Can Japan show the West how to live peacefully with Islam?

[The Snow Queen]

You mean to say that 9/11 and 26/11 were executed to teach us "Intolerant" people a good lesson?

I am not sure about 26/11, but 9/11 was an inside job by the American government and Bin Laden was a CIA agent. Don't you know that!?

I can't speak for India, but the US has learned that it's damned if we do, damned if we don't. Ignore problems in the Muslim world, and we are the evil empire that doesn't value Muslim lives. Intervene in the Muslim world, and we are the evil empire, trying to colonize and corrupt Dar es Salaam. Americans are increasingly inured to the problems of the Muslim world, which is why we increasingly ignore the chaos in Africa and the Middle East. We help those who want to help themselves, because we only can help those who want to help themselves.

Help!? Really? Or trying to get all the natural resources?

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

I am not sure about 26/11, but 9/11 was an inside job by the American government and Bin Laden was a CIA agent. Don't you know that!?


Help!? Really? Or trying to get all the natural resources?

Thanks for proving my point. America cannot get involved in the Middle East without being accused of intentions to plunder, so from now on, I don't expect to hear you accusing the US of not caring about Muslim lives.

 

[amitkriit]

I am not sure about 26/11, but 9/11 was an inside job by the American government and Bin Laden was a CIA agent. Don't you know that!?


Help!? Really? Or trying to get all the natural resources?

Exactly, 9/11 was an inside job, 26/11 was a RSS conspiracy. Boko Haram is a group of Atheists masquerading as Muslims. Didn't we know that!

My crooked mind just got the overdose of the most peaceful and extremely compassionate stuff.

Thanks for proving my point. America cannot get involved in the Middle East without being accused of intentions to plunder, so from now on, I don't expect to hear you accusing the US of not caring about Muslim lives.

Why should America care about Muslim lives when they don't even care about their own lives?

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Why should America care about Muslim lives when they don't even care about their own lives?

That's news to me.

 

[UKBengali]

It is unlikely that Turkey will ever have a higher GDP than Germany.

Germany has a huge head start, and Turkish GDP growth is very inconsistent. To overtake a much larger economy, you need "sustained" double-digit growth rates, and Turkish growth fluctuates a lot, with a low average growth rate over the past few years.

Never say never.

It is theoretically possible with the current growth rates in
about 50 years. Too far away to make any accurate predictions now though.

Anyway, we cannot assume that the current gdp/capita gap between the
West and countries like Turkey is solely due to productivity factors as no real way
to accurately work out what will happen if the Western countries are no longer
dominant power on this planet.

 

[Developereo]

I can see you are very emotional about this, so I will approach the subject matter delicately.

Just replace the word 'Muslim' with 'Jew' in your original tirade and you will see why such stereotypical generalizations are not acceptable.

As to your alleged ignorance of Jewish and Sikh demands, that is something for you to correct. Educate yourself before making generalizations.

I can find LOTS more examples where Jewish plaintiffs have demanded removal of Christian symbols, or acknowledgement of Jewish concerns, than there are of Muslims in the West doing so.

 

[Aepsilons]

Just replace the word 'Muslim' with 'Jew' in your original tirade and you will see why such stereotypical generalizations are not acceptable.

As to your alleged ignorance of Jewish and Sikh demands, that is something for you to correct. Educate yourself before making generalizations.

I can find LOTS more examples where Jewish plaintiffs have demanded removal of Christian symbols, or acknowledgement of Jewish concerns, than there are of Muslims in the West doing so.

Ergo, the ACLU, ADL...!

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Just replace the word 'Muslim' with 'Jew' in your original tirade and you will see why such stereotypical generalizations are not acceptable.

As to your alleged ignorance of Jewish and Sikh demands, that is something for you to correct. Educate yourself before making generalizations.

I can find LOTS more examples where Jewish plaintiffs have demanded removal of Christian symbols, or acknowledgement of Jewish concerns, than there are of Muslims in the West doing so.

The truth is that I find the whole subject matter distasteful. The question of "what do we do with our Muslims?" has ugly repercussions, and echoes an even uglier past. I am unaware of large Jewish (or Sikh, Buddhist, or what have you) populations in Europe resorting to the same level of violence and intimidation that the Muslim populations of Europe have engaged in, but I am sure you will educate me on the matter. It is true that Jews are among those who call for the separation of church and state in the US, but they succeed because the US has such strictures written into our Constitution, and very large non-Jewish segments of the population agree with them. The reverse is not true: Jews do not demand public displays, or government sponsorship, of their own religious symbols and practices. Yet this occurs in Europe (e.g. Shariah courts, the call to prayer over loudspeakers, etc.) I am sure you will counter my ignorance in this regard as well, since you are clearly well informed on the matter.

I put the question to you: How will this problem be solved?

 

[Developereo]

Ergo, the ACLU, ADL...!

There is a famous aphorism, "Perception is 90% of reality".

What matters is not the facts, but the media spin.

Every time a Muslim in the West so much as sneezes the wrong way, it becomes headline news all over the world.

When others behave similarly, it barely makes it past the local news.

 

[Thoryalai Zazai]

Thank you for your elaborate reply.

