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Can Japan show the West how to live peacefully with Islam?

@Developereo
Those are extremely stupid comments that Buddhism in India was wiped out by Hindu extremists. Buddhism is actually growing at the moment in India. @Abotani @Tshering22 as Indian Buddhists, what is your opinion on his comments?

On what basis do you make that claim? Buddhism in Bengal was wiped out by the Sena dynasty. Buddhists were massacred, persecuted like animals and forced to live as dalits, until the Muslim invasions. That's when we mass converted to Islam.

Ever wondered why Bengal is the only place in NE Indian subcontinent with such a high percentage of Muslims? Now you know. =)
 
On what basis do you make that claim? Buddhism in Bengal was wiped out by the Sena dynasty. Buddhists were massacred, persecuted like animals and forced to live as dalits, until the Muslim invasions. That's when we mass converted to Islam.

Ever wondered why Bengal is the only place in NE Indian subcontinent with such a high percentage of Muslims? Now you know. =)

We all saw Bamiyan Buddha's fate on TV. Afghanistan was predominantly Buddhist (not Hindu) before the Muslim Invasion.
 
didn't read after page 7, will do later, but already can tell that certain people already link muslim presence in a country with chaos and doom. That goes to show how the media really influenced people into making them think that Islam is naturally something evil. Doesnt mean though that the integration of foreigners (not necessarily muslims only) in some European countries truly failed, which is more the govt's mistake than anything since they had the authority to allow these people (most of them are unskilled poor immigrants) in or not and let them settle in various parts of the country in order to avoid formation of ghettos, yet some European govts lost control and thereofre failed. If Japanese govt can keep strict rules and also avoid the formation of ghettos, im sure Japan, a relative unbiased country towards muslims, could show the west how it is done.
As for the ones who said that muslims will demand more and more, and resort to terrorism if they fail, i guess as long as people have the right to go to the court and apply for certain rules, why not? it doesnt only count for muslims. I know from real life experience that jews in Europe can set up their their own schools and apply for kosher label system as well, no one says a harmful thing about jews when they apply for such things, but when muslims do, the response tends to be cliche; 'see muslims demand more and more', 'muslims want to impose their lifestyle on us' 'muslims want to shove halal meat down our throat' etc. Media's effect is clearly showing. imo, 'Europe's misadventure with integration' is kinda exaggerated, statistics get better with each generation and there are still way more integrated foreigners than a handful lazy criminals.
 
didn't read after page 7, will do later, but already can tell that certain people already link muslim presence in a country with chaos and doom. That goes to show how the media really influenced people into making them think that Islam is naturally something evil. Doesnt mean though that the integration of foreigners (not necessarily muslims only) in some European countries truly failed, which is more the govt's mistake than anything since they had the authority to allow these people (most of them are unskilled poor immigrants) in or not and let them settle in various parts of the country in order to avoid formation of ghettos, yet some European govts lost control and thereofre failed. If Japanese govt can keep strict rules and also avoid the formation of ghettos, im sure Japan, a relative unbiased country towards muslims, could show the west how it is done.
As for the ones who said that muslims will demand more and more, and resort to terrorism if they fail, i guess as long as people have the right to go to the court and apply for certain rules, why not? it doesnt only count for muslims. I know from real life experience that jews in Europe can set up their their own schools and apply for kosher label system as well, no one says a harmful thing about jews when they apply for such things, but when muslims do, the response tends to be cliche; 'see muslims demand more and more', 'muslims want to impose their lifestyle on us' 'muslims want to shove halal meat down our throat' etc. Media's effect is clearly showing. imo, 'Europe's misadventure with integration' is kinda exaggerated, statistics get better with each generation and there are still way more integrated foreigners than a handful lazy criminals.

It is always others' fault NO?
 
It is always others' fault NO?
is it always muslims' fault?
I wrote that there are lazy and criminal immigrants too. and imho these should be send back whenever they repetitively get caught again. 100% integration will be impossible to achieve to begin with anyway. However, there is definitely a two-faced approach in some European countries when it comes to muslims. The media is more than often negative about muslims and the general public opinion about islam and muslims seem to be changing as well. Why? because a small portion failed to integrate? The failures of muslims in their country get enlarged while in reality the truth is that integration is not that bad as people are claiming here. Im confident that if the Japanese govt can handle the number of immigrants and their settlement location well, there won't be any significant problem. people shouldn't expect only from muslim (or whatever religious or ethnic group) side and neither should muslims expect only help from the govt, both need each other's input and this is where some policies of the past govts of some European countries have failed, they didn't plan accordingly nor anticipated that so many poor immigrants would come and stay. we shall see 10 years later what will become of Japan.
 
