.

However, the Kingdom's AC has been steadily growing in these two fields over the past four years, hinting at the ever-increasing significance of international collaborations. It seems that Saudi Arabian researchers are casting their nets ever wider and are participating in publishing more articles, to the detriment of the WFC accredited for these articles.


Though international collaboration has proved fruitful, Saudi Arabia must keep a focus on nurturing home-grown talent, says Nasser Al-Aqeeli, dean of research at King Fahd University of Petroleum & Minerals (KFUPM), based in Dhahran's 'techno valley' in the eastern region of the Kingdom. In the next five years, he says, the country will focus on a programme for national capacity building.

A good first step was the Saudi government's decision to create a large scholarship programme in 2005, arguably the largest in the world, which has seen more than 200,000 young Saudi Arabians studying abroad. This makes Saudi Arabian students in the United States the fourth largest bloc of expatriate students, following those of China, India and South Korea. The government hopes these students will come back and drive a scientific culture in the country.
Saudi Arabia is also looking to increase its applied research focus, which is an integral part of the current phase of its national science strategy, while securing good funding for basic research as well. Al-Aqeeli says that Saudi's journey involves what he termed a “self-correcting mechanism” where the country is having a slow start in high-impact research, but a more sustainable one. An eventual future move towards basic research might help Saudi Arabia's research capacity to mature.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v532/n7600_supp_ni/full/532S13a.html

a growing ambition and goals, one of the youngest populations, one of the most educated in the Muslim world (percentage of university degrees) with the one of the very highest literacy rates, some of the highest number of students at leading Western universities of all nationalities, sufficient money for investment, government willingness and you have a recipe for success at the end of the day.

The usual suspects can cry for all I care. This WILL happen.
 
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I am not interacting with false-flaggers but if you knew history (and not just history that is 50 years old) you would know that this is a false and baseless claim if history is our witness.

Anyway.

KSA has 4 universities in the top 500 according to the most recent (2016) Shanghai Ranking of the world's universities.
Two (King Abdulaziz University and King Saud University) which are number 111 and 112 respectively worldwide.
King Abdullah University of Science and Technology is number 224 while King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals is number 326.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2016.html

King Abdulaziz University (KAU) is ranked 6th worldwide in mathematics.

King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals is ranked 23 and King Saud University is ranked 113.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectMathematics2015.html

In chemistry King Abdulaziz University is ranked 36 worldwide. King Abdullah University of Science and Technology is number 57. King Saud University is ranked 163.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectChemistry2015.html

In computer science King Abdulaziz University is ranked as number 27. King Abdullah University of Science and Technology is number 55. King Saud University is ranked as number 165.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectCS2015.html

Physics is the subject that is in need of improvement. However no university in the top 200 (Shanghai ranking is only showing top 200 in all those 5 categories - the last one is business/economics which I do not include here) from the MENA can be found in the physics category. All universities in the top 200 are Western (vast majority) except a few dozen Japanese, South Korean, 6 Chinese, 1 Indian, 1 Brazilian, 1 Singaporean, 1 Mexican, 1 Indian and 2 Russian. Israel has 3 as well.

Likewise 19 of the 100 best universities in the Arab world, can be found in KSA.

Overall, in the Muslim world and MENA region, only Israel is doing better than KSA.

19 universities in KSA ranked among top 100

ARAB NEWS | Published — Saturday 18 June 2016


education-and-students.jpg


JEDDAH: Nineteen Saudi universities were ranked among the QS top 100 Arab Universities for the year 2015-2016.
The King Fahad University for Petroleum and Mineral Resources ranked first among Arab universities for the second year in a row, while American University in Beirut ranked second. King Saud University emerged third, King Abdulaziz University fourth and Um Al-Qura University ranked 18th.
QS is one of the most prestigious and famous institutions with respect to university classifications around the world, in addition to the Time Higher Education World University Ranking, and the Academic Ranking for World Universities.
This latest ranking comes after evaluation of 192 universities out of 270 in 21 countries. The ranking relies on a comprehensive evaluation and nine criteria, as well as opportunities and challenges facing regional and global universities, and excellence achieved.
The classification relies on criteria such as answers from academics around the world regarding the best universities for research in their fields, the ratio of faculty to students, publication of studies for members of the educational cadre and the quality of education, and the proportion of foreign students.
QS also looks at the university’s educational reputation and employment prospects for graduates, the university’s website, and the number of published studies and citations for such studies.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/941261/saudi-arabia

Not bad by any means however there is room for much improvement and it is very encouraging that large sums of money (over 10% of the state budget if I recall) is invested in education and that this field is a key area of improvement in the Saudi Vision 2030.

http://vision2030.gov.sa/en

For more information:

https://defence.pk/threads/oiling-t...s-in-saudi-arabia.428713/page-4#ixzz4WnuYg2L0

So now patents, ammunition, no Saudi Arabian involvement in the joint project with Antonov, lack of progress etc. has all been exposed as a lie.



