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CAN PAKISTAN FIND AN ALTERNATIVE TO AMERICA?

I never said to replace America (It can't be replaced). In terms of Pakistan's economy, the US is that one single country, if they allow investments into Pakistan, Pakistan would become the next France or Dubai, etc, etc. Take a look at India and what they have turned India into. 20% of investments compared to India, will take Pakistan beyond where India is, in terms of advancing and providing a better quality of living to the Pakistanis. That's because India is 5 times larger in population and area so it needs that much more $$$$ to build out.

In terms of the military, I believe Pakistan has the money now to shell out a couple of billions quickly to buy the J-10C's or the J-10D's or some EFT's to supplement the F-16 and stop buying that from the US. Your defense procurement should know better, you can't keep a jet as your tier 1 fighter when every month you get concerned as to if you'll even get spares. Pakistan made a huge mistake in 1990's and after 2003 by saying no to Mirake 2K's and the Rafales!!

I believe that if the PAF gets away from the F-16, and makes something else their tier 1 plane (more reliable from a purchase and spares issues), this point of contention would be removed from the US and Pakistani relations. And I believe, both sides will work better together on trade and business.

Remember, the US wants to provide India with advance F-16's which will be built in India and in whole sale numbers to replace hundreds of aging Mig-21's, Mig-23's, etc, etc. So the one's you have, may be the last one's ever sold to Pakistan. Its about time you guys realize your pull with the US vs. India's.

@MastanKhan : here we go again on the same topic. I am sure you'd like to chime in. Bad planning and decisions of the 90's and the 2000's are still haunting Pakistan, specially the PAF.


Welcome back sir.
 
Welcome back sir.


Thank you :tup:

However I'm intrigued and interested in knowing more about the how China manage to steal JSF tech? since as per my knowledge they were not involved in it.

Separate topic all together. We'll go off topic on that like crazy. If you want to debate it, open up a new thread. Better yet, do some research on Google and you should find plenty of credible sources. The FBI had arrested many people here who passed along certain credentials to the Chinese and made stuff easier for them as per the media. Many defense contractors (mainly from the Chinese origin) were captured and put through courts for helping with these things.
 
Pakistan had an alternative ever since the sino-indian border skirmish in 1962 but leaders like Ayub Khan couldn't see it.

We have already crossed a milestone by turning Sino-Pak friendship into a strategic partnership while our relation with US is based on selfish interests by both which would continue. Nothing wrong
 
There is elite class of journalist, lawmakers, military brass, businessman and NGO etc. signed up for serving US interest. This fact is true in Pakistan (more so), in india, in Bangladesh and elsewhere. Most important task is to neutralize power projected by this class before any country can get freedom from US clutch. One such example of cleansing elites serving US interest is Turkey.

Money from US dried up long time ago as US itself struggling to save itself. So no country (except Israel) dependent on US money. US or US companies which are more focused on hi tech, high value and service sector oriented industries. Stage Pakistan economy and industries are in today, there is no significant investment from US can be expected or make sense. Pakistan rather would benefit investment from China, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Russia and perhaps gulf etc.

For trade, unless Pakistan receive any preferential trade facility (which is not the case) and paying full import tax there is not much to fear. Alternatively if Pakistan can proactively explore different market and risk can be balanced out.

In defense, US dependence getting smaller and smaller.

But if one analyze carefully, it is sound bite and noise created by US serving elite class and media (both in Pakistan and US) that makes US importance bigger than it is. When in fact US needs more from Pakistan today than Pakistan does from US.
 
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Pakistan's military is too dollarised to see an alternative. No doubt, the military will be poodling around for a few more decades.
 
But if one analyze carefully, it is sound bite and noise created by US serving elite class and media (both in Pakistan and US) that makes US importance bigger than it is. When in fact US needs more from Pakistan today than Pakistan does from US.

How does US need Pakistan more? What does this even mean? Please explain. Recent events seems bely this.

Pakistan's military is too dollarised to see an alternative. No doubt, the military will be poodling around for a few more decades.

Even all that has transpired, Pakistan is still seeking used F-16s.

Even if Pakistan does not acquire a single piece of American military equipment, it will beholden to US for the military equipment it does operate.
 
There are two components to "replacing America": Military and Trade.