That’s five minutes of my time I’ll never get back. Are you quite done with your whining already?

The last thing I wanted on this site was to have an open spat with an Indian before applauding Pakistanis, against whom we’re apparently involved in a strategic alliance. However, since you’ve asked for it by way of your adolescent attempts at a rebuke, I’ll be happy to respond in kind:

While I appreciate your attempt at arriving at a solution and your admission of Muslims sins of the past, I am afraid you have fallen into the same trap of other reformers of Islam, exonerating Islam itself while heaping blame on Muslims regardless of the fact that much of the inspiration for Muslim behavior is derived from their adherence to Sunnah.

Correction, a true Muslim adheres to the Quran and the non-abrogated sections of the previous scriptures, including the old and new Testaments that you are most welcome to quote from to support your argument. Furthermore, there’s truly no need for you to thank me for it, as I was never seeking your approval in the first place. In fact, I don’t care what you think, as I’m more concerned about the Muslim need to acknowledge past wrongs in order to rediscover our moral compass.


I would rather that you spare me from your patronising language and place your words where you mouth is and quote me on those sections of the Quran that support your tantrums. It should be pretty easy for you, as there are plenty of anti-Muslim polemics that abound in literature, be they in books or across the internet

Yes, you can hold Christianity responsible for intra-Christian wars, Chruch tyrannies and failures to deny colonialism, state sponsored racism, two world wars, and the rise of communism from within Christendom. The absoluteness of the Christian belief in the moral superiority of Christians versus the heathens and one true god and the sense of entitlement this bred set the ball rolling for the intolerance and the oppression of anyone who did not adhere to its precepts and the following church tyrannies, colonialism, racism, wars, and finally communism in opposition to the church.

Really? Defend your tantrum with quotations from the New Testament.

No you cannot hold Hinduism responsible for centuries of servitude. It did not willing of its own volition get its adherents into servitude. This was externally imposed. This was also resisted against throughout those centuries.

I hold the opinion that all men are responsible for their own actions. All facilitators of tyranny, by way of cowardice or deep seated envy towards a tyrant, deserve everything that's coming. As I am not a hypocrite, I equally accept that Afghanistan's descent into the abyss was earned by my people, as some of us embraced the tyranny of others by way of national betrayal and engaged in the mass-slaughter of our people, who in turn have earned our own victory against those murderers. Silly tantrums and pretensions to victimhood strike neither sympathy nor empathy from me.

Color of skin never mattered before the advent of Islam in India. All our heroes and gods are of dark shade and our standard of beauty indifferent to the skin tones as evident by the enormous corpus of ancient fresco's throughout the landscape where Hinduism prevailed. There is no racism in India based on skin tones.

Oh poor little Indian, I am so sorry for having forced your honourable people into adopting racism towards one another. Those vicious scoundrel Muslims had evidently nothing better to do than to force you into rewriting your own religion by imposing the Hindu Varna System (inappropriately mislabelled as the Portuguese “Caste System”). I also apologise for your brave countrymen who were dragged by their hair into imposing this system upon their own countrymen under the whip of Muslim prosecution. I’m especially sorry for my coreligionists having invented teleportation through time (now a forgotten ingenuity of ours), to manipulate your sacred texts by entering the following evil texts:

On the dark skinned Sudroids having been viewed as animals:

" Having killed a cat, an ichneumon, a blue jay, a frog, a dog, an iguana, an owl, or a corw, he shall perform the penance for the murder of a Sudra."

-- [ Manu IX.132 ]

" Elephants, horses, Sudras and contemptiable Mlecchas, lions, tigers, and boars form the middle dark condition"

-- [ Manu i.43 ] [ Muir I.41 ]


" Elephants, horses, Sudras and contemptiable Mlecchas, lions, tigers, and boars form the middle dark condition"

-- [ Manu i.43 ] [ Muir I.41 ]

" The murder of a Sudra by a Brahman is equal only to killing a cat or a frog or a cow "

[ Stat ] [ Wilk.248 ].

" A Sudra has no right even to listen to the Veda. Recitation of or listening to this sacred book is exclusively a privilege of the Aryan Hindus. There is provision of severe punishment for a Sudra, in case he dares to enjoy this privilege. If he "overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten lac or tin was to be poured into his mouth; if he repeated recitation of the Vedas, his tongue should be cut; and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces."

-- [ Tirth ]; cited in [ Stat ]


I am so sorry for all the above. The Muslim Al Beruni should have known better than to feign ignorance of his own co-religionists having planted their sinister plot against the noble Hindus by way of time teleportation:


" The Vaisya and the Sudra are not allowed to hear it [ the Veda ], much less to pronounce and recite it. If such a thing can be proved against one of them, the Brahmans drag him before the magistrate, and he is punished by having his tongue cut off ."

-- [ al-B.i.125 Ch.XII ]


On a serious note, let me be clear here…my call for the transformation of Islam demands a critical review of, followed by adherence to the Quran itself, while your religious revisionism is based on self-deception. Unlike you, I’m prepared to qualify my stance with reasonable references, pending an adult-like response from you (still waiting).