Learn some real history, false flagger.
Do not compare your "science" with Turkey, it's insulting, people like that damm idiot won't care, as they are more Arab than Turkish.. but, for people like me it's irritating . And i know you don't like Turks, seen your previous comments.
 
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You are just not good at Science like us Turks. :)

I am not interacting with false-flaggers but if you knew history (and not just history that is 50 years old) you would know that this is a false and baseless claim if history is our witness. The Arab world was much ahead of Turkey and the Turkic world for millennia. For 95% of recorded history.

Look at the Golden Age of Islam for instance. Most scientists were Arabs and Persians. Turks however were very few in numbers.

You think that history began 100 years ago, lol?

Where was Turkey in terms of science just 50 years ago? Or 30 years ago? Worse than KSA today. Don't get ahead of yourself, false-flagger.

Anyway.

KSA has 4 universities in the top 500 according to the most recent (2016) Shanghai Ranking of the world's universities.
Two (King Abdulaziz University and King Saud University) which are number 111 and 112 respectively worldwide.
King Abdullah University of Science and Technology is number 224 while King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals is number 326.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2016.html

King Abdulaziz University (KAU) is ranked 6th worldwide in mathematics.

King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals is ranked 23 and King Saud University is ranked 113.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectMathematics2015.html

In chemistry King Abdulaziz University is ranked 36 worldwide. King Abdullah University of Science and Technology is number 57. King Saud University is ranked 163.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectChemistry2015.html

In computer science King Abdulaziz University is ranked as number 27. King Abdullah University of Science and Technology is number 55. King Saud University is ranked as number 165.

http://www.shanghairanking.com/SubjectCS2015.html

Physics is the subject that is in need of improvement. However no university in the top 200 (Shanghai ranking is only showing top 200 in all those 5 categories - the last one is business/economics which I do not include here) from the MENA can be found in the physics category. All universities in the top 200 are Western (vast majority) except a few dozen Japanese, South Korean, 6 Chinese, 1 Indian, 1 Brazilian, 1 Singaporean, 1 Mexican, 1 Indian and 2 Russian. Israel has 3 as well.

Likewise 19 of the 100 best universities in the Arab world, can be found in KSA.

Overall, in the Muslim world and MENA region, only Israel is doing better than KSA.

19 universities in KSA ranked among top 100

ARAB NEWS | Published — Saturday 18 June 2016


education-and-students.jpg


JEDDAH: Nineteen Saudi universities were ranked among the QS top 100 Arab Universities for the year 2015-2016.
The King Fahad University for Petroleum and Mineral Resources ranked first among Arab universities for the second year in a row, while American University in Beirut ranked second. King Saud University emerged third, King Abdulaziz University fourth and Um Al-Qura University ranked 18th.
QS is one of the most prestigious and famous institutions with respect to university classifications around the world, in addition to the Time Higher Education World University Ranking, and the Academic Ranking for World Universities.
This latest ranking comes after evaluation of 192 universities out of 270 in 21 countries. The ranking relies on a comprehensive evaluation and nine criteria, as well as opportunities and challenges facing regional and global universities, and excellence achieved.
The classification relies on criteria such as answers from academics around the world regarding the best universities for research in their fields, the ratio of faculty to students, publication of studies for members of the educational cadre and the quality of education, and the proportion of foreign students.
QS also looks at the university’s educational reputation and employment prospects for graduates, the university’s website, and the number of published studies and citations for such studies.

http://www.arabnews.com/node/941261/saudi-arabia

Not bad by any means however there is room for much improvement and it is very encouraging that large sums of money (over 10% of the state budget if I recall) is invested in education and that this field is a key area of improvement in the Saudi Vision 2030.

http://vision2030.gov.sa/en

For more information:

https://defence.pk/threads/oiling-t...s-in-saudi-arabia.428713/page-4#ixzz4WnuYg2L0

So now patents, ammunition, no Saudi Arabian involvement in the joint project with Antonov, lack of progress etc. has all been exposed as a lie.