Military: Yes, you can replace the US (in fact anyone can if they so wish to buy weapons from someone else). At this point, Pakistan is only really using F-16's and associated missiles / armament. So it can replace that overtime with the Chinese J-10C and D models, which are essentially on par with the Rafale and -16 block-60 (at-least on paper). In fact, relationships going south again between the US and Pakistan, the forgotten / ignored / rejected J-10C or D might become a reality. The confidential J-10 D is supposed to have miniaturized version of avionics and tech from the J-31 (which then has stolen JSF tech). So theoretically, the J-10D should be more advanced even compared to the Rafale and -16 block-60!!

Trade and Economy: This is where Pakistan REALLY needs the US and can use the US's help. Pakistan needs to find a way to still work with the US in this regard. Just 10 US multinational companies can afford to pour in $ 10 billion worth of investments each, for example. That's $ 100 billion and can literally change the entire landscape of Pakistan after the Chinese investments complete building what they are supposed to. Pakistan would become a new South Korea, especially with such a massive population that can be employed overseas or on jobs inside Pakistan.

So the Pakistani government should still work with the US on growing economy and trade. I think Pakistanis need to learn from India and others on how to get benefits out of someone by working together. F-16's should be totally forgotten and never asked for. There needs to be some integrity there from the Pakistani side. But the US would work on equal basis with Pakistan on economy as the US businesses will rake in serious profits and their initial investments will help Pakistan too. No need for military purchasing as it seems to disappoint and cause issues between bilateral relationships.
USA dont to business with Pakistan but China do...
USA will pay for doing his service but China will sell you goods...
One side you get money other side is pure business....
so Pakistan can not afford to lose USA

Pakistan always had an alternative.
It was Pakistan itself.
you are right ....but will you chose that option
 
There are two components to "replacing America": Military and Trade.

Military: Yes, you can replace the US (in fact anyone can if they so wish to buy weapons from someone else). At this point, Pakistan is only really using F-16's and associated missiles / armament. So it can replace that overtime with the Chinese J-10C and D models, which are essentially on par with the Rafale and -16 block-60 (at-least on paper). In fact, relationships going south again between the US and Pakistan, the forgotten / ignored / rejected J-10C or D might become a reality. The confidential J-10 D is supposed to have miniaturized version of avionics and tech from the J-31 (which then has stolen JSF tech). So theoretically, the J-10D should be more advanced even compared to the Rafale and -16 block-60!!

Trade and Economy: This is where Pakistan REALLY needs the US and can use the US's help. Pakistan needs to find a way to still work with the US in this regard. Just 10 US multinational companies can afford to pour in $ 10 billion worth of investments each, for example. That's $ 100 billion and can literally change the entire landscape of Pakistan after the Chinese investments complete building what they are supposed to. Pakistan would become a new South Korea, especially with such a massive population that can be employed overseas or on jobs inside Pakistan.

So the Pakistani government should still work with the US on growing economy and trade. I think Pakistanis need to learn from India and others on how to get benefits out of someone by working together. F-16's should be totally forgotten and never asked for. There needs to be some integrity there from the Pakistani side. But the US would work on equal basis with Pakistan on economy as the US businesses will rake in serious profits and their initial investments will help Pakistan too. No need for military purchasing as it seems to disappoint and cause issues between bilateral relationships.

US will not want to turn Pakistan into another South Korea as that would not serve US interests.

A Muslim country of 200 million that is on the whole anti-US/West, has nuclear weapons and multi-trillion dollar economy - how does this benefit US geopolitically?
 
Can Pakistan find an alternative to America?

Washington’s decision to withhold $300 million in Coalition Support Funds (CSF) to Pakistan (on account of its apparent unwillingness to neutralize the so-called ‘Haqqani Network’) will require Pakistan to review its approach for securing advanced armaments. Traditionally, access to U.S. aid and armaments has served as a means for Pakistan to procure technologically advanced weaponry, especially during the Cold War.

The F-16 is perhaps the most identifiable example of this fact. The F-16 served as the Pakistan Air Force (PAF)’s qualitative spear tip since its induction in the 1980s. However, the PAF is not the only service arm to be dependent on American arms in this manner. The mainstay of the Pakistan Navy’s maritime patrol aircraft (MPA) fleet is comprised of Lockheed Martin P-3C Orion aircraft. The Army’s dedicated attack helicopter fleet is centered on the AH-1F/S Cobra, and it secured a purchase of 15 Bell AH-1Z Vipers.