But the lack of any formal schools of thought among Muslims that understand and embrace the Enlightenment is because it is premised on submission and fear.

Really? Is that how Islam entered the populous island of Indonesia? How about converts to Islam within Liberal Democracies? In Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Ummayad Caliphate did bring Islam by the sword, even if it was in direct rebellion against the Quran. As deserved, they were fought against and defeated in Zabulistan, Kabulistan and in the Hindkush. Just like in Alexander’s time as per his letters to his mommy, our region experienced ongoing rebellions against the Arabs. This went on until the rise of an Afghan General – Abu Muslim Khorasani – taking the war into Syria to defeat the Umayyad Caliph therein. But alas, he could have renounced Islam as with that of other Afghans, but they all chose to retain it (even after Abu Muslim was assassinated by the envious Abbassids).

Whose reasoning and logic are you appealing to assist you in your fight against traditional Islam when you have already declared mankind as this abject failure?

In case you’ve missed it, my appeal was never directed at you.

US became a Constitutional Republic of its own volition based on the view of its own people (the majority). Make no mistake, it was not forced on it by its minorities. Any concession given was due to the sense of fair play on part of its majority.

…so errr.....what’s your point?

Your belief that power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts is not an universal truth.

This explains why your countrymen embrace servitude at every turn, be it to outsiders or that of your own kind.

Your argument premises that no magnanimity, no generosity of spirit, no fair mindedness, no self-reflection is possible at all for humanity when at the height of power. Yet as shown in this past century by America and Europe by their selfless sharing of the fruits of their labor in science and technology, by the Marshall plan they implemented in defeated Germany, by protection of Japan, and numerous other acts your premise does not hold.

Would somebody please give this kid a dummy? Bwaaa Haaaaa Haaaa Haaaa Haaaaa…

This has been the experience of all nations not ruled by Abrahamic religions too.

…sure…and the Brahmin Arians who descended from Afghanistan and imposed their Hindu Varna System to protect their light skins from contamination from the Aboriginals therein never took place!

Desperately poor overwhelmingly Hindu majority India gave equal rights and universal franchise to all adults irrespective of their religious or caste affiliation the moment it gained freedom. It did not require a revolt on the part of the lower castes, women, or the other minorities to be accorded equal rights.

Correction, you “gave” jack shit to your people. Rather - and as a credit to your leaders - you MAINTAINED a system you had inherited from your colonial masters. India is what it is today, because it’s a relatively Anglicised state that lives off borrowed institutions. No amount of pretensions to the contrary – such as changing the name of Bombay to Mumbai – will change anything. Even Ghandi - whom I respect for his stance against the British - selectively chose one language to appease the Westerners, and another to maintain the Hindu Varna System:

Gandhi was a typical upper caste Hindu racist (detested black Africans and staunchly supported caste) | Sanjeev Sabhlok's revolutionary blog

&

....I'm sure there lurked a Muslim holding a gun to his head.

I want good for you and your country. I wish for there to be peace, prosperity, freedom, and joy in Afghanistan. But given the faulty and uncharitable view of humanity itself that your thoughts are premised on, I do not know how much reformation and reinterpretation you can bring to Islam. Your own premises militates against your liberty.

I KNOW you don’t give a shit about Afghanistan and nor do I care for your good opinions or pretentious good will. We’ve already seen the noble intentions of Indians, when you sided with the wholesale Soviet slaughter of the Afghan population. Clearly, you were not motivated by what was good, but rather with what you viewed to be in your national interest. Our current partnership is based purely on mutual interest against a common enemy and nothing more. In fact, your people can hardly hide their joy at the site of seeing Muslims killing Muslims across the internet….but that’s perfectly ok, for we'll not let that come in the way of a noble fight for Afghanistan's sovereignty.


Hindus by nature are known to be an uncharitable people, unless they do so to serve a purpose. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone, for to Hindus the only people entitled to receive charity are the Brahmins:


No charity in Hinduism | Understanding Ramayana


But that too isn’t your fault, for evil Muslims by virtue of teleportation through time made sure that your noble scriptures couldn’t even define what evil truly is. After all, we had decided that if one cannot understand the nature of evil, then how are they ever supposed to appreciate all that is good in life? Here’s a piece from our charitable Christian cousins, whose assertions you are more than welcome to rebuke here:


Faith Defenders | Hinduism Exposed

So Islam eliminates class differences by dividing people into believers and nonbelievers? This is its definition of ALL? Islamic logic at work.

Does any school of thought not exercise differentiation between itself and those who’ve yet to acquire its teachings? I also deeply apologise for my people having forced Indians to differentiate themselves from the rest of mankind, when wearing their University qualifications even in their wedding invitations!

 

[Aepsilons]

There is a famous aphorism, "Perception is 90% of reality".

What matters is not the facts, but the media spin.

Every time a Muslim in the West so much as sneezes the wrong way, it becomes headline news all over the world.

When others behave similarly, it barely makes it past the local news.

The result of excessive liberalization !


Catholic Bishops Sued by ACLU for Not Allowing Abortion in Catholic Hospital

The ACLU sues to silence religions | New York Post

 

[Developereo]

Jews do not demand public displays, or government sponsorship, of their own religious symbols and practices.

