Can China’s Top Guns Fly?

[UKBengali]

Another dumb clueless Indian

Comparing China to India is like comparing Germany to Poland

 

[Beast]

USN uses hawkeye,the air force doesn't noob.If u think there is no difference in naval and air operations ur hopeless.Sweden uses it to save money and because it has no active enemies.Its effective only has a purely defensive platform monitoring ur own airspace from deep,in a aggressive war the type that china wants to wage.These are useless sitting ducks.

As to the transport fleet,the c-17 has actually entered service in case u didn't know.
EXaclty for AWACVS its similar numbers of actual quality AWACS.

My point was never to say IAF has advantage over PLAAF,a much bigger force.It was that it can deter any aggression and sever PLA supply lines.And that PLAAF doesn't have any quality advantage over us.While ur talking about the other planes u still fail to mention u have nothing comparable to 200 mkis and further 70 coming.
On the human pilot training thing,lower flying hours,political commisars,no exrecises..the same old story.

My point is not that IAF is superior to PLAAF,but that PLAAF has zero quality advantage over IAF and if it thinks it can just roll over the 'inferior' indians its in for a rude shock coz its nowhere near as good it thinks it is.China's main strength/advantage is its army not air force.And an army needs supplies.

That is a baseless personal claim... Defensive? Then perhap Sweden shall build more ground radar instead of those Erieye since they are so defensive. China is mostly land lock country. I see no reason why Turboprop AWACS is useless. Sending those into nearby foreign territories for mission is perfect use. Turboprop has good endurance. Just because China build them so they become sitting duck?

As for your C-17, I heard its only June they will arrive. Not yet. Plus it will induct fully over a few years. By then our Y-20 is ready and we can build it as many as we want. In term of China india scenario. I personally will not worry much. Just a single rail trip by China to Tibet will have send hundred of armour into the border. That is much much more than your whole C-17 fleet combine.

And for your quality BS is baseless. I can also claim PLAAF has massive quality over the crap IAF aircraft made... The lousy maintenance done by Hindustan Air. Sending so many Mig-27 and Mig-21 crashing in... Everybody knows IAF has the highest accidental rate of all AF..

As for the training is just some chest thumping by you fanatic Indian to claim Indian Pilot has better training.. Look at PLAAF thread and see the advance pod they used to record all flight characteristic of the whole training. I can bet IAF do not have some luxury for their IAF.. The training quality will definitely suffer. Even you fly 1 million times, it will still equal sucky training.
Becos the training never improve or change.

Another dumb clueless Indian

Comparing China to India is like comparing Germany to Poland

You know what? They will come up with those self endorse 'IAF has quality, IAF pilot has better training and world best." theory without any justification... And think just becos they say so it will be.. Hahaha... But reality is different. This chest thumping self delusion mentality is precisely why India will never move ahead.

Look at their rafale, LCA and FGA project that will never move on... India as a whole is a joke!

 

[UKBengali]

You know what? They will come up with those self endorse 'IAF has quality, IAF pilot has better training and world best." theory without any justification... And think just becos they say so it will be.. Hahaha... But reality is different. This chest thumping self delusion mentality is precisely why India will never move ahead.

Look at their rafale, LCA and FGA project that will never move on... India as a whole is a joke!

And the funny thing is that the gap will only grow into the future as China is now finally producing military equipment to world class standards and will no longer have to put up with expensive sub-par imports from Russia.

Most Indians believe that they will close the gap with China but are too clueless or do not want to face the fact that by around 2025 China will have total dominance over India whether it comes to army, navy or air-force.

 

[Beast]

And the funny thing is that the gap will only grow into the future as China is now finally producing military equipment to world class standards and will no longer have to put up with expensive sub-par imports from Russia.

Most Indians believe that they will close the gap with China but are too clueless or do not want to face the fact that by around 2025 China will have total dominance over India whether it comes to army, navy or air-force.