While workhorse units are generally of Chinese origin, the Pakistani military has still sought Western armaments as a means to maintain and build its qualitative capabilities. For example, it was the F-16s – via the Block-52+ and Mid-Life Update (MLU) – that introduced modern precision-strike, advanced tactical data-link connectivity and beyond visual range (BVR) air-to-air capabilities to the PAF fighter fleet.

In light of Pakistan’s systemic economic troubles, U.S. assistance has been a central component in helping the Pakistani armed forces acquire modern weaponry, i.e. modern American weaponry. With the stop on CSF and therefusal to provide Foreign Military Financing (FMF) support for a proposed sale of eight F-16C/D Block-52+, Pakistan should consider this avenue shut.

Granted, one might argue that if Pakistan had possessed a strong economy, it would be able to buy American arms. However, this belies the reality of how Washington generally pursues its long-term security interests, especially in the Middle East and Asia. If there was a desire to see a country such as Pakistan strengthened militarily, then a weak economy would not stop it from becoming stronger. As with many countries, such as Egypt and even Pakistan of past decades, military aid would have been used. At the minimum, one should readily conclude that the U.S. has no active interest in seeing a militarily strong Pakistan (otherwise, it would have propped one up, as it had in earlier decades).

Moreover, it is Pakistan’s structural economic problems that (only in part) predispose it to look favourably towards the U.S., and pursue the U.S. as an avenue to help it meet its defence needs in relation to India. In the absence of that aid, and left to its own inherent economic capabilities and foreign relations ‘muscle’, Pakistan’s ability to offset its dependence on U.S. arms – especially in the qualitative or high-tech area – is severely limited. While Western Europe is not as committed to binding arms transfers to its overseas security interests as the U.S., the likes of France and Britain will still require payment for their $250 million a unit Dassault Rafales and Eurofighter Typhoons, respectively. Russia, which is in a precarious economic situation, simply requires hard cash, and in Pakistan’s case, it also needs assurances that sales lost to India could be secured through Pakistan. Realistically, it is apparent that Pakistan cannot cater to either source.

This leaves Pakistan with a limited set of options. First, there is China, which views Pakistan as strategically valuable on two main fronts: long-term economic progress and offsetting India. As long as the U.S. seeks to contain China, and India gradually creeps into Washington’s sphere of interests, then Beijing will have an interest in positioning Pakistan as a counterweight to India (so as to relieve pressure).

As demonstrated with a recent purchase for eight air-independent propulsion (AIP) powered submarines, Beijing is willing to offer Pakistan flexible support mechanisms – e.g. financing options – as a means to fulfill its defence needs. In addition, Pakistan can benefit from the vast scale generated by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA)’s need for advanced arms. In many cases, such as in the area of conventional submarines, development funding is assured and extensively distributed (across a large number of PLA units), thereby making ventures with the Chinese comparatively less costly and less risky. It is likely that a large number of Pakistan’s future defence requirements will draw from the Chinese industry.

The second option would be intermediary sources of Western technology, such as Turkey. Utilizing its networks with NATO and the Western defence industry, Turkey has developed a series of NATO-compliant solutions, such as the Aselsan ASELPOD advanced targeting pod (which is poised to be used from the JF-17 Thunder). Of course, Turkey’s ability to provide financing support (like China or the U.S.) is severely limited, if not non-existent at this time. Pakistan would need to pay in hard cash. Furthermore, not every component of Turkey’s offerings will be readily available for export. For example, while the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) T-129 seems to have drawn interest from the Pakistan Army, TAI will still need to acquire third-party approval to export the T-129’s turboshaft engine, which is of Anglo-American origin.

In either scenario, Pakistan’s ability to procure effective qualitative solutions – especially in emerging areas – is limited. If not out of vendor sensitivities, then Pakistan’s own inherent (read: financial) limitations. The Pakistani military will need to reposition the domestic industry as not only its principle resource for cost savings, but technology parity as well. This is not to suggest that the domestic base will be able to cater for every aspect of the armed forces’ qualitative needs, but Pakistan cannot afford to maintain its existing position, i.e. the fact that it can only import the entirety – or even the majority – of its high-tech defence needs from the U.S. Kamra Aviation City and the PAF’s intentions behind its next-generation fighter program may be concrete steps towards this route.
Source: http://quwa.org/2016/08/06/this-week-in-review-can-pakistan-find-an-alternative-to-america/
China is best ally of Pakistan either it's abt economical or its abt arms
Stable and economical pak can buy and market anything to anyone
Pak is cuffed just because of financial condition
If the politicians give good 10 years pak will be on top ranking economies
 

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