Can Pakistan Be Secular?

[KS]

I would like to see everyone responsible behind the bars...however there is no way we can establish Congress High Command had asked Sajjan Kumar to carry on the carnage...and by the way if i go by your logic then Modi is very much involved because people like Babu Bajrangi were just paws...It would be naive to think Modi was not involved....

Nd now going by ur reverse logic shouldnt u be punishing and loathing Babu Bajrangi instead of bringing in the name of BJP and Modi..?

Who are we???....I told you last time as well please speak for yourself...Have you done some analysis, some survey yourself???...

I work in an MNC in Mumbai and three of my project mates are Muslims from Gujarat(1 from Ahmedabad,2 from Rajkot).They r ready to move on..but the media and Human rights activits - no-.

No not really...Killing of IG by Sikhs was considered as a challenge to Hindu's by Sikhs...Godhra Incident was considerd attack on Hindu's by muslims...(Speaking from rioter's POV)

For sikhs killing IG was a revenge of Operation Blue Start...For muslims Godhra was revenge of Babri demolition against Kar sewaks...

Absolutely wrong!!!..The killing of IG by Sikhs was not taken as a challenge to Hindus by Sikhs..but rather as a challenge to the Congress by Sikhs..Dont twist it here.
Whereas the killing of Hindus by Muslims in Godhra was taken as a challlenge to Hindus by Muslims and in an excited state rightly so.
The 2 analogies are way off the mark

 

[asq]

I keep on comming up with damning reports after report about the facts of godhra and gujrat.

Indians on this forum keep on with their version which is just that, their version and has nothing to do with truth and facts, Read on and be enlighted for the last time.

http://www.pluralindia.com/book/Illustrated_prmier/Chapter_3.pdf

 

[asq]

Are you selective in your accepting and rejecting sources??? GOI would be far more a suspect to give false information and has been rebuked by many Pak members including you many times..

are we talking about general or somthting spcific. Yes we accept or reject reports based on their marits and also do look at how it was compiled meaning the sequence of events as they happened, does it make sense etc etc.

A paper callling itself Hindu is for a reason and that is obvious.

Totally off topic so will let it go..b/w the feeling is mutual...

Feeling is what ever u make it, we donot feel the way you do, we have no enmity toward India or its people, just those who confuse the matters and refuse the truth, your deduction are mostly based on toungue and cheek and therefore have no value.

 

[KS]

I keep on comming up with damning reports after report about the facts of godhra and gujrat.

Indians on this forum keep on with their version which is just that, their version and has nothing to do with truth and facts, Read on and be enlighted for the last time.

http://www.pluralindia.com/book/Illustrated_prmier/Chapter_3.pdf

Ohh why am i not surprised...
Duh got it...its from Communalism Combat,run by Teesta Setalvad one of the prime time hindu-bashing,pseudo-secular b**** in India.

So my Friend..this link has much less value than dogpoop

 

[asq]

So my Friend..this link has much less value than dogpoop

Any reasons why?

 

[KS]

Any reasons why?

I ve given the reasons in my post itself buddy.

Wuld u accept any links abt Islam from the danish Cartoonist..?

This is a similar thing

a paper callling itsel Hindu is for a reason and that is obvious.

Everything is not black and white my friend.
Believe me wen i say this paper calling itself the Hindu is one of the most Commi-leaning,pseudo-secular-to-some-extent newspaper in India.

 

[asq]

Everything is not black and white my friend.
Believe me wen i say this paper calling itself the Hindu is one of the most Commi-leaning,pseudo-secular-to-some-extent newspaper in India.

I said it before and will say it again, it is not the massanger but the massage which tells me by its facts put together in a nutshell. Friend

so donot go bashing the massanger, look at the massage.

the massage is that modi was a pivital force in roits against Muslims in Gujrat, and he had to plan a stretegy to start those riots and by having Hindu pilgrims killed, his plan worked exectly the way he planned it.

CUPISH.

 

[KS]

I said it before and will say it again, it is not the massanger but the massage which tells me by its facts put together in a nutshell. Friend

so donot go bashing the massanger, look at the massage.

No the credibility of the message depends on the messenger..
Just like u ppl mock at TOI or we ppl mock at Rupee news....
Thts wat i said...will u believe wat Islam is as said by the Danish cartoonist or wat Jewism is as said by Osama Bin Laden..?

the massage is that modi was a pivital force in roits against Muslims in Gujrat, and he had to plan a stretegy to start those riots and by having Hindu pilgrims killed, his plan worked exectly the way he planned it.

See i can only tell u the truth...But if u want to believe in conspiracy theories-btw u Pakistanis are gr8 at it- and keep blaming all ur faullts on others without a bit of self-introspection ur welcome.
Nobody except u is gonna be hurt in the long run.

 

[deckingraj]

Nd now going by ur reverse logic shouldnt u be punishing and loathing Babu Bajrangi instead of bringing in the name of BJP and Modi..?

You are right in reversing the question...Haven't the officials who are investigating done the same(i.e. going after people like bajrangi)??? However it was Babu Bajrangi who himself named Modi and that too on a hidden camera...Anyways Modi is a suspect and his role should throughly be investigated...This is all what i am asking because as per Law every one is innocent till proven guilty......As per my inner conscious i know likes of Modi, Tytler, Sajjan Kumar, IG, Rajiv Gandhi etc are all the same...

I work in an MNC in Mumbai and three of my project mates are Muslims from Gujarat(1 from Ahmedabad,2 from Rajkot).They r ready to move on..but the media and Human rights activits - no-.

