Can Indonesia Lead ASEAN?

[Filipino]

the philippines has always considered indonesia a friend, i'm sure our country would be happy to see indonesia lead ASEAN as a good example. the only country in ASEAN that could possibly not be okay with indonesian leadership is malaysia, but surely there's less bad blood nowadays than before

 

[S10]

Most of the rich peoples in Vietnam are Chinese or half Chinese. I have relatives there and go there quite often.

I don't like the Chinese in South East Asia much. My dad used to work as a hotel manager that specialized in receiving oversea Chinese guests, especially businessmen. The wealthy Chinese from that region are quite arrogant in his own words.

 

[Minjitta]

China doesn't want to lead ASEAN, looking at past and present indicators, the ASEAN countries are not an after thought, but it is but one small part of the puzzle, and all China wants is for it to be peaceful and cooperative. So that we can spare more attention to the rest of the world.

China wants no colonies but tributary states, states that would bow to our supremacy, but still independent enough that we don't have to do anything for you.

This has more or less maintained peace for thousands of years, while in the west any attempts at peace failed and wars raged forever until a similar system where the US reign supreme happened.

So say what you will, unless there's one dominate power that can dictate things somewhat fairly, you will have problems.

IF Indonesia wants to lead? Fine, it's big enough to do so, probably, but instead of standing up to China, Indo should look to improve ties with China and be the dominate player in the region.

US is outside intruder, eventually China will be strong enough to push them out, that's not a predication, that's just fact. The only argument that one can make that wouldn't support this, is Chinese are inferior to Americans as a people, period, no reason, just is. And if that's your reason, then....

Arguments are fine, but if you fight a bigger guy, there's a certain zone you don't go into, there's a certain things that you don't say, unless you really want to get killed.

Just that thousand years old mentality would not work in today environment. With "bow to our supremacy" is enough for other countries concerns.

 

[Viet]

I'm just replying in your logic that when a country "invest" in another country they technically "own" said country

You seems to forgot to check that the US is still the biggest investor in Indonesia. So does that mean we're the property of the US?

Singapore is not a leader material in many ways. Singapore for once is a city state so their political reach is extremely limited, they can help a country financially, but other than that you're pretty much asking a banker to be leader.

Beside I haven't seen Singapore step up to help the organization.

You must be out of Vietnam for some time. The Country really is poor. Its labor force is much cheaper than anything in the region. My uncle even set up a factory there to escape the labor strike in the country demanding fair wages. God bless Communism for Cheap labor.

you are delusional. I´m afraid many Indonesians are too. I know what I´m talking about as I traveled many times into the region, including to Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, HongKong, Thailand and Indonesia. You are free to think what you like or you love to look down on us Vietnam. There is an old saying in Vietnam: "it is not necessary to educate a fool".

Again, in order to become a leader, you Indonesia must have some sorts of major impacts (e.i. economics, investments, military, diplomacy, cultures, education system, people, ect...) on other ASEAN members and beyond. In reality, your impact is small or virtually nonexistent.

For example, how much is the economic footprint of Indonesia (if compare to Singapore) in Vietnam? in the first 11 months of this year Indonesia invests $31.4ml, while Singapore more than $3bl. The amount of Indonesia is even lower of Brunei ($39.6ml).

At present Vietnam invites Singaporians businesses to invest and turn the Phu Quoc island (Gulf of Thailand) into a second Singapore. I hope we can realise the plan soon. You can look down on Singapore as you please, but that does not change the reality: Singapore is rich, has money and expertise capacity, while Indonesia not.

Another example: What happens to Indonesia´s education system? on the recent PISA test, you are at the bottem, while Vietnam ranks higher than some developed countries!

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

you are delusional. I´m afraid many Indonesians are too. I know what I´m talking about as I traveled many times into the region, including to Vietnam, Singapore, Malaysia, HongKong, Thailand and Indonesia. You are free to think what you like or you love to look down on us Vietnam. There is an old saying in Vietnam: "it is not necessary to educate a fool".

Again, in order to become a leader, you Indonesia must have some sorts of major impacts (e.i. economics, investments, military, diplomacy, cultures, education system, people, ect...) on other ASEAN members and beyond. In reality, your impact is small or virtually nonexistent.

For example, how much is the economic footprint of Indonesia (if compare to Singapore) in Vietnam? in the first 11 months of this year Indonesia invests $31.4ml, while Singapore more than $3bl. The amount of Indonesia is even lower of Brunei ($39.6ml).

