Can Japan show the West how to live peacefully with Islam?

[mandrom]

Bamiyan (destroyed by salafists) is more important to you than the lives of our Buddhist Bengali ancestors? I don't get the Indian psyche.

A parallel of this mindset can be drawn when we consider how Indians react to two other historical events: Indians don't hate the Brits for killing millions of Bangalis with the Bengal famine, but they hate Muslim Bengalis because some Turk centuries ago burnt some sacred libraries. Certainly the Turks (not us) should be hated. But the Brits don't get as much shlt form Indians because their massacre was more PR friendly.

Same is the case here. Sena Dynasty oppression on our ancestors is locked up in forgotten pages of our local history, while Bamyian got quite some media coverage (again what the Salafists did is not justified, but ignoring other events from history to suit your ideologies isn't nice either, but sadly, widely practiced.)

evidence please. @Tshering22 is a buddhist.

But the Brits don't get as much shlt form Indians because their massacre was more PR friendly.

brits left. sunnis continue provoking hindus.

 

[Jaanbaz]

How about sunnis reform themselves and learn to be peaceful like ahmadiyya and shia?

The problem is very complex. Have you ever met a real life Sunni Muslim in real life? Half of my family are conservative Sunnis belonging to Jamaat Islami but none of them supported terrorist acts, they like many Sunnis around the world condone it. The problem I think is that the extremist ultra groups and clerics are given too much space. Don't forget the unstoppable funding of extremists organisations around the Muslim World. As if certain powers gain something from radicalising Muslims.

 

[Maira La]

You have a really weird history on us...

US, not YOU. You're not a Bengali. Sena Dynasty's reach didn't extend that far into "barbarian lands" (well that's how they viewed you).

Anyways, just so you know, I'm not a Muslim and am not trying defend them (least of all, the Salafists).

evidence please. @Tshering22 is a buddhist.


brits left. sunnis continue provoking hindus.

Don't have time to dig things up now. Ask Indian Bengalis in this forum. Some of them have very unbiased, objective views (like @Joe Shearer ).

 

[mandrom]

The problem is very complex. Have you ever met a real life Sunni Muslim in real life? Half of my family are conservative Sunnis belonging to Jamaat Islami but none of them supported terrorist acts, they like many Sunnis around the world condone it. The problem I think is that the extremist ultra groups and clerics are given too much space. Don't forget the unstoppable funding of extremists organisations around the Muslim World. As if certain powers gain something from radicalising Muslims.

I lived in a building called Gulistan in Andheri (west), 70 % of the families muslim and 1 family was shia from Iran. Many of the kids of the sunnis hated India and everything indian in general.They would openly cheer for Pakistan in indo-pak matches and would talk in a way if tomorrow war happens they will support pakistan. The Shias were fine and cool .What do I make out of that?

Most sunnis are vicious and extremist in my opinion.Ahmadi save your brothers and reform them before economies start failing because then tensions will rise and looking at provocative behaviour of sunnis ,there will be a lot of violence.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

No traditional Nation state that had been built around shared ethnic identities are capable of absorbing ANY people deemed significantly different, so the focus on Muslims is a load of horse manure that merely serves a convenient political narrative. The fact is that Multiculturalism does not work for traditional nation states, that’s all. I know a bright Afghan girl in Germany who speaks several languages fluently - including German - has a Business degree in Marketing, was born into a Liberal family that do not wear head-coverings, but has been incapable of finding a simple job therein. When she finally did secure employment, it was in the island of Malta, surrounded by people who look more like her. In contrast, I’ve a cousin who was raised in Germany and has assimilated well, although with his height of 6.5, fair skin and thin brown hair, he can easily be mistaken for one of them. His Afghan wife too ccan be easily mistaken for an English woman.


Make no mistake about it that the European experiences of white Afghans as opposed to non-white Afghans differ remarkably.


The racism I am alluding to which is alive and well across Europe, contributes to alienation, social immobility, and at the end, the radicalization of pissed off youth who were born therein. I've personally met "friendly" Europeans who after discovering my ethnic origin change their tunes to such patronizing levels that it makes me want to puke. Even their pro-Multiculturalists can barely contain themselves. In fact, the only Europeans I’ve found capable of looking me in the eye as equals are those who needed something, like a job for instance or a business transaction. I don’t hide the fact that I quite dislike most EuroPeons, with the exception of Italians, Greeks, Southern French and Spaniards who although are just as racist, can’t even accept that I’m from Afghanistan.