You are just not good at Science like us Turks. :)

View attachment 371869

Arabs betrayed Turks, and killed innocent Turks for their British masters.
Today we have many of these bastard in Turkey still, waving the PKK flag.

We need a new Ataturk

Learn some real history, false flagger.

Do not compare your "science" with Turkey, it's insulting, people like that damm idiot won't care, as they are more Arab than Turkish.. but, for people like me it's irritating . And i know you don't like Turks, seen your previous comments.

False-flagging and now baseless lies. You are really pathetic. One should feel sorry for you in fact.:rofl:
 
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"Israeli/Jew" where are you hiding?

BTW can't you help me with some Hebrew translations? Would you be willing to do that or have I busted another false-flagger in a long list of desperate false-flaggers? What's the matter? Why are you ignoring this request? I have asked 3 times now.

Something smells. Fishy.:lol:

What is being said in this video below? I posted a very short-one this time around.


Busting false-flagger since 10.000 BC.

This forum is filled with false-flaggers. Unfortunately the administration doesn't seem to care much about it, despite it being against the forum rules.

I never even look at user flags anymore, I use the mobile version of the site which doesn't show flags.

People will reveal themselves by the national interests they serve. This is the essence of geopolitics.
 
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This forum is filled with false-flaggers. Unfortunately the administration doesn't seem to care much about it, despite it being against the forum rules.

I never even look at user flags anymore, I use the mobile version of the site which doesn't show flags.

People will reveal themselves by the national interests they serve. This is the essence of geopolitics.

It seems, without any disrespect, that the administration only cares about traffic and the degree of it. The quality of this "traffic" does not matter.


The Arab revolt was a good thing if not for British treachery. The Ottoman Empire had already fallen apart with Muslims in the Balkan (Albania etc.) getting their full independence as well as Turks fighting for their own inside modern-day Turkey. The Young Turks and others come to mind. It was basically a failed state that was falling apart everywhere. Your "Father of the Nation" (Ataturk) himself abolished the Ottoman Empire, removed the last Caliph and deposed his family.

Using that logic you stole the Caliphate that we Arabs had ruled for 1000 years in 1517, when we were at our worst.

Ganging up with foreigners too to accomplish this.

"Al-Mutawakkil III was deposed briefly in 1516 by his predecessor Al-Mustamsik, but was restored to the caliphate the following year. In 1517, Ottoman sultan Selim I had managed to defeat the Mamluk Sultanate, and made Egypt part of the Ottoman Empire. Al-Mutawakkil III was captured together with his family and transported to Constantinople. He formally surrendered the title of caliph as well as its outward emblems—the sword and mantle of Muhammad—to Ottoman sultan Selim I.[1] Ottoman rulers before him, beginning with Fatih Sultan Mehmed however, had already begun to claim caliphal authority."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Mutawakkil_III

This is "your" history, lol.
 
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It seems, without any disrespect, that the administration only cares about traffic and the degree of it. The quality of this "traffic" does not matter.

You should try using the mobile version of the site (if you make the window narrow enough it will switch to mobile view), and it becomes much more obvious which posters are supporting the national interests of which country.
 
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The Ottoman Empire had already fallen apart with Muslims in the Balkan (Albania etc.)

So you are glad you killed Turks and MUSLIMS??? lolllll

The Arab world was much ahead of Turkey and the Turkic world for millennia. For 95% of recorded history.

Yes, Arabs are better than Turks.

Look at the Golden Age of Islam for instance. Most scientists were Arabs and Persians. Turks however were very few in numbers.

Turks never had no scientists. Silly me.

Where was Turkey in terms of science just 50 years ago? Or 30 years ago? Worse than KSA today. Don't get ahead of yourself, false-flagger.

Saudi Arabia was always ahead of Turks .
Are you happy now?

KSA has 4 universities in the top 500 according to the most recent (2016) Shanghai Ranking of the world's universities.

This is wrong, all 500 are Arab universities .
 
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So you are glad you killed Turks and MUSLIMS??? lolllll

I am not an Islamist and I only look at Caliphates from an historical point of view. There are the Rashidun (Rightly Guided Caliphs) for a reason. Rest were more or less monarchs.

What exactly where the Ottomans doing themselves? How did they gain the Caliphate that the Arabs had ruled for 1000 years exactly? By handing out flowers? You don't think that they killed Muslims and non-Muslims alike to gain power?