At present Vietnam invites Singaporians businesses to invest and turn the Phu Quoc island (Gulf of Thailand) into a second Singapore. I hope we can realise the plan soon. You can look down on Singapore as you please, but that does not change the reality: Singapore is rich, has money and expertise capacity, while Indonesia not.

Whose insulting whose country. When did I ever did that? Go ahead check my comment. Beside I though you the hate Communist Government in Vietnam? Its Economic policy is the reason why Vietnam is lagging behind the six.

All I'm saying is that Vietnam is the lowest of the Six which is true & you reply that only a "fool" trust the "official" report. Even though its called "official" for a reason.

Deny all you want, numbers don't lie.

Don't ever say I insult Singapore. Of all the country in ASEAN its only Singapore that I truly respect. while others... Well lets not get to that. Singapore is more successful than my country that's for sure. In PPP, HDI & FDI, but does Economic power always translate into political? That's the question I'm asking.

I already said Singapore lacks the motive to lead the Group. It can lead, but does that mean they can actually do a good job at it? Indonesia IS already the natural leader of ASEAN. Can Singapore managed to do what Indonesian did after Cambodia's summit?

We might not have money like Singapore, but we have the most powerful weapon called Diplomacy. Who else can do what Indonesia did in the region & beyond?

Who help ease the Thai-Cambodia border skirmish by sending unarmed observer?

Who help Myanmar transition into a Democracy?

Who propose a code of conduct for the SCS after the debacle at Cambodia?

Singapore is great, but as a "leader" for this clusterfuck of a group you need more than money.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

The importance of being Indonesia

Pallavi Aiyar
Comment · print · T+

QUIET DIPLOMAT: Indonesia’s new international stature was on show at the APEC forum this year. Photo: AP

Indonesia can talk from a position of confidence to everyone, from its ASEAN cousins to western powers, and also countries such as Egypt and Tunisia
In a continent dominated by behemoths like China and India, the archipelago of Indonesia can sometimes find itself in the shade. But increasingly, this populous, Muslim-majority democracy is feeling confident enough to assert its presence on the international stage — and with good cause.

It is South-East Asia’s largest economy and has been averaging a brisk growth of 6 per cent in recent years. With a youthful population of over 240 million people and a burgeoning middle class, the country’s transition from military dictatorship to vibrant democracy has put paid to notions that Islam and democratic values cannot coexist. Moreover, while size gives it clout, Indonesia does not have direct stakes in the rivalries that roil the region. It is therefore a natural choice for the crucial role of mediator in a neighbourhood increasingly shaped and squeezed by China’s rise on the one hand, and the United States’ “pivot” to the region, on the other.

At the high table

Indonesia’s new international stature was on display in October when, in a two week-period, President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono played host to Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott, Chinese President Xi Jinping, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and South Korean President Park Geun-hye, in between hosting leaders from Russia to Japan at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) forum held in Bali. Mr. Yudhoyono’s foreign policy formulation of “a thousand friends and zero enemies” suddenly appeared to be more than overheated rhetoric.

The APEC summit was immediately followed by more summitry in Brunei as the East Asia Summit and the ASEAN Plus Three meetings got under way. The issue du jour at all of these meets was the one where Indonesia’s bridge-building skills are most needed and have been most obviously on display: the South China Sea.

With fierce disputes breaking out between an ascendant China and many of ASEAN’s 10 members, notably Vietnam and the Philippines, it is Indonesia that has emerged as the soother of ruffled feathers. It nods understandingly at the concerns of all parties, while nudging them towards dialogue.

Last year, tensions within ASEAN reached a high when for the first time in the group’s history, a meeting of Foreign Ministers failed to yield a joint communiqué. The issue behind the split was China’s actions in the South China Sea. Those members with disputes in the waters themselves — Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, supported by Singapore and Thailand — rooted for the voicing of serious concerns over Beijing’s “belligerence” in enforcing its claims over the Spratly, Paracel and other islands and atolls. However, non-claimants, mainly Cambodia supported by Laos, were loath to alienate China and refused to countenance any measures that Beijing would object to.

With ASEAN in crisis, the Indonesian Foreign Minister began flying from regional capital to capital, to mend the rift. Eventually, all ASEAN members were persuaded to agree that the best course of action would be the formulation of a code of conduct (CoC) between ASEAN and China, on how to manage disputes in the waters, a position backed by the United States.

