Can Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI Counter J20

[Dash]

Dash , dude there is no one denying that F-22 or any other aircraft can't be shoot down , because everything that comes to fight has a probability to be shoot down no matter even its F-22 or even a 6th generation aircraft,
but there is a thin line b/w "can be" and "should be" and that thin lines decides the confidence you have in your machine , even mig-21 pilot may shoot down an F-22 by hook or crook but can you compare the confidence of both pilots before going to the war? also do you think that a mig-21 shooting down an F-22 can give an assurety signal to the rest of mig-21 pilots that they too can shoot down the F-22 with high probability, believe me they will be shaking and having chill in the back bone more in the cockpit then the opponent sitting in F-22.

I wil say if in a scenario a Mig21 shoots down F-22 then all F-22 is going down, coz if a 3rd Gen fighter has shot down a best 5th Gen plane then its no 5th Gen at all....I think all the Mig 21 pilots confidence is going go real high...But thats separate matter..

What I am saying is to invalidate the argument that Su 30 MKI in no circumstance can shoot down F22. There will be...

 

[ZEYA]

ni men de pengyou hen pu hao. wo shuo induhuaaa.zhidao la ma ..

 

[satishkumarcsc]

ni men de pengyou hen pu hao. wo shuo induhuaaa.zhidao la ma ..

Eh?

Can you please type it in english or atleast use a translator?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Eh?

Can you please type it in english or atleast use a translator?

let me try to translate this for you, basically...he meant that Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI Counter J20 possible ONLY if both are piloted by Chineses...simple as that.

 

[gambit]

Russian claims their SAM can down Stealth Aircraft... is it true ?

In late 2008, details emerged of a new multiband 3D radar system in development by NNIIRT, designated the Nebo M. The Nebo M is a radical departure from previous Russian designs.

The self-propelled Nebo M is a package of three discrete radars and a single processing and command van, all hosted on BZKT BAZ-6909-015 8 x 8 all terrain 24 tonne chassis, based on the same vehicle as the S-400 / SA-21 5P85TE2 TEL and the proposed wheeled SA-23 variant.

The Nebo M combines derivatives of three existing NNIIRT 3D radars, the VHF band Nebo SVU, the L-band Protivnik G and the S/X-band Gamma S1. While the NNIIRT slide (below) attributes the VHF component to the 55Zh6 Tall Rack, the actual antenna design is clearly based on the solid state Nebo SVU AESA design. The L-band component antenna has a reduced aperture size compared to the semi-trailer hosted 59N6E radar.

<snipped>

http://www.ausairpower.net/NNIIRT-Nebo-M-System-1S.png

The Nebo-M system is clearly designed to hunt the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The VHF-Band component of the system provides sector search and track functions, with the X-Band and L-Band components providing a fine track capability. By good placement of the radars relative to the threat axis, the L-Band and X-Band components illuminate the incoming target from angles where the target RCS is suboptimal. Attempts to jam the Nebo-M will be problematic, since all of these radars have a passive angle track capability against jammers, as a result of which usage of a jammer permits passive triangulation of the target using three angle track outputs. The RLM-S and RLM-D have better elevation tracking accuracy than the RLM-M, and therefore the Nebo M should be capable of producing high quality tracks suitable for midcourse guidance of modern SAMs and full trajectory guidance of legacy SAMs.

I have a problem with the highlighted and I do not care what Kopp and his crowd said.

First...The idea of using meters length freqs is not new. Lockheed know about the effects of meters length freqs on the F-117 but chose to focus on the centimetric and milimetric bands because they are the ones that can provide any reasonable target resolutions for any firing solutions. This fact is well known.

Second...The entire system depends on the ability of the meters length freqs to find the target before the centimetric and milimetric radars can turn their antennas to seek out the alleged target.

Third...Passive angle tracking is another phrasing for a bi-static radar solution and although a bi-static configuration is 'stealth' greatest threat, the bi-static configuration has serious structural requirements as well as serious data synchronization and signal integrity issues per bi-static triangle. This is also well known. Does the Nebo-M has any hard data link between each radar? For any bi-static configuration, signal integrity is best if the sync is in the pico-seconds range, even more important if the target was deliberately designed to be low radar observable.

Fourth...If the meters length freq is jammed or the transmitter destroyed by a 'beamrider' missile, then the centimetric and milimetric systems will lose those crucial bi-static triangles. Which lead the scenario back to the first problem.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

let me try to translate this for you, basically...he meant that Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI Counter J20 possible ONLY if both are piloted by Chineses...simple as that.

thanks...and I am sorry for putting you through the trouble of translating this stupid post...hope I hadn't asked.

 

[rissriva]

Dear All

I would like to know how Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI can Counter J20 with Modern BVR, as J20 is stealth.