That is not true.
Muslim calls for Shariah court typically rely on precedents set by other groups, including Canon law or Jewish law court.

As for Muslim populations in Europe, I already alluded to the complexity of the problem. As you noted, the Muslims in the US are not radicalized.

The fact is that most immigrants to any country like to keep a low profile and focus on economic development. The US has a welcoming culture, for the most part. Europe, by contrast, has a history of racial genocide and a very closed culture. Heck, even Eastern Europeans face discrimination and stereotypes in some Western European countries.

There is a lot of resentment against immigrants in many European countries -- getting worse with worsening economic conditions. Due to political correctness, that resentment gets bottled up except for one case: the media has made it politically acceptable to be bigoted against Muslims. So all the bottled up anger against immigrants in general, and government incompetence, gets channeled to the appointed scapegoat: Muslims.

This has a corresponding effect in the Muslim community, where radicals and hardliners find favor as defenders of the community. This has parallels in other communities around the world: when ethnic communities get ghettoized, gangsters and criminals rule the roost as territorial defenders from rival ethnic groups.

This cycle of intolerance and bigotry on both sides escalates which is what's happening in some parts of Europe. So, yes, there is a 'Muslim problem' in some European countries, but the fault lies on both sides.

 

[Contrarian]

That’s five minutes of my time I’ll never get back. Are you quite done with your whining already?

The last thing I wanted on this site was to have an open spat with an Indian before applauding Pakistanis, against whom we’re apparently involved in a strategic alliance. However, since you’ve asked for it by way of your adolescent attempts at a rebuke, I’ll be happy to respond in kind:




Correction, a true Muslim adheres to the Quran and the non-abrogated sections of the previous scriptures, including the old and new Testaments that you are most welcome to quote from to support your argument. Furthermore, there’s truly no need for you to thank me for it, as I was never seeking your approval in the first place. In fact, I don’t care what you think, as I’m more concerned about the Muslim need to acknowledge past wrongs in order to rediscover our moral compass.


I would rather that you spare me from your patronising language and place your words where you mouth is and quote me on those sections of the Quran that support your tantrums. It should be pretty easy for you, as there are plenty of anti-Muslim polemics that abound in literature, be they in books or across the internet



Really? Defend your tantrum with quotations from the New Testament.





I hold the opinion that all men are responsible for their own actions. All facilitators of tyranny, by way of cowardice or deep seated envy towards a tyrant, deserve everything that's coming. As I am not a hypocrite, I equally accept that Afghanistan's descent into the abyss was earned by my people, as some of us embraced the tyranny of others by way of national betrayal and engaged in the mass-slaughter of our people, who in turn have earned our own victory against those murderers. Silly tantrums and pretensions to victimhood strike neither sympathy nor empathy from me.





Oh poor little Indian, I am so sorry for having forced your honourable people into adopting racism towards one another. Those vicious scoundrel Muslims had evidently nothing better to do than to force you into rewriting your own religion by imposing the Hindu Varna System (inappropriately mislabelled as the Portuguese “Caste System”). I also apologise for your brave countrymen who were dragged by their hair into imposing this system upon their own countrymen under the whip of Muslim prosecution. I’m especially sorry for my coreligionists having invented teleportation through time (now a forgotten ingenuity of ours), to manipulate your sacred texts by entering the following evil texts:

On the dark skinned Sudroids having been viewed as animals:

" Having killed a cat, an ichneumon, a blue jay, a frog, a dog, an iguana, an owl, or a corw, he shall perform the penance for the murder of a Sudra."

-- [ Manu IX.132 ]

" Elephants, horses, Sudras and contemptiable Mlecchas, lions, tigers, and boars form the middle dark condition"

-- [ Manu i.43 ] [ Muir I.41 ]


" Elephants, horses, Sudras and contemptiable Mlecchas, lions, tigers, and boars form the middle dark condition"

-- [ Manu i.43 ] [ Muir I.41 ]

" The murder of a Sudra by a Brahman is equal only to killing a cat or a frog or a cow "

[ Stat ] [ Wilk.248 ].

" A Sudra has no right even to listen to the Veda. Recitation of or listening to this sacred book is exclusively a privilege of the Aryan Hindus. There is provision of severe punishment for a Sudra, in case he dares to enjoy this privilege. If he "overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten lac or tin was to be poured into his mouth; if he repeated recitation of the Vedas, his tongue should be cut; and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces."

-- [ Tirth ]; cited in [ Stat ]


I am so sorry for all the above. The Muslim Al Beruni should have known better than to feign ignorance of his own co-religionists having planted their sinister plot against the noble Hindus by way of time teleportation:


" The Vaisya and the Sudra are not allowed to hear it [ the Veda ], much less to pronounce and recite it. If such a thing can be proved against one of them, the Brahmans drag him before the magistrate, and he is punished by having his tongue cut off ."

-- [ al-B.i.125 Ch.XII ]


On a serious note, let me be clear here…my call for the transformation of Islam demands a critical review of, followed by adherence to the Quran itself, while your religious revisionism is based on self-deception. Unlike you, I’m prepared to qualify my stance with reasonable references, pending an adult-like response from you (still waiting).





