Can China legally prevent Japan of using Kanji in their culture?

[INDIC]

@Viet @EastSea why did Vietnam moved to Roman script from centuries of pictorial script. Is Vietnamese too a tonal language like Mandarin.

 

[jhungary]

To: jhungary

You think you're smart by playing trick of confusing and converting concepts? you just make yourself a fool.

Let's just stick to Kanji using right, ok? which is what this thread is about.
You claimed "China did not have patent on Chinese as in any other modern language in the world. Hence China did not own the exclusive right to Chinese Language." so I assume you declared Hanzi was not invented by Chinese people hence couldn't be banned for use by Japanese, right?

Later you claimed " The History of Chinese (the language) is based on a script of Indo-Sino-Tibetan", citing Wikipedia resource,
have you ever had a look at the Wikipedia title "Sino-Tibetan languages" and its content? where is your claimed "Indo-", and where is the part of written Chinese based on Indo-Sino-Tibetan script?

You understand the concepts of spoken language and written language at any rate, right? Chinese language belonging to Sino-Tibetan language family only means the languages under this category share some common phonetic characteristics and rules of grammar, but they still are different and independent languages incomprehensible to each other.

Written language is not naturally born at the same time with spoken language, like Hanzi was born 3000 years ago and Kana was created around 500B.C. and they were different even being among the same language family like written Chinese and Tibetan are totally different and of course were created by Chinese and Tibetan respectively.

As for the origin of Hanzi, and the difference between ancient and modern China,
one thing you should always keep in mind is that China is a place mainly populated by aboriginal Han Chinese ever since this vast land first had human beings and till today!
The history of China is mostly the history of Han Chinese, the culture including language history of China is cultural history of Han Chinese, Chinese language whatever ancient Chinese or modern Chinese is all and only referring to Han Chinese language.

China is not Egypt which is divided by ancient and modern Egypt composed of different nationals with different language and culture.
Chinese governments may have changed many times, the reigning size of land may varied accordingly, however, Han Chinese always there,
Chinese language always there unchanged, and of course Han Chinese culture never broken and changed by other cultures.

So desperate!
You just keep lying and inventing history to make yourself comfort?

Indo contributing to the Sino-Tibetian langauge ? you're brainless?
you don't know Indo-European language family is totally different from Sino-Tibetan language family?
since the two language don't share any common phonetic and grammatical characteristics, then where is the indo-influence in Chinese? basic logic!

oh, "indo-sino-tibetan script", how genuine! then written Chinese, Tibetan and Indic were both developed from this script, although they three just don't recognize and share any similarity from each other today!

idiot!

I am not gonna repeat myself over and over again like you guys do, the only different between you and me is this, even if i repeat myself i supplied back-uped referenced facts. While you just repeatingly blowing hot air into this agrument.

Not saying all Chinese member do this but there are great deal of you guys are just rather win an agrument by yelling the loudest than by supporting facts.

The whole Indo-Sino-Tibetian Language issue are already explained with reference provided, you can check it anytime and if you do not agree, please provide supporting fact that ued to counter my point.

Here is what you should read before you comment

History of the Chinese language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sino-Tibetan languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While i always maintain the modern Chinese are a product of Old Chinese, China (PRC) today do not hold the right to the Old Chinese and the Kanji are NOT Derived from Modern Chinese (Manarin). Do bear in mind the Modern Chinese (Mandarin) is not the one Japanese Model after when they implement Kanji. Japan Implement Kanji in around 50AD which roughly the time of the usage of Middle Chinese Language.

The modern system did not appear standardize until 995 AD, by then the Japanese are already been using the Kanji for more than 900 years. Notice the time differnet.

The reason i have been saying the Old Chinese and the (Indo)-Sino-Tibetian Language is because that was the one they model after when Japanese implementing Kanji in their System, NOT MODERN CHINESE LANGUAGE

If you do not know anything about Chinese Language History, and Japanese History, suggesting you to go read something about it, before commenting, but not come here and accuse other making history up. What i said, at all, can be traced and backed up, but you on the other hand, have no reference and no fact supported. If you are going to just blow hot air into agrument, i can do that too.

Kanji - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Middle Chinese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[INDIC]

Yes, the whole discuss i made to the fellow chinese member is the Manuscript (Writing System) where most of them refer the New Standard CHinese (Mandarin). What they fail to see is the Modern Standard Chinese is a devirative from the Manuscript in ancient time.

I have seen such characters its look like simple pictures. Didn't China ever have phonetic script.