Having said that, I would concur with you that BOTH Europeans and Japanese are incapable of assimilating Muslims, but mostly because of their own shortcomings, rather than solely on the part of Muslims. Do you suppose the following antics are as a result of Muslims?:

In Europe:

In Japan:

The only nation states that are indeed capable of assimilating Muslims as well as others, are either the United States, or any other that resemble your nation, hence Canada, Australia and New Zealand. I’ve known countless Afghans who’ve embraced and assimilated in these countries without a hiccup, but especially those living in densely populated cities across the United States, where there's immense diversity. Many among them have become flag carriers like any other American and feel offended when their “American exceptionalism” is criticised, which I enjoy tugging at when contradictions are apparent.


As for the real problems that do add to self-alienation among some Muslims even in the United States, it’s all about politics. As you can appreciate, an American Muslim would find it harder to fall in line with the media’s depiction of his ethnic kindred back in the motherland as a bunch of savages. Those caricatures may be enough for the average American to support wholesale bombing campaigns, but for those who can relate to them, it’s always different. I hate the Taliban, but when I see any of your troops mistreating any Afghan, my blood boils. But even still, this mind-set alone isn’t responsible for the radicalization of Muslims among you. What does contribute significantly is the added issue of professional failure on the part of leife's failures who meet with radical Mullahs that preach in Mosques. If preachers merely focused on leading prayers and motivating people to do good works, then there wouldn’t be a problem. However, given the lack of any formal schools of thought among Muslims that understand and embrace the Enlightenment, most Muslim preachers do indeed indulge in political language. To the stupid and the vulnerable, this is the spark for the fire of radicalism.


Given that in the United States, even hate speech is tolerated constitutionally (until the Anwar al-Awlaki episode that is) and that radicalism is available on the internet, then policing it is impossible. However, the solution is more Islam, not less. To counter the radicals, I would urge you to start listening to those of us who are indeed raising the lantern for the Islamic Enlightenment. To date, I‘ve seen no American say to me “hey, your ideas are worth pursuing, so let’s disco”. Instead, we’re rather conveniently dismissed as on the PR bandwagon of apologists for the Islamists, only pretending to be civilized.


Frankly, I’m sick of it.


Why don’t you just grow a dick and tell us that you’re more interested in those Muslims that help you draw the perfect caricatures for selling your wanton wars across the globe to the American people? After all, even Osama Bin Laden was less interested in what you do back home and more interested in what you are doing in his own home country and region. He might have been the perfect poster boy, but we both know that the US has always been more interested in the State(s) that have used him for plausible deniability when attacking the US.

I was with you until the gratuitous ad hominem in the last paragraph. Putting that aside, then you agree that Japan cannot show the West how to live peacefully with Islam?

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

You are quoting a Jewish Israeli Terror Force bigot as an authority on Muslims?

Are you smoking crack?



Spouting bigoted trash from your Zionist propaganda manual may win accolades from the resident Islamophobes here, but it does nothing to advance your credibility.

In what way has the Muslim community in the US demanded anything different from what the Jewish community demands?

Are Muslim requests (not demands) on Halal any different from the Jewish impositions on Kosher labeling?

Are Muslim requests for dress codes any different from Jewish or Sikh demands for similar dress codes?

I can see you are very emotional about this, so I will approach the subject matter delicately.

I am completely indifferent to market-driven changes, so if a company believes it can appeal to a new market by following halal practices, more power to them. That is what happened with Kosher food, as far as I am aware. The problem is when a demand is put forth to have all food, in this particular case, in schools, qualify as halal. That is imposing one's religious beliefs on another, since non-Muslims may not agree with the religious aspect of it. I'm not talking about whether it's humane or not, that is a separate issue. I am talking about the religious component.

Dress codes matter. When an individual enters a bank fully covered, with the face obscured, it presents a security issue. When an individual enters an airport fully covered, with the face obscured, it presents a security issue. I am not aware of similar Jewish or Sikh dress codes, but I would be happy for you to provide equivalent examples.

The Muslim community, as far as I am aware, is fairly well-integrated in the United States. This tells me two things:
1) The Muslim population in the US is small
2) Japan has nothing to teach the US about how to live peacefully with Islam

Please remember that you represent defence.pk and the Think Tank Analyst title before engaging in similar tirades and assigning negative ratings to fact-based posts that you don't agree with. You do a disservice to the site and the title when you act as you have here.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I lived in a building called Gulistan in Andheri (west), 70 % of the families muslim and 1 family was shia from Iran. Many of the kids of the sunnis hated India and everything indian in general.They would openly cheer for Pakistan in indo-pak matches and would talk in a way if tomorrow war happens they will support pakistan. The Shias were fine and cool .What do I make out of that?

Most sunnis are vicious and extremist in my opinion.Ahmadi save your brothers and reform them before economies start failing because then tensions will rise and looking at provocative behaviour of sunnis ,there will be a lot of violence.

Let history play itself out. I can't predict what is going to happen but I believe some Muslims are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[अखण्ड भारत!!!]