Really? Is that how Islam entered the populous island of Indonesia? How about converts to Islam within Liberal Democracies? In Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Ummayad Caliphate did bring Islam by the sword, even if it was in direct rebellion against the Quran. As deserved, they were fought against and defeated in Zabulistan, Kabulistan and in the Hindkush. Just like in Alexander’s time as per his letters to his mommy, our region experienced ongoing rebellions against the Arabs. This went on until the rise of an Afghan General – Abu Muslim Khorasani – taking the war into Syria to defeat the Umayyad Caliph therein. But alas, he could have renounced Islam as with that of other Afghans, but they all chose to retain it (even after Abu Muslim was assassinated by the envious Abbassids).




In case you’ve missed it, my appeal was never directed at you.



…so errr.....what’s your point?




This explains why your countrymen embrace servitude at every turn, be it to outsiders or that of your own kind.




Would somebody please give this kid a dummy? Bwaaa Haaaaa Haaaa Haaaa Haaaaa…




…sure…and the Brahmin Arians who descended from Afghanistan and imposed their Hindu Varna System to protect their light skins from contamination from the Aboriginals therein never took place!



Correction, you “gave” jack shit to your people. Rather - and as a credit to your leaders - you MAINTAINED a system you had inherited from your colonial masters. India is what it is today, because it’s a relatively Anglicised state that lives off borrowed institutions. No amount of pretensions to the contrary – such as changing the name of Bombay to Mumbai – will change anything. Even Ghandi - whom I respect for his stance against the British - selectively chose one language to appease the Westerners, and another to maintain the Hindu Varna System:

Gandhi was a typical upper caste Hindu racist (detested black Africans and staunchly supported caste) | Sanjeev Sabhlok's revolutionary blog

&

....I'm sure there lurked a Muslim holding a gun to his head.



I KNOW you don’t give a shit about Afghanistan and nor do I care for your good opinions or pretentious good will. We’ve already seen the noble intentions of Indians, when you sided with the wholesale Soviet slaughter of the Afghan population. Clearly, you were not motivated by what was good, but rather with what you viewed to be in your national interest. Our current partnership is based purely on mutual interest against a common enemy and nothing more. In fact, your people can hardly hide their joy at the site of seeing Muslims killing Muslims across the internet….but that’s perfectly ok, for we'll not let that come in the way of a noble fight for Afghanistan's sovereignty.


Hindus by nature are known to be an uncharitable people, unless they do so to serve a purpose. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone, for to Hindus the only people entitled to receive charity are the Brahmins:


No charity in Hinduism | Understanding Ramayana


But that too isn’t your fault, for evil Muslims by virtue of teleportation through time made sure that your noble scriptures couldn’t even define what evil truly is. After all, we had decided that if one cannot understand the nature of evil, then how are they ever supposed to appreciate all that is good in life? Here’s a piece from our charitable Christian cousins, whose assertions you are more than welcome to rebuke here:


Faith Defenders | Hinduism Exposed





Does any school of thought not exercise differentiation between itself and those who’ve yet to acquire its teachings? I also deeply apologise for my people having forced Indians to differentiate themselves from the rest of mankind, when wearing their University qualifications even in their wedding invitations!

It would appear that you do not understand Hinduism. I would be very happy to clear every point that you have raised in this post. Please start a thread where we can discuss this further.

 

[Indrani]

That’s five minutes of my time I’ll never get back. Are you quite done with your whining already?
The last thing I wanted on this site was to have an open spat with an Indian before applauding Pakistanis, against whom we’re apparently involved in a strategic alliance. However, since you’ve asked for it by way of your adolescent attempts at a rebuke, I’ll be happy to respond in kind:

Firstly, I was not rebuking you. I was questioning you on the logic you follow

I would rather that you spare me from your patronising language and place your words where you mouth is and quote me on those sections of the Quran that support your tantrums. It should be pretty easy for you, as there are plenty of anti-Muslim polemics that abound in literature, be they in books or across the internet

I should not really have to given the frequency of observing Muslims referring to Mohammed's behaviors as the guidelines in accordance to which they should act. For eg. the story of the woman who used to throw dirty water/garbage on the prophet every day and his concern for her well being on the day she took ill and missed out on her act. However, since you ask here it is from a very pro-Islam site.

What is Sunnah? (the best guidance is the Sunnah of Muhammad (s.a.w)

“Your companion (Muhammad) is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he speak of his own desire. It is (only) the revelation with which he is inspired” (Surah An-Najm 53:2-4).

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah you have the most beautiful pattern of conduct” (Surah Al-Ahzab 33:21)

Whosoever obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allaah” (Surah An-Nisa 4:80)
“But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you (O’ Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept them with full submission” (Sura An-Nisa 4:65)
“It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decreed by Allaah and His Messenger to have any choice in the matter. If anyone disobeys Allaah and His Messenger he is clearly astray” (Surah Al-Ahzab 33:36)
“And remember the day when the wrongdoer will bite at his hand and say: ‘Oh! Would that I had taken the path of the Messenger’” (Surah Al-Furqan 25:27)
“On the day the faces will be tossed about in the fire, they will say: ‘Woe to us! Would that we had obeyed Allaah and his Messenger” (Surah Az-Zukhruf 43:67).