Even more impressively, Indonesia was able to persuade Beijing to somewhat modify its traditional stance that any CoC be negotiated bilaterally, rather than multilaterally with ASEAN. China has agreed to consider the possibility of multilateral talks. It is a vague commitment, but one that has served to tamp down tensions — which was Indonesia’s main goal.

As Dr. Evi Fitriani, head of the International Relations department, University of Indonesia, says, “We are aware that we cannot solve the dispute, but we can help manage it.” With no obvious dog in the fight, Jakarta has ably exploited its unique position, persuading everyone from China, and other ASEAN members, to the U.S., to heed its efforts as an honest broker.

In Myanmar

Indonesia’s foreign policy USP (unique selling point) is low-profile diplomacy that seeks to nudge rather than demand. And it prefers the back door to the limelight. She cites other examples of this “quiet diplomacy.” Jakarta played a crucial role in easing tensions between Cambodia and Thailand in their border dispute over the area surrounding the 11th-century Preah Vihear Temple. It eventually sent in a team of observers to monitor the territory.

Again, Indonesia has played a quiet, advisory role to Myanmar as the latter attempts a democratic transition from military dictatorship to democracy, which in many ways mirrors Indonesia’s own transformation 15 years ago. “We don’t carry a megaphone about it, but both state and non-state actors from Indonesia and Myanmar have been in close contact,” says Dr. Fitriani.

Experiences

Indonesia derives its diplomatic strength from its own experiences. As a Muslim-majority country that has made a successful, if difficult, transition to democracy it can talk and make suggestions, from a position of confidence, to everyone. These range from its ASEAN cousins to western powers like the U.S., and even countries like Egypt and Tunisia as they struggle in the aftermath of the Arab Spring.

Since 2008, Indonesia has held the Bali Democracy Forum, an annual meeting that seeks to strengthen democracy in Asia. This kind of preaching is more often undertaken by prescriptive actors like the European Union. But since it comes from another Asian country, participants, even the less-democratically inclined among them, tend to be more open to listening than might be imagined. “We share the same culture and problems as other Asian countries which makes our opinion more relevant to them, than lectures from European countries who have a completely different context,” agrees Dr. Fitriani.

As a result, Indonesia has calibrated, without breaching the principle of non-interference in the affairs of other countries, usually a red line in this part of the world. It has emerged as the country that talks most forthrightly about issues like human rights. It was instrumental in pushing through the 2012 ASEAN Human Rights Declaration, although the final outcome was weaker than many hoped for.

Challenges

Compared to Asia’s largest powers, China and India, Indonesia’s foreign policy is subtle. China is widely perceived to be nationalistic and aggressive, a goliath with a club in one hand and contracts for lucrative trade deals in the other. This is a strategy that might win it some accomplices but few lasting friends. India’s arrogance and inflated sense of its self makes it a reluctant and less-than-effective actor in multilateral fora. Indonesia, however, seeks strength in alliances and valorises mediation away from the spotlight.

Of course the country is not without its challenges. It is difficult to be everyone’s friend in a polarised world. Were conflict to break out in the South China Sea, for example, Indonesia’s policy of equidistance would no longer work. Moreover, a worsening domestic track record, with the economy in a slump, and accusations of growing intolerance against minorities, will rob it of the hard-won moral authority it has gained over the last decade. Testing times lie ahead for the region’s quiet diplomat.

The importance of being Indonesia - The Hindu

 

[Fattyacids]

Whose insulting whose country. When did I ever did that? Go ahead check my comment. Beside I though you the hate Communist Government in Vietnam? Its Economic policy is the reason why Vietnam is lagging behind the six.

All I'm saying is that Vietnam is the lowest of the Six which is true & you reply that only a "fool" trust the "official" report. Even though its called "official" for a reason.

Deny all you want, numbers don't lie.

Don't ever say I insult Singapore. Of all the country in ASEAN its only Singapore that I truly respect. while others... Well lets not get to that. Singapore is more successful than my country that's for sure. In PPP, HDI & FDI, but does Economic power always translate into political? That's the question I'm asking.

I already said Singapore lacks the motive to lead the Group. It can lead, but does that mean they can actually do a good job at it? Indonesia IS already the natural leader of ASEAN. Can Singapore managed to do what Indonesian did after Cambodia's summit?

We might not have money like Singapore, but we have the most powerful weapon called Diplomacy. Who else can do what Indonesia did in the region & beyond?

Who help ease the Thai-Cambodia border skirmish by sending unarmed observer?

Who help Myanmar transition into a Democracy?

Who propose a code of conduct for the SCS after the debacle at Cambodia?

