Can India & Pakistan come out of the spiral of mutual destruction ?

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

10 years.

Not because the enmity between both is going to reduce but because the smaller one is going to figure out its not economically viable to afford enmity with the bigger one.

Which is why the "bigger one" receives famine relief from sub-Sahara African nations such as Kenya...........:

COVID-19 relief | Kenya donates 12 tonnes of food products to India

The east African country has sent 12 tonnes of tea, coffee and groundnut produced locally to the Indian Red Cross Society.

www.google.co.uk

seeing the destruction in Europe and the never ending animosity between our 2 countries, I was wondering whether the lessons of Europe can result in our 2 countries overcoming fixed positions, like Pakistan's kashmir only policy , and aim for normal relations between us ?
Why I mention kashmir is because India has no such single condition for normalcy.
We are just wasting the resources of 2 impoverished countries on a arms race .

NO. NEVER!...........Thankfully!

 

[.King.]

Oh, I seem to have got it back to front. Yes, it was faulty, and still is. How does that concern us? Let us assume that in terms of conceptualising what a country is for they can't work their way out of a paper bag. How does it concern us?

Lots of ways, could name a few. Pakistani meddling in the internal affairs of India on the basis of the idea that it is some sort of "protector" of muslims in the subcontinent, stemming from the same idea that created pakistan (Need for a separate entity to safeguard interests).

Kashmir, Jamnagar etc is rather clear why they are related to this. The idea that any existence of muslims as a minority will be by defat a situation of exploitation, leading to their support for other separatist movements as well.

It does concern us a lot if our nation was split into two parts on a faulty ideology, an ideology that is being utilised to compromise Indian interests.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

seeing the destruction in Europe and the never ending animosity between our 2 countries, I was wondering whether the lessons of Europe can result in our 2 countries overcoming fixed positions, like Pakistan's kashmir only policy , and aim for normal relations between us ?
Why I mention kashmir is because India has no such single condition for normalcy.
We are just wasting the resources of 2 impoverished countries on a arms race .

Only full destruction of India will bring peace to South Asia.

All SAARC countries need to unite and work with China to completely annihilate India.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

It's no more Pakistan vs. India, this got to be on the sidelines now.

It's now more like India, of the liberals, seculars, open minded Versus the Bharat, of Hindutvadis, Sanghs, Senas, and/or the likes of RSS, VHP, Sangh Parivar etc.



The exact meaning of the “idea of Bharat” is available in a note by Ramakant Tiwari, co-convenor of the Delhi BJP Intellectual Cell. Titled “Idea of Bharat supercedes idea of India’’, the note explains how the “idea of Bharat” draws on India’s ancient cultural heritage, symbolised by dharma, shakti, the guru-shishya parampara, maya, rebirth, the primacy of Sanskrit and the scriptures, teertha (pilgrimages), and the Kumbh Mela. Bharat was the rashtra chosen by Brahma for his incarnations, including the Buddha, writes Tiwari.

This, then, is the original genius of India. Compare that to the “malevolent” “idea of India”, traced by Tiwari not to our “first PM J L Nehru’’, but to Lord Macaulay. This “malafide” foreign idea replaced our decentralised, dharma-based, democratic civilisation where “honoured visitors” were welcomed and assimilated. What we got instead was centralised planning, invaders, “selfish identities intruding from all corners of the world’’, contrived phrases such as “unity in diversity”, the “conspiracy of secularism” replacing sarva dharma sama bhava, cowardice as ahimsa, subservience as “tolerance” and socialism/communism replacing our own arthashastra.


It is clear that the “idea of Bharat” is not merely an exclusively Hindu view of the country but an “upper caste” one. The British destroyed our ancient gurukuls which guaranteed 100 per cent literacy, says Tiwari. Surely he means 100 per cent “upper caste” literacy?

India Versus Bharat

Electoral compromises of BJP indicate that idea of India has prevailed over Bharat

indianexpress.com

 

[Wood]

Ethno-nationalism does not exactly mean secessionist movement - its more about ethnic pride, culture etc
which means for you your blood comes before religion, political view etc

Yes, I understand. But secessionist moves are clear and obvious indicators of ethno-nationalism in subcontinent.

The second part of post is more of what you are trying to say. The fact that all Indian states that have more than 20% of minority population is religiously polarized is to me a clear indicator of the absence of ethno-nationalism. You'll see that BJP does well in all these states.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Lots of ways, could name a few. Pakistani meddling in the internal affairs of India on the basis of the idea that it is some sort of "protector" of muslims in the subcontinent, stemming from the same idea that created pakistan (Need for a separate entity to safeguard interests).

Kashmir, Jamnagar etc is rather clear why they are related to this. The idea that any existence of muslims as a minority will be by defat a situation of exploitation, leading to their support for other separatist movements as well.

It does concern us a lot if our nation was split into two parts on a faulty ideology, an ideology that is being utilised to compromise Indian interests.

Pakistan was created because Pakistanis are a different race and religion to indians and we both hate eachother.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

This is not possible for the foreseeable future. I'll resist from saying 'never' because no one could predict the future. Neither India nor Pakistan is guaranteed to exist forever.

South Asian population is as religiously polarized. This will not easily allow for peace between the two countries.

Peace will comeback to South Asia only after colonial powers make a comeback to South Asia.

 

[Wood]

Peace will comeback to South Asia only after colonial powers make a comeback to South Asia.

You might as well say "when pigs can fly"

 

[SIPRA]

Not possible, until a just resolution of Kashmir issue is in place.

 

[.King.]

Pakistan was created because Pakistanis are a different race and religion to indians and we both hate eachother.

Nah lol. That is just out right false. You can argue that some parts are not Indic, but most of pakistan is Indic in race (Punjab, Sindh, parts of Baloch). Religion you can claim to be the core difference, between Islam in Pakistan and Secularism in India.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Yes, I understand. But secessionist moves are clear and obvious indicators of ethno-nationalism in subcontinent.

The second part of post is more of what you are trying to say. The fact that all Indian states that have more than 20% of minority population is religiously polarized is to me a clear indicator of the absence of ethno-nationalism. You'll see that BJP does well in all these states.

Hindi people are not ethno-nats because they are real/historical India and are in power - I guess lack of ethno-nationalism is more because of these reasons than any other reason
Its like a white man in US (ill explain it - its not because of money and privilege )

 

[MultaniGuy]

Never, because Kashmir dispute needs to be solved in a fair manner.

That fair manner is Plebiscite to be held to determine the future of Kashmir dispute.

 

[Wood]

ganges/hindi people are not ethno-nats because they are proper/historical India and are in power - I guess lack of ethno-nationalism is more because of these reasons than any other reason

Yes, perhaps so. In a democratic India, the 'proper' India (as you say) will always remain in power because of the burgeoning population of the area. In the current decade, the parliamentary seats in that belt is expected to double because of delimitation. The entire southern peninsula will soon become as irrelevant to central politics as the north east. This eventuality will only serve to reinforce my view on this matter

 

[Ensiurage]

Turkey will lead the campaign against Israel with its ally. India and Pak will fight Multi front war. one third population will be wiped out on both sides

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Nah lol. That is just out right false. You can argue that some parts are not Indic, but most of pakistan is Indic in race (Punjab, Sindh, parts of Baloch). Religion you can claim to be the core difference, between Islam in Pakistan and Secularism in India.

Less than 5% of indians have ANY racial or genetic connection with Pakistanis. So at least 95% of indians have NO racial or genetic link to Pakistan or Pakistanis WHATSOEVER.