“Whoever obeys Allaah and his Messenger will be admitted to gardens beneath which rivers flow to live there (forever), and that will be the great achievement” (Surah An-Nisa 4:13)

Really? Defend your tantrum with quotations from the New Testament.

How typical and how literal. You should know the New Testament only builds on the foundation set on by the Old Testament and as such they are mostly complementary and contiguous and cannot be dismissed as irrelevant and following different principles.

Establishing contiguity of Old Testament and New Testament:

"The Old Testament is foundational; the New Testament builds on that foundation with further revelation from God. The Old Testament establishes principles that are seen to be illustrative of New Testament truths. The Old Testament contains many prophecies that are fulfilled in the New. The Old Testament provides the history of apeople; the New Testament focus is on aPerson. The Old Testament shows the wrath of God against sin (with glimpses of His grace); the New Testament shows the grace of God toward sinners (with glimpses of His wrath)."

Old Testament vs. New Testament - What are the differences?

One True God in Bible:

Quotes of One True God in New Testament.

• "It is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’" (Matthew 4:10)
• "There is one God; and there is no other but He." (Mark 12:32)
• "You believe that there is one God; you do well." (James 2:19)
• "Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one." (Galatians 3:20)
• "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men." (1 Timothy 2:5)

Unbelievers:

Here is what this site According to the Bible, is the true God absolutely One or a Trinity? has to say about unbelievers/worshippers of false god.

The Bible clearly teaches that there are slaves or worshipers of gods that are not real or false gods(Lesson-2G)and there are also the true worshipers of God (Lesson-2H). Thus, before any man could become a "true worshiper of God" or render valid service or worship to God, he should first be certain that it is the true God whom he will serve and worship, because punishment awaits those who do not know God and those who reject or refuse Christ's teachings which is the Gospel of Christ.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, (2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, NKJV)

In AD 391, the worship of other gods was made illegal.

Having set the Christians as children of True God deserving heaven and everyone else as destined for everlasting destruction, condoned slavery and racism, are you really surprised that it led to ostracizing of those not adhering to it.

I hold the opinion that all men are responsible for their own actions. All facilitators of tyranny, by way of cowardice or deep seated envy towards a tyrant, deserve everything that's coming. As I am not a hypocrite, I equally accept that Afghanistan's descent into the abyss was earned by my people, as some of us embraced the tyranny of others by way of national betrayal and engaged in the mass-slaughter of our people, who in turn have earned our own victory against those murderers. Silly tantrums and pretensions to victimhood strike neither sympathy nor empathy from me.

What silly tantrums? How is Hinduism responsible for the barbarity Muslims brought to the subcontinent? What cowardice when there are 80 million Hindu deaths as a testimony to the resistance the Muslims faced throughout their stay on the subcontinent. India stayed Hindu because Hindus fought back and won. Not traits of those who adore tyranny or have any deep seated envy towards a tyrant. They don't care much about your sympathy/empathy or lack of it.

Oh poor little Indian, I am so sorry for having forced your honourable people into adopting racism towards one another. Those vicious scoundrel Muslims had evidently nothing better to do than to force you into rewriting your own religion by imposing the Hindu Varna System (inappropriately mislabelled as the Portuguese “Caste System”). I also apologise for your brave countrymen who were dragged by their hair into imposing this system upon their own countrymen under the whip of Muslim prosecution. I’m especially sorry for my coreligionists having invented teleportation through time (now a forgotten ingenuity of ours), to manipulate your sacred texts by entering the following evil texts:
On the dark skinned Sudroids having been viewed as animals:
" Having killed a cat, an ichneumon, a blue jay, a frog, a dog, an iguana, an owl, or a corw, he shall perform the penance for the murder of a Sudra."
-- [ Manu IX.132 ]
" Elephants, horses, Sudras and contemptiable Mlecchas, lions, tigers, and boars form the middle dark condition"
-- [ Manu i.43 ] [ Muir I.41 ]
" Elephants, horses, Sudras and contemptiable Mlecchas, lions, tigers, and boars form the middle dark condition"
-- [ Manu i.43 ] [ Muir I.41 ]
" The murder of a Sudra by a Brahman is equal only to killing a cat or a frog or a cow "
[ Stat ] [ Wilk.248 ].
" A Sudra has no right even to listen to the Veda. Recitation of or listening to this sacred book is exclusively a privilege of the Aryan Hindus. There is provision of severe punishment for a Sudra, in case he dares to enjoy this privilege. If he "overheard a recitation of the Vedas, molten lac or tin was to be poured into his mouth; if he repeated recitation of the Vedas, his tongue should be cut; and if he remembered Vedic hymns, his body was to be torn into pieces."
-- [ Tirth ]; cited in [ Stat ]
I am so sorry for all the above. The Muslim Al Beruni should have known better than to feign ignorance of his own co-religionists having planted their sinister plot against the noble Hindus by way of time teleportation:
" The Vaisya and the Sudra are not allowed to hear it [ the Veda ], much less to pronounce and recite it. If such a thing can be proved against one of them, the Brahmans drag him before the magistrate, and he is punished by having his tongue cut off ."
-- [ al-B.i.125 Ch.XII ]
On a serious note, let me be clear here…my call for the transformation of Islam demands a critical review of, followed by adherence to the Quran itself, while your religious revisionism is based on self-deception. Unlike you, I’m prepared to qualify my stance with reasonable references, pending an adult-like response from you (still waiting).

