Can Kashmir wrest independence without Pakistan's help?

[Sully3]

Both these options have been tried , tested & have failed.

Sending troops into J&K by Pak would suit India admirably for the options it would open.

The last time it happened the Pak PM found himself at the doorstep of Clinton uninvited on their national holiday.

they say Pak troops had taken over kargil 2 months before indian counterparts had even found out about their posts being taken over. seems pretty embarrassing to me for an indian.

PA did what it was supposed to do unfortunately it was the tatu PM nawaz who couldnt handle the diplomatic pressure. But will give 10/10 marks to PA for its efforts in Kargil.

The only mistake they made was trusting the Indians about the with-drawl forces not being targeted when retreving back to their positions, as usual india went back on its claim on ceasefire and started killing the soldiers retreating back to Pak after the ceasefire was agreed

 

[Goenitz]

@Goenitz
Do Kashmiris have the caliber to emulate Chechens who indegeniously arranged for funds to buy weapons and have shaken up the Russian might on their own? If I am not wrong, there is no Pakistani equivalent in Chechnya's case to provide them with arms and training and also infiltrators (hope mods don't ban me for calling spade a spade)? Chechens have done it all on their own without any or negligible external help. On the other hand when there's shortage of arms in Kashmir, Kashmiris resort to stone-pelting and gun snatching from security forces.

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.

funds can be raised, by overseas Kashmiris (if it is legal) living in Uk. canada and US.. idk how chechyans got weapons, but it is difficult for Kashmiris to get one... they need RPG, Tank buster to keep inidan forces at bay.. they cant do that w/o a state help.. Chechyans might got from fall of USSR as one time, in black market Atomic bomb pieces of USSR origins were sold...

 

[axisofevil]

they say Pak troops had taken over kargil 2 months before indian counterparts had even found out about their posts being taken over. seems pretty embarrassing to me for an indian.

PA did what it was supposed to do unfortunately it was the tatu PM nawaz who couldnt handle the diplomatic pressure. But will give 10/10 marks to PA for its efforts in Kargil.

The only mistake they made was trusting the Indians about the with-drawl forces not being targeted when retreving back to their positions, as usual india went back on its claim on ceasefire and started killing the soldiers retreating back to Pak after the ceasefire was agreed

The sad state of affairs in the Indian military is completely due to Congress, its corruption that seeps downwards, and the widespread cronyism and corruption in the higher ranks. The only mistake India can do now is vote for a retard like a Rahul.

 

[HamWatan]

Kashmir has like 700k Indian troops in it and Pakistan stopped supplying the rebels in 2002.

 

[Imran Khan]

no country can hold forever today you are strong tomorrow who knows ? if you look sub continent map its change uncountable times in last 10000 years .

 

[Goenitz]

10000 years

how can we..... ..
no data available onlt legends and folk tales of that period.. but true for last 1000 years...

 

[Imran Khan]

how can we..... ..
no data available onlt legends and folk tales of that period.. but true for last 1000 years...

bhai jan no data needed for prove it D

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Kashmir has like 700k Indian troops in it and Pakistan stopped supplying the rebels in 2002.

If they had the caliber, they would have arranged arms somehow. Recollect how Iraqis and Afghans used roadside bombs made from fertilisers to harass Americans. On the other hand Kashmiris resort to stone-pelting in mobs and gun snatching from security forces.

 

[HamWatan]

Or maybe they're not just receiving foreign support.

 

[Goenitz]

If they had the caliber, they would have arranged arms somehow. Recollect how Iraqis and Afghans used roadside bombs made from fertilisers to harass Americans. On the other hand Kashmiris resort to stone-pelting in mobs and gun snatching from security forces.

no offence, but have you seen recent Taliban pics.. they are surely supported by rivals...

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Or maybe they're not just receiving foreign support.

If that's the case the case, violence levels should have been constant throughout. But it came down in 2000s. Is it because Kashmiris were fooled because of peace process?

no offence, but have you seen recent Taliban pics.. they are surely supported by rivals...

Rivals means who?

You mean Russians?

 

[Goenitz]

You mean Russians?

see your self man
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/afghan-taliban-announce-spring-offensive-al-khandaq.555484/

 

[Fireurimagination]

Kashmiris are busy with IPL right now, then there will be Ramadan, then some rest and then winter will set in and next year the cycle will repeat again.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Kashmiris are busy with IPL right now

That's why I don't trust Indian media. The Kashmiri I personally know and is a friend of mine had said that he had no interest in IPL because there are no Pakistani players involved.

 

[third eye]

Allow me to help by correcting misconceptions. & falsehoods which often come after opportunities & wars are lost.

in 65 Ayub knew India would retaliate heavily, if Akhnor is captured so he delayed it..

If Ayub was aware of Indian retaliation, why did he launch his troops across the Tawi ?

However, Ayub did no such thing. Akhnoor was lost to Pakistan because of the error of Change of Command mid stream . Maj Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik ( an Ahmadi ), GOC 12 Infantry Div was doing well yet he was replaced by Major General Mohammad Yahya Khan took over the command of operations as he thought it was a sure success and wanted all the glory for himself. GOC 12 Div Major General Akhtar Hussain Malik was sent back to look after the Hill Sector.

At 1100 hours on 2nd September an event of great significance took place. There was a change in the command of Pakistan’s operational force in Chamb. HQ 7 Infantry Division replaced HQ 12 Infantry Division. With the inevitable procedural delay that such changes involves, which gave the defender a breather of 36 hours."

Ayub knew what this victory would mean: It would catapult Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik in public eye.

He wanted one of his cronies to take credit of this vital victory. He asked Gen Musa, the then Commander in Chief of Pakistan Army to take Gen Yahya by helicopter to Chamb-Jurian sector and ask Gen Akhtar Hussain Malik to hand over the command of the Operations.

None of that happened , no glory came & an opportunity was lost. Gen Akhtar for the record was also the author of Grand Slam.

Here is a link to Grand Slam from a Pak source:

http://www.defencejournal.com/2000/sept/grand-slam.htm

Anyway, India widened the front which ended war..

Which was the right & natural thing to do, Pak has forever made & repeated this silly assessment that attacks in J&K will remain confined to J&K as far as retaliation goes.

similar thing happened on kargil, Pak could snub Siachen supply and thus Siachen vacation, so India, brought airforce etc.. as Pak couldn't afford a full war, so remained herself to ground troops deployment.. however, Pak was sure that this time front would remained limited due to recent nuclear tests...

Going by your POV ( bold above) , if a full fledged war could not be afforded, why start one ? Read my remarks on flawed Pak assessment above & see no change in the thinking from 65 to 99. Why would Nuclear tests change anything ? Here is yet another flawed assessment.