No dear they are just common harmless citizens! !!
They themselves agree they are illegals

On what basis do you make that claim? Buddhism in Bengal was wiped out by the Sena dynasty. Buddhists were massacred, persecuted like animals and forced to live as dalits, until the Muslim invasions. That's when we mass converted to Islam.

Ever wondered why Bengal is the only place in NE Indian subcontinent with such a high percentage of Muslims? Now you know. =)
All those silly claims are fake speculations and not facts

On what basis do you make that claim? Buddhism in Bengal was wiped out by the Sena dynasty. Buddhists were massacred, persecuted like animals and forced to live as dalits, until the Muslim invasions. That's when we mass converted to Islam.

Ever wondered why Bengal is the only place in NE Indian subcontinent with such a high percentage of Muslims? Now you know. =)
Bengalis converted to islam because hindus tortured buddhists?What logic is there in this?
 
Muslims, Jews and Christians have coexisted in peace for centuries. If the west changes its interventionist foreign policy towards the Muslim world, there would be no problem.
As the saying goes "I will respect you in the morning!"

I am quite sure you were fine with our intervention in Bosnia. What a bunch of hypocrites.

p10-islam-b-20140624-870x580.jpg

A piece of home: The multinational congregation at the Tokyo Camii attends Friday prayer.


Long ago, in another life, I went to a mosque in San Francisco to attend Friday prayer. More than the calling of Islam, it was a Libyan woman who beckoned me, and for the sake of family blessing, I considered a love conversion.

Enamored and clueless, I checked out the scene — an alabaster agnostic among dark-skinned and bearded believers, who eyed me wonderingly as we kneeled to pray.

Face down with my arms outstretched, my behind in the air and my nose smelling the prayer rug, I could feel that a prostration is a submission — a concession of smallness in front of a higher power. I could feel that as a humble servant to the only one god, Allah, you are no longer boss of the spectacle that is you. It was a gut-level challenge.

As I was leaving the mosque, saying goodbye to the regulars who had warmed to the newbie, I started liking these people and their humility. But with the exotic aroma of spices and the muezzin droning the Arabic verses, there was a sense of an alien reality. “If I get in too deep here,” I mused in private, “I might lose myself.”

The intrepid writer George Plimpton — who made a career out of ambling into otherness — once captured this bittersweet affirmation, leaving a football field to applause after a hapless trial with the Detroit Lions.

“The outsider did not belong,” Plimpton wrote about the amateur and his audience, “and there was comfort in that being proved.”

Like other projects enamored and clueless, my love conversion was later aborted.

Fast forward to Tokyo, the present. As this Saturday ushers in Ramadan, the monthlong fasting from dawn to dusk that is observed by Muslims worldwide, it has been striking to see Japan’s efforts to make this minority feel at home.

Some university cafeterias, hotels and restaurants now offer halal meal choices. There are Muslim tour guides, as well as prayer rooms at airports and companies — in addition to more than 100 Islamic associations. Even Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, at a Ramadan party last summer, assured foreign ambassadors of the “unbroken bond” between Japan and the Muslim world.

In part, the embrace is customer service. As relations with China went sour, Japan eased visa restrictions last year for Southeast Asian nations, to offset the lost business. This boosted tourism and student exchanges from Malaysia and Indonesia — the latter home to the largest Muslim population in the world — to the point that now more and more hijab headscarves are dotting Japan’s urban landscapes.

“Islam here is growing,” says Musa Omar, the executive director of the Islamic Center Japan in Ohara, Setagaya Ward, which first opened in 1963. He speaks with congenial authority, the kind of man who inspires you to read books and be a better, more spiritual person.

“We don’t recruit, but the mosques are full and each day people are coming to visit. Also, there are more conversions — many of them for marriage, both women and men.”

There is no reliable count of Muslims in Japan, allows Musa, but it now far exceeds 100,000. Having lived here for 40 years and served as the Sudanese ambassador, he thinks that the local community enjoys a unique idyll.

“There are no ties to our homeland politics,” says Musa. “At Japanese mosques there are no divisions, no problems between Sunnis and Shiites. The police here are on our side, and the people are open to Islam. Whatever prejudice they may have, they get from the West.”

Who would have thought: Japan, a utopia of pluralism?

Uniting a colorful mix of expats from Asia, Africa and the Middle East, removed from the context of sectarian strife and the historical Western interference still haunting many Muslim countries, could the Japanese brand of Islam be a showcase for its peaceful essence? Are the frictions between Muslims and the West based in part on identity posturing?