Who can detect first Phalcon or SU30MKI.

If Phalcon detect J20 , how will it guide SAM or any other aircraft to shoot it down.
as it will be invisible to SAM or other aircraft radar... how it will guide the missile.

what would be the benefit of Anti radiation missile for this kind of mission.

How it will feed the details to shoot it down.

We have great researcher here can anyone give technical details and not flare up the Thread.

Please No Fighting just Imagination and your knowledge.

Well just by designing a fighter aircraft like a stealth one does not make one believe that it has all the technologies that makes a aircraft a true stealth. Till date we dont really know the stealth capabilities of J20, so till then SU 30 Mki is far better than any of the China's fighter aircraft.

Neway.. China is known to reverse engineer the products and make duplicate copies. But in reality you can reverse engineer the design, but not the material composition.

 

[palash_kol]

let me try to translate this for you, basically...he meant that Phalcon AWACS + SU 30MKI Counter J20 possible ONLY if both are piloted by Chineses...simple as that.

Jokes...ha???

 

[Jungibaaz]

Well just by designing a fighter aircraft like a stealth one does not make one believe that it has all the technologies that makes a aircraft a true stealth. Till date we dont really know the stealth capabilities of J20, so till then SU 30 Mki is far better than any of the China's fighter aircraft.

Neway.. China is known to reverse engineer the products and make duplicate copies. But in reality you can reverse engineer the design, but not the material composition.

In terms of airframe, J-20 is a good stealth design, as for other aspects such as avionics, we can only wait and see.

MKI better then any Chinese fighter? in terms of operational, maybe but consider J-15 and J-11B, as for the future, J-10B, J-20, J-16 will be a completely different story.

as for your last point... J-11 is reverse engineered, but that too only the first variants other variants become more and more Chinese. Take into account the fact that Chinese have many other fighter projects too.

 

[U.S Navy SEALs]

Haha---I've heard enough crap from SU30MKi fans - now comes another joke - SU30 can shot down 5th Generation Fighters!!

For a premium member i'd expect a more educated post, oh well, you can't expect it all to happen. It wouldn't matter what generation the plane is, we've seen from previous conflicts. Even in the Soviet-Afghan Invasion, one Pakistani F-16 was shot down by an MiG-23D, a late 3rd Generation airplane downed a fourth generation F-16. It all depends on the pilot, date-links, equipment, sensors, etc. Too many variables can be taken into account, Su-30MKI has most if not all. A Su-30 is a very, very capable platform. And along with the MKI standard brings it far more capable, along with the new upgrades taking place. Don't underestimate, please you would only foolish. I'm not saying that it's a guarantee kill for a Su-30 + AWACS to shoot a J-20, but it's very capable to do it. And don't make me even ramble on the capabilities of a Phalcon AWACS, and how capable it is compared to anything in your arsenal, perhaps even Chinas.

 

[rcrmj]

Well just by designing a fighter aircraft like a stealth one does not make one believe that it has all the technologies that makes a aircraft a true stealth. Till date we dont really know the stealth capabilities of J20, so till then SU 30 Mki is far better than any of the China's fighter aircraft.
Neway.. China is known to reverse engineer the products and make duplicate copies. But in reality you can reverse engineer the design, but not the material composition.

the high lighted part doesnt hold any ground but some Sukhios slogans only naive people would believe that``Su-30MKI is multi-role fighter which means it can do all a bit, but not best of them all```like F-22 is dedicated for air-dominance so there is no question of its supeirority in the air``so does Chinese J-10```

Since J-10 inducted in large number, there are countless drills between J-10s and Su-27SK, Su-30 and J-11 (early Su-30 modification)``and the result is rather diturbing to those units that equipted with Sukhio fighters.. the report submitted by those units pointed out that several problems Sukhio fighters have up against J-10s,
1. i cannot track J-10 as far as J-10 can track them
2. difficult to have a solid lock due to the small RCSs
3. J-10 has much superior electronic suits or dedicated electromic suits to deal with Sukhio fighters
4. in a dog fight J-10 simply out maneuver Sukhio fighters
5. even the top speed of Sukhios are faster than J-10, but due to the smaller and lighter size of J-10, which enables it accelerates much faster

so the situation is always they neither can out-run J-10s nor escaping the chasing.

this is the picture of 2 J-10s up against 6 Su-27

[/URL][/IMG]

and J-11B and J-15 is not reverse engineering of Su-27 families```they are totally different in terms of inside, mertials and electrics used on board``but identical airframe

 

[rcrmj]

but applying to the topic``yes equipt with AWACs, Su-30MKI (or actually any other 4th gen fighters with BVR capabilities) and efficient tactics they can counter J20 or any other 5th gen fighters``

but still the best way to deal with 5th gen fighter is with a 5th gen fighter

 