No ,it was mainly by syncretism,which is peaceful merging of two or more religions.Unlike Islam which was by sword and killed 600 million hindus.

Right...even today hindu buddhist generally don't differentiate each other in India at least

Quoting Daniel Pipes is not going to help your cause I'm afraid, as many are aware of his bias against Islam and where he receives his funding from.I doubt the figure that's what I said. I am not going to deny nor defend the crimes committed by the invading Muslims armies. Please remember that Islam does not condone the murder of innocent people, but it has happened. not just Muslims but all invading armies and empires were built on someone's blood and land.

I still don't understand what this has to do with the topic. What do you want? You want revenge from Muslims? Go ahead there are 200 million Muslims in India. You could fulfil part of your revenge. Maybe that will bring the ''600 million'' Hindus back from the dead.

80 million is the number

 

[mandrom]

Let history play itself out. I can't predict what is going to happen but I believe some Muslims are shooting themselves in the foot.

I hope you people can change your ummah's behavior.

Right...even today hindu buddhist generally don't differentiate each other in India at least


80 million is the number

80 million(pamela Geller) to 600 million(daniel Pipes)

 

[Jaanbaz]

80 million(pamela Geller) to 600 million(daniel Pipes)

And that's your source? Why do Indians worship anti Islamic white Christians?

I hope you people can change your ummah's behavior.

They will learn from their mistakes.

 

[mandrom]

And that's your source? Why do Indians worship anti Islamic white Christians?



They will learn from their mistakes.

I don't worship them.They have their views. Many agree with them as far as islamic imperialism and its war crimes against humanity.But many don't agree with Geller's ideas to deal with Islam .

 

[MarkusS]

The funny thing is Turks don't want to be in EU. So sod off you retard. I hope the Turks keep multiplying like rabbits in Germany and out populate your filthy and racist kind.



What a load of BS.

I´m not german. I´m italian. Beside that, the number of turks in germany is sinking, many move back to turkey simply because they don´t get employed from german corporations. A turkish sounding name is enough to end on welfare, no matter how smart you are. Beside that, i´m not racist. Islam is not a race, its an ideology.

On a sidenote, its good that most turks don´t want be part of the EU. It was a mistake to tell them they could from the beginning. Turkey could never be a member of EU. Just one single EU member state must denie it and thats it. And germany, austria, greece, cyprus, italy and so on will never allow turkey in the EU.

Why should we? So we have a boarder with Iran, Iraq and Syria? No thank you. Turkey is asian. If we let them in we can also jet China join the EU. Turkey simply has no place in european culture, history and way of life. Thats not against turkey, but simply a fact. It would be bad for them too. They can have partnership and thats it.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Why should we? So we have a boarder with Iran, Iraq and Syria? No thank you. Turkey is asian. If we let them in we can also jet China join the EU. Turkey simply has no place in european culture, history and way of life. Thats not against turkey, but simply a fact. It would be bad for them too. They can have partnership and thats it.

Man read history. This is your homework, you have to tell the name of one European Empire Turkey was part of.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I´m not german. I´m italian. Beside that, the number of turks in germany is sinking, many move back to turkey simply because they don´t get employed from german corporations. A turkish sounding name is enough to end on welfare, no matter how smart you are. Beside that, i´m not racist. Islam is not a race, its an ideology.

On a sidenote, its good that most turks don´t want be part of the EU. It was a mistake to tell them they could from the beginning. Turkey could never be a member of EU. Just one single EU member state must denie it and thats it. And germany, austria, greece, cyprus, italy and so on will never allow turkey in the EU.

Why should we? So we have a boarder with Iran, Iraq and Syria? No thank you. Turkey is asian. If we let them in we can also jet China join the EU. Turkey simply has no place in european culture, history and way of life. Thats not against turkey, but simply a fact. It would be bad for them too. They can have partnership and thats it.

Good. You could have put it in better words but instead you chose to clown around. Good Luck. Turkey is rising and will continue to do so. Her enemies may burn in their own fire.

 

[MarkusS]

Man read history. This is your homework, you have to tell the name of one European Empire Turkey was part of.

The roman empire. At that time the land that is turkey today was european and mostly hellenistic. You can´t compare this with turkey today.

Good. You could have put it in better words but instead you chose to clown around. Good Luck. Turkey is rising and will continue to do so. Her enemies may burn in their own fire.

I don´t see turkey rising. I see it sinking. It lost evry single diplomatic battle. Syria, Egypt and so on. Erdogan is isolated in the region. He has russia as enemy, arabs as enemy and internal struggle.

I find it laughable that you see the EU as "enemy" of turkey. Because we don´t want Turkey in the EU does not mean we hate it or want bad for it. It just doesn´t fit into the EU.