First of all your passages just displays your ignorance of Hinduism. The main difference between Islam and Hinduism is this: Hinduism says "God IS everything." While Islam says "God MADE everything." See the difference. The universe itself is a manifestation of God according to Hinduism. Which means everything is divine and manifestation of God including animals, which are worshipped in Hinduism. Hence equating with animals or even inanimate objects is not an insult.

Next, Varna system has nothing to do with the color of anyone's skin. The notion of “colour” was a device of classification. Colours were frequently used as classifiers; e.g., the Vedic scripture known as theYajurveda is divided into two groups of texts, White and Black.

These four orders of society were called "varna", which has two meanings; first it means "color"; and second it means a "veil". As color it does not refer to the color of the skin of people, but to the qualities or energies of human nature. As a veil it shows the four different ways in which the Divine Self is hidden in human beings.

varna (Hinduism) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

BRIHADHAARANYAKA UPANISHAD: The nature of Brahmanas, Ksatriyas, Vaisyas, and Sudras are due to their respective inherent dispositions (guna).

Shudra: The Thamasa Guna has an opaque character indicating the nature of the Sudhras. Those possessed of it see things different from what they are. In other words, they are veiled by avidya (lack of knowledge and wisdom) and they are driven by inertia. It does not mean that they cannot know or they cannot do anything right. Quite the contrary. They can know and do excellent things but only at the bidding of others. The exquisite carvings of our cave temples and sculptures are done by Shudras. They do not have the initiative and they always get carried away. They band together among themselves. Qualities that can be exploited by others.

A saathwik person is calm and serene that he is able to see things clearly in front of him without help from another person. In contrast Thaamasa guna causes a person to become emotional that often causes a person to move away from reality. An emotional person is so engrossed with his own thoughts that causes him to miss what is real in front of him. An emotional person always look for a shoulder to cry or share his moment of joy. This is the cause of their gregariousness.

Animals are thaamasic and you see them in flocks. This is the way to understand the thaamasa guna. They all do things en masse.

A Shudra is the one who will build a great dam across a river for the benefit of humanity or will set fire to a bus full of college girls just because a certain politician told them to do so. They are a tremendous power by themselves, but because of their lack of discrimination, they are exploited or harvested by others.

Finally, go to Manusmriti, the laws of Manu, Chapter I by George Buhler | Hinduism Facts | Facts about Hindu Religion to read about real Manusmriti.

Frescos of Ajanta to illustrate the concept of beauty in Ancient India.

See no color difference between the maids and the Queen or the Gods.

Now let us come to Manu Smriti which seems to be the favorite of all Christian missionaries and Mullahs.

First of Hindus are not people of Book to strictly adhere to any Book. Nor do we find Hindus quoting from the Manu Smriti or the Vedas to conduct their lives. In all my life I have never seen the book called Manu Smriti and never seen or heard of anyone I know owning a copy of it.

Next, Manusmriti is a Smriti (Sanskrit: स्मृति, Smṛti, IPA:[s̪mr̩.t̪i]?) literally "that which is remembered," refers to a specific body of Hindureligiousscripture, and is a codified component of Hindu customary law. Smriti also denotes non-Sruti texts[1] and is generally seen as secondary in authority to Sruti. With regards to Hindu law, scholars have commonly translated Smriti as “tradition”. Although Smriti is also considered a written source; it differs from Sruti in that Smriti does not have divine origins.

Now while you are welcome to critically review and call for transformation of Islam, your expectation that Hinduism also needs such revision is really unreasonable. It is not Hinduism or Hindus who are the cause of misery in this world. Hindus of their own have been very alert and active in removing any and all distortions that crept into their traditions for centuries now. Caste system is already on its way out.

Really? Is that how Islam entered the populous island of Indonesia? How about converts to Islam within Liberal Democracies? In Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Ummayad Caliphate did bring Islam by the sword, even if it was in direct rebellion against the Quran. As deserved, they were fought against and defeated in Zabulistan, Kabulistan and in the Hindkush. Just like in Alexander’s time as per his letters to his mommy, our region experienced ongoing rebellions against the Arabs. This went on until the rise of an Afghan General – Abu Muslim Khorasani – taking the war into Syria to defeat the Umayyad Caliph therein. But alas, he could have renounced Islam as with that of other Afghans, but they all chose to retain it (even after Abu Muslim was assassinated by the envious Abbassids).

What has Islams entering of Indonesia to do with its lack of any formal schools of thought among Muslims that understand and embrace the Enlightenment? The people converted to Islam because the King did, a case of blindly following the leader. They certainly did not embrace Islam because they understood the religion. For all practical purposes they retained the Hindu culture and to date follow it including Idolatory. The only province which actually follows Islam in strict accordance with Islam and Shariah is Aceh which is always in news for one or other mischief.

