Can Jordan offer Pakistan any defence equipment?

[Ahassan]

if Pakistan ever imported any IFV it would be from turkey no Muslim nation competes turkey when it comes to making APC/IFV ...
specially this one;
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ide..._infantry_fighting_vehicle_idef_11005172.html

 

[Philip the Arab]

Pakistan Has a different concept of armored warfare compared to Jordan, m113 act as battle taxis and are not there to support infantry (except tow/baktar shikan equipped M113s) recently Pakistan introduced Viper IFV which might be used in PA Strike cor against India.

What Jordan should be selling to Pakistan is various parts i.e turret,missiles,Armour to Pakistan.

Your right I guess but M113 is a battle taxi for every country, Jordan did make a unmanned turret called the Falcon but sadly it was never introduced for upgrades but could work for Pakistan except I'm not aware that Pakistan uses 120mm and that could be a huge hurdle in terms of logistics..


Revolver Autoloader

As far as missiles go Pakistan makes the HJ-8 which is much better than the Jadara Terminator in terms of penetration with the HJ-8 having 800mm penetration and the Terminator having 550mm penetration the upside is that the quad terminator can be integrated on pretty much any vehicle Pakistan has.

Define what you mean by armor if you can, because I'm thinking body armor but am unsure of what you are talking about.
Do you think a anti-tank robot could be helpful to Pakistan?
PROJECT DESCRIPTION
MFR is a wireless controlled robotic vehicle able to perform long-range, long endurance missions, its designed to provide flexibility for different configurations such as Surveillance, Anti-terrorist Ops, Firefighting Ops, EOD Ops, Logistics and battle field recovery .

APPLICATIONS

1. Surveillance.
2. Anti-terrorist Ops.
3. Firefighting Ops.
4. EOD Ops.
5. Logistics and transportation (as demonstrated right now).
6. Anti-armored vehicles and Anti-bankers.

FEATURES

1. 6X6 wheel drive.
2. Daylight-readable, anti-glare screen.
3. Platform is fully electrically driven.
4. Payload is up to 200 kg.
5. Maximum speed is >10 km/h on asphalt roads.
6. Fording capability is up to 15 mm.
7. Trench crossing capability up to 450 mm.
8. Capable of passing vertical step climbing up to 200mm.
9. Equipped with 2 navigation cameras (front view and rear view).
10. Platform is equipped with 2 –way Audio system (microphones and speakers).
11. The operational time is 2 - 3 hours.
12. The operational range is 1500m with line of sight.
13. The portable control unit is enclosed in a weatherproof enclosure (IP66).
    

if Pakistan ever imported any IFV it would be from turkey no Muslim nation competes turkey when it comes to making APC/IFV ...
specially this one;
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ide..._infantry_fighting_vehicle_idef_11005172.html

What about costs and indigenous production? If I was Pakistan I would go for the cheaper thing I could get in larger numbers even if sub-par compared to the more expensive vehicle. You can be sure that in all out war there will be high vehicle losses and if you have more vehicles you can in theory have more vehicles left even with casualties.
Jordan will also most likely provide you with factories to make it in your country considering that Jordan has no monopoly on the middle east industry as Turkey has.

if Pakistan ever imported any IFV it would be from turkey no Muslim nation competes turkey when it comes to making APC/IFV ...
specially this one;
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ide..._infantry_fighting_vehicle_idef_11005172.html

And this vehicle looks way to expensive to mass produce. Turkey isn't the U.S. they don't have the defense spending to buy very many of these and these are much too expensive for Pakistan. I would guess these are at least 4 million usd for each considering the Bradley was 3.1 million usd in the 1990's.

Again, as I state before the RPG-32 is good product for Pakistan. You can mount it on pickup truks, Humvees, M113 and many others. It's much more useful for Pakistan that for example the RPG-7 considering how much more multirole it is from man-portable, to vehicle mounted, and finally stationary from up to 300 meters away.

Video so you can see the camera.

Jadara Terminator

 

[Philip the Arab]

Skip to 10:00 minutes for the action.

Skip to 16:00 to see the Terminator ATGM.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

They're IFVs are Ok but not dedicated and in no way to they offer the protection that for example an M2 Bradley offers.

Viper is heavier than bradley.
Hamza also offers stang 4 level protection.

 

[Signalian]

@Philip the Arab

Why doesnt Jordan Buy JF-17 from Pakistan?

AL khalid MBT ?

POF Eye?
Burraq UCAV ?