Precisely, by 2025. India will still need to import bullets and rounds for their armed forces. The so called self sustain and indigenuous effort by DRDO is just to scam more money out of the ordinary...

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

That is a baseless personal claim... Defensive? Then perhap Sweden shall build more ground radar instead of those Erieye since they are so defensive. China is mostly land lock country. I see no reason why Turboprop AWACS is useless. Sending those into nearby foreign territories for mission is perfect use. Turboprop has good endurance. Just because China build them so they become sitting duck?

As for your C-17, I heard its only June they will arrive. Not yet. Plus it will induct fully over a few years. By then our Y-20 is ready and we can build it as many as we want. In term of China india scenario. I personally will not worry much. Just a single rail trip by China to Tibet will have send hundred of armour into the border. That is much much more than your whole C-17 fleet combine.

And for your quality BS is baseless. I can also claim PLAAF has massive quality over the crap IAF aircraft made... The lousy maintenance done by Hindustan Air. Sending so many Mig-27 and Mig-21 crashing in... Everybody knows IAF has the highest accidental rate of all AF..

As for the training is just some chest thumping by you fanatic Indian to claim Indian Pilot has better training.. Look at PLAAF thread and see the advance pod they used to record all flight characteristic of the whole training. I can bet IAF do not have some luxury for their IAF.. The training quality will definitely suffer. Even you fly 1 million times, it will still equal sucky training.
Becos the training never improve or change.

You know what? They will come up with those self endorse 'IAF has quality, IAF pilot has better training and world best." theory without any justification... And think just becos they say so it will be.. Hahaha... But reality is different. This chest thumping self delusion mentality is precisely why India will never move ahead.

Look at their rafale, LCA and FGA project that will never move on... India as a whole is a joke!

On globemasters-Wrong ,2 have already arrived,by the end of this year another 3.By late 2014 all 10.
Sure send ur armour through tibet railway line,armour needs fuel to run and soldiers need ammo and food supplies to survive,and once that precious railway network goes ,ur only lifeline ur armour and ur troops are both useless.Hundreds of tanks without ammo or fuel,starving troops.And ur pathetic obsolete transport fleet is incapable of supporting more than a few troops.The more troops and armour u send the better,more the strain on logistics.
And if u thing u can hover ur little turboprop awacs[an awacs being the MOST top priority enemy target]anywhere near enemy airspace ur delusional.These big slow lumbering radar targets are sitting ducks.Just compare this awacs to the us e-3.e-4 sentrys or russian il-76s and u'll see how laughable and antiquated ur ideas about modern aerial warfare really are.These type of machines only show PLAAF is immature in modern aerial doctrine,not surprising coz it does everything in isolation anyway.As for ur ground radar....if u think there is no difference between a ground installation thats immobile and can only cover a limited area and a plane that can be flown anywhere ..then need i clarify who is the novice here?
As for ur rants on pilot training....if u think lower flying hrs,the interference of political commisars,a lesser combat history[which affects doctrine development] and no exrecises or foreign exposure has no impact on pilot quality......then go ask urself who is the 'fanatic' or 'delusional' one here.
You think ur airforce can just fly into india and munch us up boy?Your army may have a advantage over ours but ur airforce if it thinks it can do the same is in for a sharp lesson.

Especially coz u can only field a limited amount of aircraft[Around 16 squadrons] from ur 14 major tibetan airfields,and [thats without counting any transports u want to field there and would have to accomodate,u have to since most are medium or light tactical transports with small range and need close airfields that u have.......u have only 20 il-76 long range strategic transports.On top of that, The high altitude of TAR will reduce bomb/cargo load to around one third that of sea level.So send all the armour and all the troops u can on ur big rails,When those go boom...so goes ur whole invasion.

Next time do think a little about the actual situation on any battlefield and not just numbers on the paper novice.