The Tokyo Camii, the largest mosque in Japan, built in a lavish Ottoman style, emerges from the Shinjuku skyline like something out of “Arabian Nights.” For the second Friday prayer in my life, I embedded myself there with 200 Muslims who had gathered for a sermon and food — perhaps the most multiethnic crowd anywhere in Japan (although the vast majority of the faithful are men).

The sermon, held in English and Japanese, exhorts the congregation to respect their parents. Later on, as people line up for rice and potatoes, the atmosphere is relaxed and clubby, a meet-and-greet among fellow immigrants. A visiting group of Japanese seniors is getting a tour of the mosque.

It feels different from Western environs, where Christianity and Islam are seen as the other’s Other. There is the fear of a Muslim planet — an immigrant force out-populating the natives, seeking to set up a caliphate governed by Islamic law. Afraid of a stealth ideology, conservatives such as the historian Sir Martin Gilbert warn that “the European idea is being subverted by Islamic hostility to the very ethics and values of Europe itself.” The message is picked up by politicians and media exploiting the Muslim bogeyman.

“The larger threat comes not from the immigrants themselves, but from our response to them,” Doug Saunders counters in his book “The Myth of the Muslim Tide: Do Immigrants Threaten the West?”

“These are clashes within civilizations, not between them,” Saunders writes, “and to a large extent they are products of the false belief, held by Muslims and non-Muslims alike, that the world is divided into fixed and irreconcilable civilizations.”

With an array of surprising facts, Saunders claims to show that most Muslim immigrants have no wish for Shariah law. Likewise, he writes, their fertility rates are actually decreasing as this diaspora adjusts to lifestyles and trends in the West.

Meanwhile, in Japan, no one frets over the Great Decline. Islamophobia is not an industry; the Other here is Chinese. The Japanese may be drawn to what they see as the pureness, the disciplined abnegation on display during Ramadan, yet unlike some in the West, they don’t appear to feel challenged by perceptions of superior spirituality.

“The Tokyo religion is fashion,” jokes Rahil Khan, 47, from Rawalpindi in Pakistan. A company owner with a swashbuckling air, he is a fixture in the Muslim community. Khan believes it is the social element that is attracting the Japanese.

“People are lonely at home,” muses Khan, “so they come to the mosque for company, for conversation and jokes. At the iftar (the shared breaking of the fast after sunset during Ramadan), many Japanese show up for free food. They follow Ramadan more than Islam — it’s like a festival.”

On a Saturday night, Khan takes me to my third mosque in Tokyo, on the outskirts of Asakusa. A prayer leader from Indonesia speaks to a group of Pakistanis and a Tunisian about the “Five Intentions to Read the Quran.”

The multinational setting leads to a comical misunderstanding, when the leader asks the group in English, “So why does the Quran have 30 juz (the Arabic word for ‘sections’)?” and Khan replies, perfectly sincere, “It is, like, orange juice for the 30 people. You know, they are thirsty.”

Being a Muslim means many things to many people in their very different lives. As for the evening prayer in Asakusa, it feels like a guys’ night out without booze — expats meeting with friends and connecting through things they would do back home.

But in Japan as well, the authorities are watching Islam. Government officers check the mosque in Asakusa, and the police keep an eye on Khan as he roams Shinagawa on business. One day, in decidedly un-Japanese fashion, he walked into a station and confronted the officers.

“I go inside and say, ‘What is the problem? Let us talk about this problem!’ If you need something, you should come and ask.”

No one says that diversity is easy, or even natural. A harmonious pluralism might need curiosity as well as indifference, both emblematic of how Japanese handle otherness. As for the showcase Muslim community, the alabaster agnostic is keeping his fingers crossed.


Can Japan show the West how to live peacefully with Islam? | The Japan Times

jappermoslem.jpg

For those who want to understand today's muslim mind.

Amazon.com: after the prophet the epic story of the shia-sunni split in islam

After the Prophet: The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split in Islam: Lesley Hazleton: 9780385523943: Amazon.com: Books
 
To be honest despite being neighbours, societies were not entirely in harmony, usually, Muslims were living in Muslim neighbourhoods/villages/towns, Christians , Jews and sometimes even seperate ethnicities were living in different neighbourhoods/villages/towns.

The thing that was keeping the balance was having some borders between them, they were not in love for each other in past as well, as long, they were just not much involving in each other's affairs/interactions(of course that doesn't means there was no interaction)

@Nihonjin1051

What would my name sound like ? My name is Hakan(first a is little long, like Haakan) :)

Hakan? Noxchi? Chechen?

No offence to anyone. You should wait until Muslim population increases before making these claims.

Japan will go all samurai over them. They were the culture who defeated imperial Russia and china. Though Soviet Russia inflicted very severe defeats on Japan in Mongolia and end of ww2 .