 

[Philip the Arab]

@Philip the Arab

Why doesnt Jordan Buy JF-17 from Pakistan?

AL khalid MBT ?

POF Eye?
Burraq UCAV ?

The don't actually need many new things. They got 80+ F-16s. New Marders, New Centuaros, Challenger 1s.
The UAV is a good idea but there is a huge market for UAVs from even Saudi Arabia so you have to demonstrate why your product is better than theirs.

 

[Sabretooth]

Pay your bloody taxes and we can have these toys!

WORD!

 

[Zhukov]

@Philip the Arab I was browsing through the products and cannot find a Fire-an-Forget ATGM system. Do Jordan Produce one or are those all Wire- Guided?

 

[Philip the Arab]

@Philip the Arab I was browsing through the products and cannot find a Fire-an-Forget ATGM system. Do Jordan Produce one or are those all Wire- Guided?

No they don't, fire and forget missiles are complex and Jordan has only been in business for 20 years but no those are not wire guided they are laser guided. The MBT Law is a good example of a cheap fire and forget missile that Pakistan or maybe even Jordan could do because most of the missile is just inertial guidance and it can destroy any tank because of Top-attack. Automatic target tracking is also possible which the Kornet-EM has it is basically just keeping the laser aligned with the target by itself even if the target is moving.
This video demonstrates in theory that if you put a laser on a missile and make it follow a target somehow the electronics will communicate with the control surfaces to guide it on target.

@ahmadnawaz22
This could also work for tracking.

Who know civilian tech could work for military uses.

So my thesis is that if you could use a target tracking laser, connect it to electronics which connect to control surfaces you could make a cheap fire and forget missile.

 

[cabatli_53]

What about costs and indigenous production? If I was Pakistan I would go for the cheaper thing I could get in larger numbers even if sub-par compared to the more expensive vehicle. You can be sure that in all out war there will be high vehicle losses and if you have more vehicles you can in theory have more vehicles left even with casualties.

This easy logic will certainly drive the nations into disaster. The order of current warfare environment obliges countries to develop more protected, more electronically intelligent systems working as a part of a bigger network. No need to challenge with modern armies, Today’s terrorist organizations are using most modern ATGM’s like bullets and You believe you will survive against modern armies thanks to cheap solutions?

The IFV @Ahassan introduced has a gun which is able to target both aerial and land targets. Programmable munitions imporve the effetveness of 35mm bullets. The active protection system ( Akkor ) on board is able to stop not only ATGM, but also kynetic energy munitions. The drone integration is vital in today’s urban war environment. 360 degree IR solution is important for situation awareness in close combat scenarios. All those comes with a costs, If you do not want to sacrifice your soldiers against a cheap missile. It is not important How many IFV you have while enemy is waiting for you with thousands of missile.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The don't actually need many new things. They got 80+ F-16s. New Marders, New Centuaros, Challenger 1s.
The UAV is a good idea but there is a huge market for UAVs from even Saudi Arabia so you have to demonstrate why your product is better than theirs.

You dont have a good Maint Battle Tank.
You just have upgraded 60s chieftains and challengers.

While Pakistan has AK-is and under development AL KHALID II , with a 1500hp powerpack and improved armour and firepowe! Aswell as the AZ upgrade!


The only IFV you have is Turkish ACV-15 (which is lighter than Pak Viper IFV) is has lesser fire power.

Your F-16s are old and have not gone through MLUs!
While Pakistan can offer JF-17 Block II & III (Combat Proven in A2A & A2G roles).

In your arty all you have is old M-109A2s (while we have A5s).

You have no real MLRS, Pakistan has A-100,KRL-122 & upcoming AMLRS & NASR with conventional warheads.

You dont have good UAVs, while Pakistan has MALE UCAVs & UAVs and countless type of other drones. And a new generation stealth UCAV under development.

We can even provide you HALE UAVs with 24 hour endurance for agriculture, weather and recon! Which can also be manned!

We can also offer you Light Assault Vehicles for your SF, like Predator,HMCVs, Hamza Multi Combat role Armoured Vehicle series (which can be modifed for multipurpose roles including IED protectiob).

Even IED detection and disposal robots.

Heck even new FCS,Simulators (Tank,Sub,Jet,Ship).
Naval combat management systems.
Anti Ship Cruise Missiles like Harbah.
Advanced Guided Air to Ground Precision Munitions.

And much more.

They're IFVs are Ok but not dedicated and in no way to they offer the protection that for example an M2 Bradley offers.

What are you talking about?

