Can Muslims sing "Vande_Mataram"?

[Vinod2070]

Kingship itself is un-Islamic . Food for thought.

Food for thought?

Why was kingship the norm in all Islamic societies in that case? Did they never follow Islam at all?

 

[Vinod2070]

I do see your point but the wounds of partition have pretty much healed up (except in Kashmir) and Muslims living under the auspices of Indian government should have made a decision by now...

"Hmm do I want to keep singing this song or flee to Pakistan?"

The choice is apparent, presently speaking.

There is no enforcing anywhere to sing this song.

Most people in India have never sung this song, even though I think it is a lovely song.

 

[Devianz]

Not out of freewill, it was more of a threat - are you a King ordering the Muslims to bow down?

More importantly I'm pretty sure no one bowed to the Prophet nor the original 4 Khalifa's. I repeat this is basic, not a strict version of Islam.

Strict version of Islam states that you shouldn't even stand up in respect for people of high status, you can stand up if you truly respect them for their deeds. Lots of nitty gritty there, but the fact that we don't bow to anyone but Allah, that's basic.

Isn't that the important point. No one is forcing anyone to sing vande mataram. It's not even made compulsory in schools. I don't remember singing it even once during my school days despite studying in one of the main Indian Govt school chains.

 

[EjazR]

Ejaz,

Untill unless thier is a FORM/BODY/STATUE is associated with word 'Maan', here in this translation, it will remain Un-ISLAMIC!

Arif Mohammad Khan is no SCHOLAR of Sanskrit, by any yardstick. His political views were always questioned by muslims many time before. His political career is still what is best summed up by urdu phrase 'THALI KA BAIGAN' in Indian political circus. His (mis)-adventures with Vande-Matram is nothing more than failed political f*rt, to be polite with him! Word 'Vande', till date, remain associated with Hindu diety. Respecting it as a religious symbol is one thing and PRACTICING it in the name of respect is quite different. Indian Muslims, or for that matter any muslim worldover, will always oppose to bow to other than ALLAH.

That is why I said if it is confirmed as authentic translation from Urdu and Sanskit scholars then I have no problem with it.

 

[Awesome]

I am not a king or anything. I am not asking anyone to bow down.

Just asking a basic question since bowing seems to be such a big issue here.

Why did Islamic kings enforce something so anti-Islamic?

Fundamentally (although that word has a bad rep), Islam teaches that God can forgive all sins, but not the sin of association of divinity (what my friend from Bangladesh mentioned as "Shirk"). It is the reason Muslims don't recreate the picture of the Prophet or any other important Islamic figure. That is why Muslims stress on the vahid (one), the single-ness of God - no trinity, no equal, no one even measurably close.

Absolute care is given to not even accidentally promote any such association. "Bowing" is so basic, its a flat out no.

 

[Al-zakir]

No tasleemat is also a poetic way of saying salam.

Ever heard of the greetings during sher shayar sessions?

Yaarane Bazm, Aadab o tasleemat !

I do know a little bit Urdu as well you know

Why are you trying to halalize vande matram even though you know it is haram.

 

[Awesome]

From an online dictionary Urdu to English Dictionary | English to Urdu Dictionary | ????? ??????? ????

TO MAKE A CURTSY تسلیمات کہنا

Curtsy is another word for greetings salutations.

Acceptance is tasleem as in tasleem shuda.

Ok courtesy can be true in certain contexts. So now how different is Courtesies to you mother from I bow to you mother. I mean why not Shub Kamnayen Mataram then? What you're saying is wrong, it IS bowing, it IS unacceptable to all any believing Muslim

 

[Vinod2070]

Fundamentally (although that word has a bad rep), Islam teaches that God can forgive all sins, but not the sin of association of divinity (what my friend from Bangladesh mentioned as "Shirk"). It is the reason Muslims don't recreate the picture of the Prophet or any other important Islamic figure. That is why Muslims stress on the vahid (one), the single-ness of God - no trinity, no equal, no one even measurably close.

Absolute care is given to not even accidentally promote any such association. "Bowing" is so basic, its a flat out no.

I understand the theory.

The question remains! Bowing was common in all Islamic kingdoms and under most of the Caliph rules.

 

[Awesome]

Isn't that the important point. No one is forcing anyone to sing vande mataram. It's not even made compulsory in schools. I don't remember singing it even once during my school days despite studying in one of the main Indian Govt school chains.

I was under the impression its sung at assembly daily. If there is freedom to refuse, then there's no issue.

 

[airuah]

a simple question ,if islam states that you should not bow to anything other than allah......do you guys never salute your national flag?..... dont your jawans salute their superior officers?...because everytime you do you are bowing to something......this is what happens when everything is taken literaly......pakistan will never understand the difference between nation and religion .....coz it created because of the same confusion.....while the idea of india was clear from the begining.....

 

[Awesome]

I understand the theory.

The question remains! Bowing was common in all Islamic kingdoms and under most of the Caliph rules.

So was killing at the whim of the Monarch. Bowing was not really common, no one came and gave prostration to the Kings, but I can't imagine there were no close chamchay bowing and going ji hazoor. So I haven't ruled it out.

THAT is not representative of Islam, that is just idiocy.

 

[Devianz]

I was under the impression its sung at assembly daily. If there is freedom to refuse, then there's no issue.

No. Only national anthem is sung daily. Vande mataram is only sung on special occasions and that too only the ones on stage sing it.

 

[SpArK]

Bowing is respect

 

[!!craft!!]

Why are you trying to halalize vande matram even though you know it is haram.

dont worry we dont!!. and please be out of the misconception that we Indian Muslims dont know the meaning and preachings of islam .being from a muslim country dose not make you are a better Muslim. we have a very big muslim community over hear and pious Muslims too,so please dont bother teaching us what right and what wrong. judging, who is better is not up to you its upto Allah Tallah.
regards

 

[EjazR]

Ok courtesy can be true in certain contexts. So now how different is Courtesies to you mother from I bow to you mother. I mean why not Shub Kamnayen Mataram then? What you're saying is wrong, it IS bowing, it IS unacceptable to all any believing Muslim

Why are you trying to halalize vande matram even though you know it is haram.

I clearly stated that this is one translaion given. And I also said that if an expert group of Urdu and Sanskrit scholars agree on it then I have no objections. Both of you nor I are scholars on Urdu or Sanskrit.

And as has been made clear many times. Jana Gana Mana is the national anthem. Those who want to sing it(Vande Mataram) can. Those who do not want to; still respect the song but dont have to sing it. Regardless of some fringe elements might say.


This is my last post, as I request all others to as well. I think all questions and different aspects around this have been answered.