 

[applesauce]

The PLAAF may have its own 'Top Guns', but the Chinese sub-forum here have its own 'TOP GUMS'.

not any worst than the indian/viet members on this forum though

 

[Beast]

On globemasters-Wrong ,2 have already arrived,by the end of this year another 3.By late 2014 all 10.
Sure send ur armour through tibet railway line,armour needs fuel to run and soldiers need ammo and food supplies to survive,and once that precious railway network goes ,ur only lifeline ur armour and ur troops are both useless.Hundreds of tanks without ammo or fuel,starving troops.And ur pathetic obsolete transport fleet is incapable of supporting more than a few troops.The more troops and armour u send the better,more the strain on logistics.
And if u thing u can hover ur little turboprop awacs[an awacs being the MOST top priority enemy target]anywhere near enemy airspace ur delusional.These big slow lumbering radar targets are sitting ducks.Just compare this awacs to the us e-3.e-4 sentrys or russian il-76s and u'll see how laughable and antiquated ur ideas about modern aerial warfare really are.These type of machines only show PLAAF is immature in modern aerial doctrine,not surprising coz it does everything in isolation anyway.As for ur ground radar....if u think there is no difference between a ground installation thats immobile and can only cover a limited area and a plane that can be flown anywhere ..then need i clarify who is the novice here?
As for ur rants on pilot training....if u think lower flying hrs,the interference of political commisars,a lesser combat history[which affects doctrine development] and no exrecises or foreign exposure has no impact on pilot quality......then go ask urself who is the 'fanatic' or 'delusional' one here.
You think ur airforce can just fly into india and munch us up boy?Your army may have a advantage over ours but ur airforce if it thinks it can do the same is in for a sharp lesson.

Especially coz u can only field a limited amount of aircraft[Around 16 squadrons] from ur 14 major tibetan airfields,and [thats without counting any transports u want to field there and would have to accomodate,u have to since most are medium or light tactical transports with small range and need close airfields that u have.......u have only 20 il-76 long range strategic transports.On top of that, The high altitude of TAR will reduce bomb/cargo load to around one third that of sea level.So send all the armour and all the troops u can on ur big rails,When those go boom...so goes ur whole invasion.

Next time do think a little about the actual situation on any battlefield and not just numbers on the paper novice.

Lol.. See the typical Indian mentality? End of these year? That means its not here yet? If you wants to talk abt future. I can talk abt PLAAF having 100 Y-20. As for the AWACS, I do not see any clear advantage what IAF has over PLAAF. Tou all basically has the same amount of phalcon as our KJ-2000.

and talking about taking out our railway. If you can breach thru our thick air defense first then talk. We have deploy huge number of S-300PMU2 plus unlimited number of HQ-18 with range of 200km since we can manufacture as many as we want. We still have second tier defence protected by HQ-16. As I say one rail trip is enough to outnumber all your 10 C-17 can carry. but we will not just send in one rail. Precisely,PLA do not deploy huge number of trips on India border. As we can mobile out unit quickly.

 

[gambit]

not any worst than the indian/viet members on this forum though

I have airborne time in the cockpits of the F-111 and F-16. What do you guys have?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Ha ha do u think destroying a static target like railways is really difficult in this age of precision guided munitions.A brahmos salvo from 300 kms away could take it out,try stopping that ur SAMS ,a IAF aircraft strike could do it [or air launched brahmos],a tac BM could do it .Destroying rail network was being done by ww2 propeller driven aircraft carrying dumb bombs in russia and france,its not really some great task.

If u want to talk sams then its u who is in for pain,boy.You are the ones attacking us and ur airforce is the one that will have to face our airforce plus the SAM network and ground radars.New akash and SPyders have already been deployed.So its u that has to 'breach' our thick air defense network.
As for the globemaster no u said we didn't have any.I said we already have 2.
And again ur talking about IAF advantage over PLAAF,my point is no PLAAF advantage over IAF.
Especially i see didn't answer anything hw u can only deploy 16 squadrons from ur tibetian airbases and those can only take off at 1/3 payload or cargoload.On top pf that u don't have any aircraft thats equal of the mki 1 on 1,ur pilots with lower flying hrs,political commisars and no exercises,less combat history are suspect and its you who is the aggressor.
Meaning it is you who will not only face our airforce but our air defence network ....add to that ur geographic disadvantage,limited number of squdrons u can deploy and with 1/3rd payload/cargo.
Try to convince urself as much as u want,the numbers on a paper don't reflect real battlefield scenarios.You got nothing on us in air,you think u can come into our home and eat us up.....ur air force is in for the punishment of its lifetime.