Hamza is a MCV with a 30MM Canon,2x Machine Guns & offers STANG 4 level protection, IED protection against 10+ KG and has a big payload capacity and is powered by a 500HP powerplant.

The Viper has a remote controlled Turret Armed with a 30 mm Canon, 2x ATGMs like Konkurs,
RCWS's sensor suite incorporates a daylight TV camera, infrared sight, and laser rangefinder. The commander's workstation can additionally be fitted with a panoramic sight.

It can transport 13 soldiers (3 crew).

And can be up armoured with additional modular armour aswell as roll cage armour.

 

[Philip the Arab]

You dont have a good Maint Battle Tank.
You just have upgraded 60s chieftains and challengers.

While Pakistan has AK-is and under development AL KHALID II , with a 1500hp powerpack and improved armour and firepowe! Aswell as the AZ upgrade!


The only IFV you have is Turkish ACV-15 (which is lighter than Pak Viper IFV) is has lesser fire power.

Your F-16s are old and have not gone through MLUs!
While Pakistan can offer JF-17 Block II & III (Combat Proven in A2A & A2G roles).

In your arty all you have is old M-109A2s (while we have A5s).

You have no real MLRS, Pakistan has A-100,KRL-122 & upcoming AMLRS & NASR with conventional warheads.

You dont have good UAVs, while Pakistan has MALE UCAVs & UAVs and countless type of other drones. And a new generation stealth UCAV under development.

We can even provide you HALE UAVs with 24 hour endurance for agriculture, weather and recon! Which can also be manned!

We can also offer you Light Assault Vehicles for your SF, like Predator,HMCVs, Hamza Multi Combat role Armoured Vehicle series (which can be modifed for multipurpose roles including IED protectiob).

Even IED detection and disposal robots.

Heck even new FCS,Simulators (Tank,Sub,Jet,Ship).
Naval combat management systems.
Anti Ship Cruise Missiles like Harbah.
Advanced Guided Air to Ground Precision Munitions.

And much more.



What are you talking about?

Hamza is a MCV with a 30MM Canon,2x Machine Guns & offers STANG 4 level protection, IED protection against 10+ KG and has a big payload capacity and is powered by a 500HP powerplant.

The Viper has a remote controlled Turret Armed with a 30 mm Canon, 2x ATGMs like Konkurs,
RCWS's sensor suite incorporates a daylight TV camera, infrared sight, and laser rangefinder. The commander's workstation can additionally be fitted with a panoramic sight.

It can transport 13 soldiers (3 crew).

And can be up armoured with additional modular armour aswell as roll cage armour.

Bradley is 30mm resistant which is Stanag 6. The newer versions have better technology than the Viper.

You dont have a good Maint Battle Tank.
You just have upgraded 60s chieftains and challengers.

While Pakistan has AK-is and under development AL KHALID II , with a 1500hp powerpack and improved armour and firepowe! Aswell as the AZ upgrade!


The only IFV you have is Turkish ACV-15 (which is lighter than Pak Viper IFV) is has lesser fire power.

Your F-16s are old and have not gone through MLUs!
While Pakistan can offer JF-17 Block II & III (Combat Proven in A2A & A2G roles).

In your arty all you have is old M-109A2s (while we have A5s).

You have no real MLRS, Pakistan has A-100,KRL-122 & upcoming AMLRS & NASR with conventional warheads.

You dont have good UAVs, while Pakistan has MALE UCAVs & UAVs and countless type of other drones. And a new generation stealth UCAV under development.

We can even provide you HALE UAVs with 24 hour endurance for agriculture, weather and recon! Which can also be manned!

We can also offer you Light Assault Vehicles for your SF, like Predator,HMCVs, Hamza Multi Combat role Armoured Vehicle series (which can be modifed for multipurpose roles including IED protectiob).

Even IED detection and disposal robots.

Heck even new FCS,Simulators (Tank,Sub,Jet,Ship).
Naval combat management systems.
Anti Ship Cruise Missiles like Harbah.
Advanced Guided Air to Ground Precision Munitions.

And much more.



What are you talking about?

Hamza is a MCV with a 30MM Canon,2x Machine Guns & offers STANG 4 level protection, IED protection against 10+ KG and has a big payload capacity and is powered by a 500HP powerplant.

The Viper has a remote controlled Turret Armed with a 30 mm Canon, 2x ATGMs like Konkurs,
RCWS's sensor suite incorporates a daylight TV camera, infrared sight, and laser rangefinder. The commander's workstation can additionally be fitted with a panoramic sight.