[amalakas]

the high lighted part doesnt hold any ground but some Sukhios slogans only naive people would believe that``Su-30MKI is multi-role fighter which means it can do all a bit, but not best of them all```like F-22 is dedicated for air-dominance so there is no question of its supeirority in the air``so does Chinese J-10```

Since J-10 inducted in large number, there are countless drills between J-10s and Su-27SK, Su-30 and J-11 (early Su-30 modification)``and the result is rather diturbing to those units that equipted with Sukhio fighters.. the report submitted by those units pointed out that several problems Sukhio fighters have up against J-10s,
1. i cannot track J-10 as far as J-10 can track them
2. difficult to have a solid lock due to the small RCSs
3. J-10 has much superior electronic suits or dedicated electromic suits to deal with Sukhio fighters
4. in a dog fight J-10 simply out maneuver Sukhio fighters
5. even the top speed of Sukhios are faster than J-10, but due to the smaller and lighter size of J-10, which enables it accelerates much faster

so the situation is always they neither can out-run J-10s nor escaping the chasing.

this is the picture of 2 J-10s up against 6 Su-27

[/URL][/IMG]

and J-11B and J-15 is not reverse engineering of Su-27 families```they are totally different in terms of inside, mertials and electrics used on board``but identical airframe

Radar .. radar, radar. this just shows the derivatives radars are ..bad.

out maneuver a Su-** .. right OK .. perhaps the pilots in the Su-** or J-** were good.

The J-10 is no more agile than an F-16 according to western estimations, and no better than it in terms of avionics. So defeat an Su-- sorry I don't buy it ..

 

[rcrmj]

Radar .. radar, radar. this just shows the derivatives radars are ..bad.

out maneuver a Su-** .. right OK .. perhaps the pilots in the Su-** or J-** were good.

The J-10 is no more agile than an F-16 according to western estimations, and no better than it in terms of avionics. So defeat an Su-- sorry I don't buy it ..

sorry if you have troubles of taking what had happed out there``and your groundless assumption is entirely based on 'according to western estimations'```per your 'western estimations' China wouldnt field a 5th gen fighter by 2020 the earliest`see what had happened?

and also i am very confused that every country treats the avionics as kind of state of secrecy and in what sense that you know J-10's avionics?

dont you forget few months ago that 2 J-10s locked on Vietnamese Su-30 few dozen times and VN pilot had no idea where were those J-10?
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/118638-vietnam-su-30-locked-j-10-10-times.html

 

[ptldM3]

the high lighted part doesnt hold any ground but some Sukhios slogans only naive people would believe that``Su-30MKI is multi-role fighter which means it can do all a bit, but not best of them all```like F-22 is dedicated for air-dominance so there is no question of its supeirority in the air``so does Chinese J-10```

Since J-10 inducted in large number, there are countless drills between J-10s and Su-27SK, Su-30 and J-11 (early Su-30 modification)``and the result is rather diturbing to those units that equipted with Sukhio fighters.. the report submitted by those units pointed out that several problems Sukhio fighters have up against J-10s,
1. i cannot track J-10 as far as J-10 can track them
2. difficult to have a solid lock due to the small RCSs
3. J-10 has much superior electronic suits or dedicated electromic suits to deal with Sukhio fighters
4. in a dog fight J-10 simply out maneuver Sukhio fighters
5. even the top speed of Sukhios are faster than J-10, but due to the smaller and lighter size of J-10, which enables it accelerates much faster

so the situation is always they neither can out-run J-10s nor escaping the chasing.

this is the picture of 2 J-10s up against 6 Su-27

[/URL][/IMG]

and J-11B and J-15 is not reverse engineering of Su-27 families```they are totally different in terms of inside, mertials and electrics used on board``but identical airframe

Right......and what do old Chinese SU-27SK's piloted by Chinese pilots have anything to do with the SU-30MKI? The SU-30MKI would absolutely spank the SU-27SK in maneuverability. Moreover, the two aircraft have completely different avionics suits, so again what is your point?

Close in dog fighting also has more to do with the pilot and less to do with the aircraft. This can be seen during the Israeli Arab wars, as well as exercises. For example Russian Air Force Mig-29's faced Mig-23's, as we all know the Mig-29 is superior in maneuverability to the Mig-23, in fact it is superior to maneuverability to just about any aircraft, the Mig-29's avionics were also far superior to that of the Mig-23 yet the improbable happened--the highly experienced Mig-23 pilots somehow, against all odds managed to achieve Mig-29 kills. It just shows what the right pilots can do.

Our pilots would be more than happy to show off the SU-27's true capability, we have done it against US Air Force F-15's and we would be happy to do it against your J-10.