I will chalk up the rest of the wars you wrote of as the usual Muslim stuff. The war lords retained Islam because it provides them with the justification for war, the very element they live for.

In case you’ve missed it, my appeal was never directed at you

Oh phuleese.

Given this, we’re all best advised to help rather than to hinder other people’s intentions to fight the good fight. It’s up to you and the American I’ve addressed here to make the right choice.

…so errr.....what’s your point?

The point was the generosity of Majority. In your eagerness to absolve Islam, you made a case that only national failures fostered the realization in Muslims for the NEED to review our dilemmas and reflect upon our scriptures to understand where we’ve went wrong. I just showed you it does not require failure to get one to do so. That other people and cultures have demonstrated time and again that even in success and triumph, they are generous enough to share the fruits of their success. That tyranny of Majority is not an inevitable conclusion when majorities of their own volition have relinquished their powers and devolved it to be inclusive of all sections of the society equitably.

This explains why your countrymen embrace servitude at every turn, be it to outsiders or that of your own kind.

Err, we are a sovereign country and it is not our land that is under occupation. Given we have been an unbroken contiguous self-ruled civilization for the last 9-10 millenniums, I think we can safely put the dark ages brought by Muslims to India or what you refer as servitude of Hindus as an aberration rather than rule.

Would somebody please give this kid a dummy? Bwaaa Haaaaa Haaaa Haaaa Haaaaa…

Haaaa Haaaa, are you not banking on the same magnanimity to help you out with funds. Let me quote you.

The solution to a multi-national political enemy is by way of a multi-national political confrontation. This requires the development of a clear Manifesto, aided by funding, planning and execution, at least initially independent of all Muslim Governments that have their heads buried in the sand.

…sure…and the Brahmin Arians who descended from Afghanistan and imposed their Hindu Varna System to protect their light skins from contamination from the Aboriginals therein never took place!

More self-deluding fairy tales.

Correction, you “gave” jack shit to your people. Rather - and as a credit to your leaders - you MAINTAINED a system you had inherited from your colonial masters. India is what it is today, because it’s a relatively Anglicised state that lives off borrowed institutions. No amount of pretensions to the contrary – such as changing the name of Bombay to Mumbai – will change anything. Even Ghandi - whom I respect for his stance against the British - selectively chose one language to appease the Westerners, and another to maintain the Hindu Varna System:

LOL. You know jackshit about India. Discrimination based on caste system was outlawed by constitution right after independence. In fact the man who framed our constitution was the so call "untouchable." Yeah that is how much India cared about its people. We the people of this nation decided which system to follow. So as you said man is responsible for his actions, Indians were responsible for the flourishing of the constitutional democracy in India. Not the British.

What Gandhi believed or did not is not my concern. He is not our prophet. As I have already established, you hardly understand Hinduism, let alone are qualified to speak about it.

I KNOW you don’t give a shit about Afghanistan and nor do I care for your good opinions or pretentious good will. We’ve already seen the noble intentions of Indians, when you sided with the wholesale Soviet slaughter of the Afghan population. Clearly, you were not motivated by what was good, but rather with what you viewed to be in your national interest. Our current partnership is based purely on mutual interest against a common enemy and nothing more. In fact, your people can hardly hide their joy at the site of seeing Muslims killing Muslims across the internet….but that’s perfectly ok, for we'll not let that come in the way of a noble fight for Afghanistan's sovereignty.

To be sure, we do not like Islam and we are very upfront about it, but to state that we desired destruction of Afghan population is stupidity. Anyways it is not like I have any better expectation of Islamic ignoramus.

Hindus by nature are known to be an uncharitable people, unless they do so to serve a purpose. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone, for to Hindus the only people entitled to receive charity are the Brahmins:

More Mullah wisdom on display.

But that too isn’t your fault, for evil Muslims by virtue of teleportation through time made sure that your noble scriptures couldn’t even define what evil truly is. After all, we had decided that if one cannot understand the nature of evil, then how are they ever supposed to appreciate all that is good in life? Here’s a piece from our charitable Christian cousins, whose assertions you are more than welcome to rebuke here:
Faith Defenders | Hinduism Exposed

Yup that is why Christians are dumping Christianity and Muslims involved in mass slaughter of their own. All because they understand the nature of evil and are involved in eliminating evil.

Do some yoga and see if peace and wisdom knocks on your door.

Does any school of thought not exercise differentiation between itself and those who’ve yet to acquire its teachings? I also deeply apologise for my people having forced Indians to differentiate themselves from the rest of mankind, when wearing their University qualifications even in their wedding invitations!

Yup those who have not acquired its teachings are deserving of hellfire and to be dhimmis.

So what does wearing university qualifications on wedding invitation indicate? That those who do not have such qualifications are not invited to marriage or will be served in a different section different food? Or may be for the day they will have to become dhimmis of the newly wed?

You do understand difference between idiosyncrasies and outright discrimination, don't ya? I guess it is too much to expect.

 

[Screambowl]

they know that Islam is not a threat to them, the day they feel, no one is more barbaric. They are very loyal to the Emperor there.