 

[jhungary]

Their disdain for experience is indicative of their egos than of intelligence. It never occurred to them that they would meet people who know the subjects under discussion.

The PLAAF may have its own 'Top Guns', but the Chinese sub-forum here have its own 'TOP GUMS'.

lol, war to many of these Chinese member here is like a Video Game. How many of them know exactly what happened in them?

I have to say, maybe you think I am cocky to say this (From the flyboy I know and met in both Iraq and Afghanistan), but things that I saw probably more than a lift time you fly boy have seen up there. Problem is, even I was in the middle east for roughly 30 months (I actually forgot how long) I still can't expect what can happen in the next 10 minutes. One minute you are driving thru the friendly back road around the neighbourhood, the next minute you got into an ambush and every shiite the insurgent have rain down on you. What do you expect, wait, no, rather What can you expect.......

I just know one thing, and one thing only, that I got back home in one piece, that's already enough.

The point is, you ain't see nothing yet until you saw the real thing, yet many Chinese member here are warmongering like they own the place....lol

I show most of their reply to a friend, he said, "if war are so easy like those guys said, the world be gone already"

 

[grey boy 2]

Hello, my dear old viet, long time no see how are you? still busying in making up BS self-proclaimed resume?
Kind of surprise how in a few yrs time could a self-admitted "Fan boy" transformed himself to a so-called "expert" though
btw, since being a old time friend of yours, i would like to deliver you from evil amen by rephrasing your post a little bit, do not forget to thanks me though pal

I have spent time in watching the cockpits pictures of the F-111 and F-16. What do you guys have?

 

[gambit]

I have to say, maybe you think I am cocky to say this (From the flyboy I know and met in both Iraq and Afghanistan), but things that I saw probably more than a lift time you fly boy have seen up there. Problem is, even I was in the middle east for roughly 30 months (I actually forgot how long) I still can't expect what can happen in the next 10 minutes. One minute you are driving thru the friendly back road around the neighbourhood, the next minute you got into an ambush and every shiite the insurgent have rain down on you. What do you expect, wait, no, rather What can you expect.......

Not at all. The Air Force is actually very well sympathetic to ground troopers. We know we are isolated from the hardest part of any war. We joke about the Army and the Marines, but every pilot and mechanic will do whatever is necessary to supply our side with the capability to attack the enemy from the 3rd dimension to achieve the common goal -- win.

The point is, you ain't see nothing yet until you saw the real thing, yet many Chinese member here are warmongering like they own the place....lol

I show most of their reply to a friend, he said, "if war are so easy like those guys said, the world be gone already"

Most of these guys have never even shot a pistol at the range, let alone clutch a rifle tight in apprehension and fear. They are brave warriors only in their own minds.

 

[jhungary]

Not at all. The Air Force is actually very well sympathetic to ground troopers. We know we are isolated from the hardest part of any war. We joke about the Army and the Marines, but every pilot and mechanic will do whatever is necessary to supply our side with the capability to attack the enemy from the 3rd dimension to achieve the common goal -- win.


Most of these guys have never even shot a pistol at the range, let alone clutch a rifle tight in apprehension and fear. They are brave warriors only in their own minds.

lol I talked to a Strike Eagle Pilot back when I was in Bagarm, he keep saying man he wish he got the action that I get, it's "Boring" up there, you fly sortie, waiting to get call, when you get the call, dive down to 5000 ft AGL, drop bomb, head home for coffee....

and I keep thinking man, your life here have it easy. Especially after I just got out of a 80 hours straight mad fighting, that's why I was in Bagram in the first place, just got Casevac out (Well, I wasn't hurt but, being a captain I got to ride out and write combat report....) I don't even realise what time and date back then. And here he is, thinking action is fun....