It can transport 13 soldiers (3 crew).

And can be up armoured with additional modular armour aswell as roll cage armour.

Also, F-16s can be upgraded to the V variant which is better than the JF-17. They are getting Marders, and Centauros actually. What are you talking about for MLRS? Jordan has Himars and the WM-120 MLRS which are very capable. Challengers are from the 80s actually so they aren't very old and still viable today. All the M109s can be upgraded to A6 so that isn't something to worry about. Jordan has better SAMs than you though which you forgot to mention. Where you guys mess up is guided missiles? Where are your fire-and-forget missiles?

This easy logic will certainly drive the nations into disaster. The order of current warfare environment obliges countries to develop more protected, more electronically intelligent systems working as a part of a bigger network. No need to challenge with modern armies, Today’s terrorist organizations are using most modern ATGM’s like bullets and You believe you will survive against modern armies thanks to cheap solutions?

The IFV @Ahassan introduced has a gun which is able to target both aerial and land targets. Programmable munitions imporve the effetveness of 35mm bullets. The active protection system ( Akkor ) on board is able to stop not only ATGM, but also kynetic energy munitions. The drone integration is vital in today’s urban war environment. 360 degree IR solution is important for situation awareness in close combat scenarios. All those comes with a costs, If you do not want to sacrifice your soldiers against a cheap missile. It is not important How many IFV you have while enemy is waiting for you with thousands of missile.

As I said before, how many can you guys get? Not many with Turkeys budget. I only could see the U.S. making advanced things like this because their defense spending is giant and they need a Bradley replacement. Besides, there is no way to completely stop IFVs from being destroyed even with all those fancy features. One guy hiding with a RPG-29 will take out any IFV except the T-15 in the world.

 

[cabatli_53]

Bradley is 30mm resistant which is Stanag 6. The newer versions have better technology than the Viper.


Also, F-16s can be upgraded to the V variant which is better than the JF-17. They are getting Marders, and Centauros actually. What are you talking about for MLRS? Jordan has Himars and the WM-120 MLRS which are very capable. Challengers are from the 80s actually so they aren't very old and still viable today. All the M109s can be upgraded to A6 so that isn't something to worry about. Jordan has better SAMs than you though which you forgot to mention. Where you guys mess up is guided missiles? Where are your fire-and-forget missiles?


As I said before, how many can you guys get? Not many with Turkeys budget. I only could see the U.S. making advanced things like this because their defense spending is giant and they need a Bradley replacement. Besides, there is no way to completely stop IFVs from being destroyed even with all those fancy features. One guy hiding with a RPG-29 will take out any IFV except the T-15 in the world.

It has nothing to do with total defense budgets, but country’s R&D and technological infrastructure. If you ask me How many IFV Turkey is going to produce for own army, There is an ongoing tender to acquire a domestic IFV around 1680 item in different congigurations. You have many stereotyped infos about military matters. There are many countries out of US who has ability to develop the systems mentioned above. Besides, Akkor hard-kill system has ability to stop a RPG fired a distance from 50m. The reaction times of hard-kill systems allow them to protect armored vehicles from such strikes but all have some limitations indeed but That is not about our subject now.

 

[Philip the Arab]

It has nothing to do with total defense budgets, but country’s R&D and technological infrastructure. If you ask me How many IFV Turkey is going to produce for own army, There is an ongoing tender to acquire a domestic IFV around 1680 item in different congigurations. You have many stereotyped infos about military matters. There are many countries out of US who has ability to develop the systems mentioned above. Besides, Akkor hard-kill system has ability to stop a RPG fired a distance from 50m. The reaction times of hard-kill systems allow them to protect armored vehicles from such strikes but all have some limitations indeed but That is not about our subject now.

What about RPG-30? Easy to trick hard kill systems because no time for reaction to 2 missiles.

 

[cabatli_53]

What about RPG-30? Easy to trick hard kill systems because no time for reaction to 2 missiles.

Current hard-kill systems can protect armored vehicles against all type widely used ATGM solutions. They are effective so Modern armies started to induct active protections into their armed forces so It is needed to develop a new RPG solution to cheat them with using their working principle against them. This time, For example, Turkish Akkor radar using C band bandwidh is able to track the real munition instead of tricker one to fire killer munitions against actual one. Turkish hardkill system will be operated as a part of tank fire control system and MMW radars will provide 360 degree situation awareness. The special algorithms on this radars are able to distinguish the target objects to classify them...