And i have utmost respect for it...However i am just challenging your part where you seems to talk like a person representing Gujrat.. B/w people should move on but culprits should be punished...This is all i am saying....

Absolutely wrong!!!..The killing of IG by Sikhs was not taken as a challenge to Hindus by Sikhs..but rather as a challenge to the Congress by Sikhs..Dont twist it here.
Whereas the killing of Hindus by Muslims in Godhra was taken as a challlenge to Hindus by Muslims and in an excited state rightly so.
The 2 analogies are way off the mark

There you are wrong.. I am not twisting facts...if it was congress in delhi and it was BJP in gujrat...Had it been Muslims vs Hindus we would have seen riots in other parts of the country as well...In fact we can say it true to some extent in case of 84 because riots were not only central to delhi(Kanpur was another place) whereas Gujrat riots were limited to Gujrat only...so no way it could be Muslims vs Hindu's...

The analogy about challenge to Hindus by Sikhs or Muslims was just drawn to tell you the excuses that rioters use to cause the damage... Political leaders use this wave of sentiments and portray them as saviour of religion to get votes...Mind it i have said repeatedly it was never Hindu's, Muslims or Sikhs...It was only rioters backed by political class...I just draw an analogy to draw my point...

 

[deckingraj]

are we talking about general or somthting spcific. Yes we accept ot reject reports baased on their marits and also do look at where it is from.

The only sad part is in the definition of merit...pro-Pak/anti-india is credible and pro-india/anti-pak has no respect...Otherise how can source like TOI become credible which is otherwise rejected??? I hope i am clear this time...

a paper callling itsel Hindu is for a reason and that is obvious.

Then stop talking about sources since you have no information on how credible this newspaper is...Name "The Hindu" doesn't mean paper is Anti-Muslim or other religions...

Feeling is what ever u make it, we donot feel the way you do, we have no enmity toward Indiaor its people, just those who confuse the matters and refuse the truth, your deduction are mostly based on toungue and cheek and thereforehave no value.

Are you high on drugs??This is what you wrote

Most of the Indian meida is baised against pakistan as they contnueto dump on Pakistan about Bombay even though pakistan has said many tomes that firstly it must be investigatedif hewas Pakistan than they accepted than Hafiz saeed will be tried if evidance isprovided which was not that is why he was let go.So my friend deckingraj Pakistan is trying but when there is no cooperation from accros the border, wbhat can Pakistan do.

The way you think India Media is biased against Pakistan the same way i think Pakistan media is biased against India...The way you think Pakistan is trying but there is no co-opreation from across the border the same way i think India is trying but there is no co-operation from other side...

this is what i mean by Feeling is mutual...Am i clear???

B/w bringing mumbai into this discussion if off topic...don't you think so?? we are talking Gujrat because this was one of the examples given by pakistani members about India's secularism in parallel to Pakistan's...That let the gene out of the bottle and Karthic and I are locking horns on this since then...So keep another gene intact...

 

[deckingraj]

Any reasons why?

this is why...

Gujarat riots: SIT says Teesta's charges false - India - ibnlive
NGOs, Teesta spiced up Gujarat riot incidents: SIT - India - The Times of India
The Pioneer > Online Edition : >> Gujarat turns heat on Teesta
Gujarat Riots: SIT slams Teesta Setalvad | NewsX
Shadow Warrior: Enough evidence against Teesta Setalvad- not Modi
Probe Teesta's political agenda through riot cases: Gujarat tells SC - India - The Times of India

P.S : Mind it i am totally bought in that Narendra Modi was directly/indirectly involved in Gujrat Riots however Teesta went out of the way to get culprits punished...Now this is to cap loop holes in Judicial System or her pseudo secularism i am not sure..

 

[indian_muslim]

The future of pakistan is a secular democracy.

I have many pakistani friends who are devout muslims, they all agree that pakistan should take religion out of the public sphere.

Anyway the nation state is incompatible with islam.

Under islam citizenship is granted based on religion, and the ummah must hold together in one "muslim" land.

Therefore there would be no pakistan, afghanistan, saudi arabia or morocco. There would be one khilafah, and one nationality based on religion.

If there is to a pakistan, let us not kid ourselves, it should not parade itself around as an "islamic" country, especially since the country runs on riba

 

[indian_muslim]

Narendra Modi should be hung for his crimes!!

Gujuratis are bhangis!

Actually that is a major insult to bhangis, they are the lowest form of life on the earth for re-electing Modi!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The future of pakistan is a secular democracy.

I have many pakistani friends who are devout muslims, they all agree that pakistan should take religion out of the public sphere.

Anyway the nation state is incompatible with islam.

Under islam citizenship is granted based on religion, and the ummah must hold together in one "muslim" land.

Therefore there would be no pakistan, afghanistan, saudi arabia or morocco. There would be one khilafah, and one nationality based on religion.

If there is to a pakistan, let us not kid ourselves, it should not parade itself around as an "islamic" country, especially since the country runs on riba

while i agree with SOME of your points, I don't think Pakistanis need hindustany to analyze our country's political makeup. Worry about your own country and its problems. We don't need outsider's advice.


thanks.

 

[T-Faz]

Come to Karachi in my neighbourhood and you will sEe a true secular part of the country. We have Hindus, Muslims, atheists, Christians, Sikhs and many others living happily together and there has never been any racial or ethnic problem.

One reason is at the area is of financially secure well to do people, if people are financially secure, they tend not to come under the curse of extremism.

I really like the communal relations and that fun we have there. I remember celebrating all kinds of festivals at my catholic school and appreciating everyone and everything.

Hope things remain as they are for a long time. I really appreciate our minority communities and their contributions, they make us what we are.