People are so stupid and egoistic even when you look at our guy in training, people can't really do much until they face a two way firing range. lol

But dude, it's really not a pretty picture when you are looking at your guy getting shot at, and you can't do anything about that.

I remember one time I pull the AFO by his collar after I am looking at Insurgent shooting my guys, and the AFO said the orbiting F-15E have no ordinance left and have to head home and rearm. I know there are probably nothing he can do nor that pilot can do? But I was just real mad and almost would have killed the AFO.....

 

[Beast]

Ha ha do u think destroying a static target like railways is really difficult in this age of precision guided munitions.A brahmos salvo from 300 kms away could take it out,try stopping that ur SAMS ,a IAF aircraft strike could do it [or air launched brahmos],a tac BM could do it .Destroying rail network was being done by ww2 propeller driven aircraft carrying dumb bombs in russia and france,its not really some great task.

If u want to talk sams then its u who is in for pain,boy.You are the ones attacking us and ur airforce is the one that will have to face our airforce plus the SAM network and ground radars.New akash and SPyders have already been deployed.So its u that has to 'breach' our thick air defense network.
As for the globemaster no u said we didn't have any.I said we already have 2.
And again ur talking about IAF advantage over PLAAF,my point is no PLAAF advantage over IAF.
Especially i see didn't answer anything hw u can only deploy 16 squadrons from ur tibetian airbases and those can only take off at 1/3 payload or cargoload.On top pf that u don't have any aircraft thats equal of the mki 1 on 1,ur pilots with lower flying hrs,political commisars and no exercises,less combat history are suspect and its you who is the aggressor.
Meaning it is you who will not only face our airforce but our air defence network ....add to that ur geographic disadvantage,limited number of squdrons u can deploy and with 1/3rd payload/cargo.
Try to convince urself as much as u want,the numbers on a paper don't reflect real battlefield scenarios.You got nothing on us in air,you think u can come into our home and eat us up.....ur air force is in for the punishment of its lifetime.

Lol... You even need to fly a plane to launch a pathetic 300km missile into China and risk getting **** down? China second arty DF-21 and DF-15 with Mach 10 and 1500km and 2100km is enough to flatten any of your airbase nearby with a Mach 10 speed. Plus our CJ-10 cruise missile with 1600km range.

It's more like you trying hard to delude everybody in believing IAF superiority.
Talking about superior IAF training is just hot air. No prove to verify anything. At least I provided a video of digitalise training of PLAAF showing real upgrade of PLAAF 3rd generation level of top class training with use of advance training pod.

Logistic wise, I have already explain the wide network of our rail system to transport heavy equipment to anywhere in China to meet the threat of India. As for your India air defense network, Is all fill with crappy missiles or missile which we have knowledage of. It can be neutralise easily. As for your MKI, it will be well taken care of with our J-11B , J-10 and J-16. Nothin foresee of a threat to China. I seriously do not forsee how IAF going to neutralise any of our aerial superiority. Plus most of the IAF ammunition is filled with downgrade weapon sell from Russian and France. Nothing indignenuous to talk with. PLAAF already know the crappy R-77 bought from Russian and we decide to go with homemade PL-12 which already enter service in 2004. Not to mention other plenty of precision strike ammunition that we have display during zhuhai 2010 airshow.

Hello, my dear old viet, long time no see how are you? still busying in making up BS self-proclaimed resume?
Kind of surprise how in a few yrs time could a self-admitted "Fan boy" transformed himself to a so-called "expert" though
btw, since being a old time friend of yours, i would like to deliver you from evil amen by rephrasing your post a little bit, do not forget to thanks me though pal

Complete agreed with him regarding this old viet. This guy know he can't do anything to stop the rise of China. The only little action he can do is to make full use of his adopted country hiding under the US flag and hope to spread some Internet nonsense about China to satisfy his inferiority.