Did you know that Ottomans used to kill their own brothers almost in every generation? Just as a competition to gain the Caliphate and become the Caliph.

This is from a Turkish source (Daily Sabah):

http://www.dailysabah.com/feature/2015/08/07/the-history-of-fratricide-in-the-ottoman-empire--part-1

I already showed you how the Ottomans stole the Caliphate forcefully and what they did with the last Abbasid Caliph in 1517.

So are you glad that non-Ottoman supporting Turks killed Turks and Muslims? Or Ottomans killing Muslims from Albania to Iraq?

Understand that by the time that the Arab Revolt occurred the Ottoman state was self-imploding and Muslims as well as non-Muslims were revolting all over the territory from Albania to within modern-day Turkey. The final nail in the coffin was done by Turks themselves. Abolishing the Caliphate, forcing the last Caliph to leave and banning the Ottomans from living in Turkey. It's only recently under Erdogan that the version of history has changed somewhat.

Besides Arabs were the biggest ethnic group in the Ottoman Empire and more Arabs fought for the Ottomans than the opposite.

I have nothing against the Ottomans but I don't blame some Arabs for supporting the Arab Revolt. It was a time of nation states. People wanted full independence the same way nationalist Turks wanted an independent Turkey. Besides the Ottomans had neglected much of the Arab world for centuries and mostly focused on Turkey proper and parts of the Balkans. That's a fact.

Ottomans had their good and bad times as with every Caliphate be they Rashidun (yes, even back then), Umayyad, Abbasid or Fatimid. So basically all of them. To believe or say otherwise is nonsense.

And no worshipping some dynasties unconditionally has nothing to do with Islam. I leave that to Shias who believe that only the direct descendants of Prophet Muhammad (saws) and his offspring can rule.
 
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Atilla- I dont know why you are involved in this. Every country can improve it just depends on their dedication. If Saudi Arabia dedicates themselves to this aim they can achieve it, but it takes a long time for any nation to develop an advanced defence industry. In our case one of the most important cases was the US embargo after 1974 invasion of cyprus and the embargo is when most of these defence companies arose.
 
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Did you know that Ottomans used to kill their own brothers almost in every generation? Just as a competition to gain the Caliphate and become the Caliph.

What are you on about you desert monkey?

What exactly where the Ottomans doing themselves? How did they gain the Caliphate that the Arabs had ruled for 1000 years exactly?

Arabs now are a shame to Muslim world. British cannot help stupid.
 
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I am not an Islamist and I only look at Caliphates from an historical point of view. There are the Rashidun (Rightly Guided Caliphs) for a reason. Rest were more or less monarchs.

What exactly where the Ottomans doing themselves? How did they gain the Caliphate that the Arabs had ruled for 1000 years exactly? By handing out flowers? You don't think that they killed Muslims and non-Muslims alike to gain power?

Did you know that Ottomans used to kill their own brothers almost in every generation? Just as a competition to gain the Caliphate and become the Caliph.

This is from a Turkish source (Daily Sabah):

http://www.dailysabah.com/feature/2015/08/07/the-history-of-fratricide-in-the-ottoman-empire--part-1

I already showed you how the Ottomans stole the Caliphate forcefully and what they did with the last Abbasid Caliph in 1517.

So are you glad that non-Ottoman supporting Turks killed Turks and Muslims? Or Ottomans killing Muslims from Albania to Iraq?

Understand that by the time that the Arab Revolt occurred the Ottoman state was self-imploding and Muslims as well as non-Muslims were revolting all over the territory from Albania to within modern-day Turkey. The final nail in the coffin was done by Turks themselves. Abolishing the Caliphate, forcing the last Caliph to leave and banning the Ottomans from living in Turkey. It's only recently under Erdogan that the version of history has changed somewhat.

Besides Arabs were the biggest ethnic group in the Ottoman Empire and more Arabs fought for the Ottomans than the opposite.

I have nothing against the Ottomans but I don't blame some Arabs for supporting the Arab Revolt. It was a time of nation states. People wanted full independence the same way nationalist Turks wanted an independent Turkey.

This is not the place but just to clear- Mamluks of Eygpt was a Turkish empire however Selim defeated them. Also if I was an Arab for example, I could say the revolt was good IF ONLY the British was telling the truth. Anyways thats a completely different topic.
 
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iran turkey and even pakistan malesya are much more edvenced than any arab country
 
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