Singapore is great, but as a "leader" for this clusterfuck of a group you need more than money.

The strength of "diplomacy" comes from economic clout, military power and international stature of the country. Indonesia has none of it. Singapore has the economic power, its stature and recognition is the highest among ASEAN. It is also a role model for development and good governance. Among ASEAN, Singapore is the most qualified.

That said, no country can lead ASEAN. It is neither a NATO nor an EU. It's just an association to promote trade and cooperation. The differences and economic disparity among ASEAN members are far too great for it to find common grounds and work as one entity.

 

[cnleio]

The strength of "diplomacy" comes from economic clout, military power and international stature of the country. Indonesia has none of it. Singapore has the economic power, its stature and recognition is the highest among ASEAN. It is also a role model for development and good governance. Among ASEAN, Singapore is the most qualified.

That said, no country can lead ASEAN. It is neither a NATO nor an EU. It's just an association to promote trade and cooperation. The differences and economic disparity among ASEAN members are far too great for it to find common grounds and work as one entity.

U forget population numbers & natural resources, a POWERFUL leader must be BIG(lands) enough. In the ASEAN Indonesia has all conditions to become a future powerful country, but they still need peaceful economy development.

Next 15-20 years Indonesia can surpass Singapore.

 

[Fattyacids]

U forget population numbers & natural resources, a POWERFUL leader must be BIG(lands) enough.

Yes, that's a factor. But unless the strength in number and resources are well utilized to empower itself, it is just another India(population) or Africa (resources)

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

The strength of "diplomacy" comes from economic clout, military power and international stature of the country. Indonesia has none of it. Singapore has the economic power, its stature and recognition is the highest among ASEAN. It is also a role model for development and good governance. Among ASEAN, Singapore is the most qualified.

Yet no country in ASEAN ever request Singapore to "fix" their problem or actively trying resolve some issues with the group. There's a reason why both Thai & Cambodia only accept an observer from Indonesia. The reason is they both have a friendly relation toward Indonesia.

That said, no country can lead ASEAN. It is neither a NATO nor an EU. It's just an association to promote trade and cooperation. The differences and economic disparity among ASEAN members are far too great for it to find common grounds and work as one entity.

Exactly its a clusterfuck collection of country. No one can. I like Bismarck prefer the idea of Klein ASEAN where there should be only 3 member in the group. Indonesia, Malaysia & Singapore.

 

[Fattyacids]

Yet no country in ASEAN ever request Singapore to "fix" their problem or actively trying resolve some issues with the group. There's a reason why both Thai & Cambodia only accept an observer from Indonesia. The reason is they both have a friendly relation toward Indonesia.

No country is able to fix another country's problem. The country that was asked can't even fix its own problem. There's a reason why Singapore always come across as a wise and prudent among ASEAN countries.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

No country is able to fix another country's problem. The country that was asked can't even fix its own problem. There's a reason why Singapore always come across as a wise and prudent.

We're more like a trusted middle man. Rather than a wise sage.

As Dr. Evi Fitriani, head of the International Relations department, University of Indonesia, says, “We are aware that we cannot solve the dispute, but we can help manage it.” With no obvious dog in the fight, Jakarta has ably exploited its unique position, persuading everyone from China, and other ASEAN members, to the U.S., to heed its efforts as an honest broker.

You can't actually "lead" ASEAN. All you can is prod a stick to it and hope it go to where your pointing.

 

[Viet]

Deny all you want, numbers don't lie.

according to this figure, the people of the Philippines are better off than the Vietnamese. Congrat to the Pinoys. I just wonder why poverty is still widespread in the Philippines?

 

[Viet]

No country is able to fix another country's problem. The country that was asked can't even fix its own problem. There's a reason why Singapore always come across as a wise and prudent among ASEAN countries.

If ASEAN needs a leader, then Singapore is qualified for the job. She outperforms all others in every fields: strong economy, great education system, good governance, first class infrastructure, well-trained/financed military, stable society, good diplomacy etc.. Where is Indonesia? Nowhere.

Small but beautiful. That is Singapore.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

If ASEAN needs a leader, then Singapore is qualified for the job. She outperforms all others in every fields: strong economy, great education system, good governance, first class infrastructure, well-trained/financed military, stable society, good diplomacy etc.. Where is Indonesia? Nowhere.

Small but beautiful. That is Singapore.

The Helvetic Confederation is also a small, beautiful and well managed country, in many aspects much better than even Germany. Can it lead the EU (I know, they are not part of the EU but strongly integrated.)?