 

[gambit]

lol I talked to a Strike Eagle Pilot back when I was in Bagarm, he keep saying man he wish he got the action that I get, it's "Boring" up there, you fly sortie, waiting to get call, when you get the call, dive down to 5000 ft AGL, drop bomb, head home for coffee....

Check this out...

The Last Ace - Mark Bowden - The Atlantic

A special-operations team combed the Iraqi MiG’s crash site, and this was one of the items salvaged,...

Back in Desert Storm, we planned for a serious fight with the Iraqi Air Force. We expected the Iraqi Air Force to act as we do -- go all the way to Kuwait with the Iraqi Army.

Anyway...The USAF have no doubt as to who would dominate. Air Force Systems Command, our own 'geeks', back at Wright-Patterson asked for volunteers to embed with the Army in Kuwait to retrieve any Soviet/Chinese fighter related hardware after said fighter was shot down. Apparently, AFSC got tired of ham fisted Army and Marines troopers bringing back stuff that got even more damaged, often too far gone to be of much use, or the wrong things from the 'shopping list'. The geeks wanted Air Force guys who know what aircraft related stuff look like, how to assess its utility, and how to salvage it as intact as possible. Since I once taught Aircraft Battle Damage Repair (ABDR), how to salvage and repair damaged aviation gear was on my record, so I was asked to volunteer. For real, not 'persuaded' in anyway. I and a dozen other Air Force types volunteered.

We trained with the Air Force Special Operations (AFSOC), specifically with the Combat Controllers (CC), at both MacDill and Eglin. At Eglin, it was more about survival and ground combat tactics. At MacDill, it was for technical details on what we should look for and how to salvage. Time was short so we trained real hard. We got it down to where with bolt cutters and a couple of torches, we could rip an engine from a MIG in less than 30 min with most of the vital engine core, what the geeks really wanted, quite intact for study. Each of us was issued an M4 and the weak dick Beretta M92. I took a CC's advice and chucked it and took a friend's Colt 1911.

Anyway...The Iraqi Air Farce never showed for the fight. We were with the Army in Kuwait City waiting to do what we volunteered to do -- rip up a few MIGs. Right after the Iraqi Army was ousted, our little camp just right outside the airport was alerted by a guard that someone was approaching. At that time, no Kuwaiti citizen was foolish enough to venture to a strategic place like the airport...!!! So all of us, Air Force and Army, grabbed our rifles and took cover. Us Air Force guys huddled by our Hummers that contained all our gear for our intended mission.

It turned out the person who was walking towards us was a woman. She was limping and clutching her lower abdomen and crying. And there was blood lower on her dress. We were warned that the Iraqi Army would try to use Kuwaiti civilians in some dirty tactics so for a while we watched. The Army was in control of everything. All us Air Force types could do was watched the event. About may be 50 yds from us, she collapsed to the ground but was still conscious and moving. Then one of the Army guys ran out to her. To this day, I still do not know if he was ordered or just did it on his own.

The odd part for us back then was that as we were watching, we could tell she was waving him away and he stopped a few yds from her. His rifle was pointing at her. So for us Air Force guys, I thought to myself that the sh1t was coming down. The Kuwait civilian was being used by some remaining Iraqi Army thugs and our little camp was going to get hit big time. After a few tense moments, the Army trooper finally got personal close with the woman and searched her over. Then he ran back and asked for a female nurse. We learned later that she was quite brutalized by the Iraqi Army soldiers and suffered for a few days alone before working up the courage to ask for help. She waved our guy away because he was a man and our guy was understanding enough to ask for a female nurse. We also learned later that this kind of brutality upon the Kuwaiti women occurred a lot throughout the brief occupation by the Iraqi Army and our little outpost at the airport was not the only one who had to help these poor women.

That was as much 'action' that I got. And I never had a chance to rip up a MIG.