By debating...not by force

No ,it was mainly by syncretism,which is peaceful merging of two or more religions.Unlike Islam which was by sword and killed 600 million hindus.
 
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Did you ever visit turkey? Turkey is not just Istanbul and Izmir. Large parts in the east look like africa. So yep. Bulgaria is indeed better than turkey. Basic fact is that muslim countries have no place in EU. We dont want them, we dont need them. Its not working.

The funny thing is Turks don't want to be in EU. So sod off you retard. I hope the Turks keep multiplying like rabbits in Germany and out populate your filthy and racist kind.

No ,it was mainly by syncretism,which is peaceful merging of two or more religions.Unlike Islam which was by sword and killed 600 million hindus.

What a load of BS.
 
On what basis do you make that claim? Buddhism in Bengal was wiped out by the Sena dynasty. Buddhists were massacred, persecuted like animals and forced to live as dalits, until the Muslim invasions. That's when we mass converted to Islam.

Ever wondered why Bengal is the only place in NE Indian subcontinent with such a high percentage of Muslims? Now you know. =)
You have a really weird history on us... :blink:

They themselves agree they are illegals

Bengalis converted to islam because hindus tortured buddhists?What logic is there in this?

That's what new converts or those generations who were lost due to violence in the previous, are taught. Ignore the lady.
 
The funny thing is Turks don't want to be in EU. So sod off you retard. I hope the Turks keep multiplying like rabbits in Germany and out populate your filthy and racist kind.



What a load of BS.

Look ahmadiiya you people peaceful because your prophet was saint,but sunnis are not.they don't recognize you as islam.

and :

According to Prof. K.S. Lal, the author of the “Growth of Muslim population in India”, the Hindu population decreased by 80 million between 1000 AD, the year Mahmud Ghazni invaded India and 1525 AD, an year before the battle of Panipat.

One can safely add another 20 million Hindus to this list to account for the number that were killed during the Mughal rule or the rule of the Muslim rulers in the Deccan plateau. By all known accounts of world history, as pointed out by Koenard Elst in his book the “Negationism in India”, destruction of about 100 million Hindus is perhaps the biggest holocaust in the whole world history.

According to some other estimates, Muslim invaders had killed 600 million Hindus. While this may look outrageous, the source given by me describes the calculation in detail. However, I can’t vouch for the authenticity of this calculation but the logic in the source seems to be true.
Hindu Defense League | Know What The Islamic Invaders Did To Hindus

MUSLIMS KILLED 600 MILLION HINDUS!!! :: Reader comments at Daniel Pipes
 
Look ahmadiiya you people peaceful because your prophet was saint,but sunnis are not.they don't recognize you as islam.

and :

According to Prof. K.S. Lal, the author of the “Growth of Muslim population in India”, the Hindu population decreased by 80 million between 1000 AD, the year Mahmud Ghazni invaded India and 1525 AD, an year before the battle of Panipat.

One can safely add another 20 million Hindus to this list to account for the number that were killed during the Mughal rule or the rule of the Muslim rulers in the Deccan plateau. By all known accounts of world history, as pointed out by Koenard Elst in his book the “Negationism in India”, destruction of about 100 million Hindus is perhaps the biggest holocaust in the whole world history.

According to some other estimates, Muslim invaders had killed 600 million Hindus. While this may look outrageous, the source given by me describes the calculation in detail. However, I can’t vouch for the authenticity of this calculation but the logic in the source seems to be true.
Hindu Defense League | Know What The Islamic Invaders Did To Hindus

MUSLIMS KILLED 600 MILLION HINDUS!!! :: Reader comments at Daniel Pipes


Quoting Daniel Pipes is not going to help your cause I'm afraid, as many are aware of his bias against Islam and where he receives his funding from.I doubt the figure that's what I said. I am not going to deny nor defend the crimes committed by the invading Muslims armies. Please remember that Islam does not condone the murder of innocent people, but it has happened. not just Muslims but all invading armies and empires were built on someone's blood and land.

I still don't understand what this has to do with the topic. What do you want? You want revenge from Muslims? Go ahead there are 200 million Muslims in India. You could fulfil part of your revenge. Maybe that will bring the ''600 million'' Hindus back from the dead.
 
The experience of the West is that it always starts out this way. In very small numbers, Muslim populations generally confine their needs to their own community, and otherwise, are an unobtrusive presence. The Western European experience has shown that once the population hits the 5%+ mark, things change. The Muslim community, having reached critical mass, begins to make itself apparent. Blocking off streets for prayer. Demanding the labeling of food as halal or non-halal, or demanding that all food served in schools be halal. Importing radical imams from unstable regions of the world. Referring to the citizens of their host countries as kuffar who must accept the rule of Islam (you can even find adherents to such beliefs here on defence.pk). After this special treatment is rebuffed, the alienation begins. The Muslim population demands to be treated differently, and then when it is, individual Muslims begin to wonder why they are looked at differently from other citizens. Instead of reversing course and assimilating, the alienation deepens, the extremism enters, and then comes the terrorism.
This has been the experience in Western Europe.
These social tensions are real, and the balance to accommodate religious belief with the requirement of assimilation for social stability is a difficult task. Japan is far from grappling with these issues, so it is of course very easy for Japan to be accepting, since Islam is still little more than a curiosity in Japan. Japan did not benefit from tolerance of Aum Shinrikyo, and long before that, the Japanese Red Army. The lesson will be learned again, it would seem.

Wait till the Muslim population reaches 10% and same will happen that happened to Christians in Japan in 1600s.

@Nihonjin1051 Can you please tell me what happened to Christians that came to Japan few centuries before. If I remember correctly when Portuguese arrived in Japan and many Japanese converted to Christianity.

CHRISTIANITY AND HIDDEN CHRISTIANS IN JAPAN | Facts and Details

Some detail of what happened to Christians in Japan from above link.

By 1600, the number of Christians reached 300,000 and peaked in the 1630s, when as many as 750,000 Japanese, or 10 percent of the population were born in Christian families or had converted to Christianity. The Portuguese also brought primitive muskets called harquebuses. Before the Portuguese arrived, the Japanese had never seen muskets or any other kind of firearm. Firearms and Christianity complicated the already complicated feudal war between the daimyos.

The efforts of the Jesuits were treated benignly by military leader Oda Nobunaga and also initially by military ruler Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Probably in reaction to their growing influence in Kyushu, however, Hideyoshi later turned against the Christians and had 26 crucified at Nagasaki in 1597. After he became the de facto ruler of Japan, in 1600, Tokugawa Ieyasu initially tolerated the missionaries but, in 1614, the Tokugawa government proscribed Christianity and expelled the missionaries from Japan. At this point there were more than 300,000 Japanese Christians. It is estimated that about 3,000 were executed, and a great number renounced their faith as a result of persecution. Many others concealed their beliefs and continued to practice Christianity in secret.


The heaviest repression took place in the early 1600s, when around 6,000 Christians were killed, mostly in the southern part of Japan, when Portuguese missionaries from Macao made the greatest inroads. Most of the dead were merchants and peasants. samurai and noblemen were forced to renounce the religion under pressure.


In 1638, 37,000 people, mostly Christians, were massacred during brutal crackdown after the Christian-led Shimbara Rebellion. As a result of this oppression it was thought the number of Christians was reduced to near zero.


The Goto Islands, Ikitsukishima Island and Sotomecho---all near Nagasaki---are home to the last remaining thousand or so Hidden Christians, whose ancestors practiced Christianity when the religion was outlawed between 1614 and 1873.
 
Quoting Daniel Pipes is not going to help your cause I'm afraid, as many are aware of his bias against Islam and where he receives his funding from.I doubt the figure that's what I said. I am not going to deny nor defend the crimes committed by the invading Muslims armies. Please remember that Islam does not condone the murder of innocent people, but it has happened. not just Muslims but all invading armies and empires were built on someone's blood and land.

I still don't understand what this has to do with the topic. What do you want? You want revenge from Muslims? Go ahead there are 200 million Muslims in India. You could fulfil part of your revenge. Maybe that will bring the ''600 million'' Hindus back from the dead.

How about sunnis reform themselves and learn to be peaceful like ahmadiyya and shia?
 
We all saw Bamiyan Buddha's fate on TV. Afghanistan was predominantly Buddhist (not Hindu) before the Muslim Invasion.

Bamiyan (destroyed by salafists) is more important to you than the lives of our Buddhist Bengali ancestors? I don't get the Indian psyche.

A parallel of this mindset can be drawn when we consider how Indians react to two other historical events: Indians don't hate the Brits for killing millions of Bangalis with the Bengal famine, but they hate Muslim Bengalis because some Turk centuries ago burnt some sacred libraries. Certainly the Turks (not us) should be hated. But the Brits don't get as much shlt form Indians because their massacre was more PR friendly.

Same is the case here. Sena Dynasty oppression on our ancestors is locked up in forgotten pages of our local history, while Bamyian got quite some media coverage (again what the Salafists did is not justified, but ignoring other events from history to suit your ideologies isn't nice either, but sadly, widely practiced.)
 
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