 

[northeast]

I have seen such characters its look like simple pictures. Didn't China ever have phonetic script.

Chinese civillization was pretty isolated and unique，no point to abandon those unique characters.

 

[INDIC]

Chinese civillization was pretty isolated and unique，no point to abandon those unique characters.

Did China ever face Hun invasion.

 

[EastSea]

LOL, your tiny little brain can't even fill in a basic logical thinking

As I said before, go K yourself, "Chinese teacher".

There is logic thinking of Nan Man, you sated:
"天空" is a word and "空" is a character, these are different !

and late on you stated:
Did I say that "空" is not a word you blind fool? ... .
"天空" = sky; "空" = empty

 

[Snomannen]

There is logic thinking of Nan Man, you sated:
"天空" is a word and "空" is a character, these are different !

and late on you stated:
Did I say that "空" is not a word you blind fool? ... .
"天空" = sky; "空" = empty

HA! Stupid Vietnamese loves Chinese language so much it never stop teaching a Chinese its "Vietnamese style Chinese"~Ha!

"天空" is a word but "空" in this situation is a character within in the word "天空", you stupid NanmanVietmonkey,
which means that the word "天空" (sky) is nothing to do with "空" (empty),
just like "熱狗" (hotdog) is nothing to do with "狗" (dog) you freaking idiot.
"空" can be a word, a character or even a sentence in different situation and different ways of using.

I can't believe that I have to describe sth simple as 1+1=2 to a freaking idiot. What a wast of time.

Stupid low IQ (yeah that's what you called me few months ago, and I didn't even say sth bad to you. you are the axxhole who really start the fight and acting like a monkey) NammanViet are too stupid to learn Chinese and dare to become a Chinese teacher, ha!
What, still alive? Jump over the window and end your worthless life, at once.

You are really the stupidest bastard I have ever seen on internet, shame on you low-classed creature.

 

[northeast]

Did China ever face Hun invasion.

Don't you know xiongnu（hun）was beaten by han dynasty？Southern hun was removed from mongolia and be placed in china by emperor，northern hun was defeated by han dynasty and xianbei people and some of them run from mongolia to the weakest west.the population of huns who invade europe was only thousands，only 1% of the powerful xiongnu,but they still conquered nearly half of europe.
I think han empire and xiongnu hordes had the two most powerful armies in that time.Rome was nothing.
you know kushan empire was founded by yuezhi who got defeated by huns.the huns king kill their king and made his skull to a wine cup.they run their ***** from xinjiang and fleet to india and pakistan then found kushan empire.

 

[Snomannen]

But if they modified it enough, they can claim the new design to be theirs.

Of course, that's how mankind improve their knowledge.
What I mean is that they cannot claim the original design.

 

[Khitan21]

I have seen such characters its look like simple pictures. Didn't China ever have phonetic script.

Maybe China did a thousand years before the Qin Dynasty, but in order for China to be one country at the time, they needed something to bound all the Chinese nations together, and thats how Hanzi came into play.

In order for the Chinese nations to become one singular nation, and have the people within its border to be able to communicate with one another , all of them had to utilize the Chinese characters, and in order to utilize them effectively, their languages had to be non phonetic.

Nations that where within the Sinosphere, like Vietnam and Korea and to some extent, nomadic people from the steppes, at one point utilized Hanzi, but because of their phonetic spoken language, it was difficult for them to write effectively, which why these nations within the Sinosphere, despite being highly influenced by China culturally, had to change their writing scripts; Koreans invented their own scripts, likewise to many nomadic tribes in the steppes and the Vietnamese adopted latin alphabets.

 

[Khitan21]

Chinese civillization was pretty isolated and unique，no point to abandon those unique characters.

Did China ever face Hun invasion.

What he meant to say was, China was isolated from powerful influential sedentary cultures. The closest influential sedentary cultures were in India and Persia, but the Himalayan mountain and the vast steppes and harsh lands of Central Asia ruled by nomads, caused China to have only minimal contact with other influential sedentary civilizations

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

While i always maintain the modern Chinese are a product of Old Chinese, China (PRC) today do not hold the right to the Old Chinese and the Kanji are NOT Derived from Modern Chinese (Manarin). Do bear in mind the Modern Chinese (Mandarin) is not the one Japanese Model after when they implement Kanji. Japan Implement Kanji in around 50AD which roughly the time of the usage of Middle Chinese Language.

Epic fail. first you claimed that chinese writing is indo-china-tibetian which it's not belong to chinese along, now you admit it as ancient chinese, then for you ancient chinese is not modern chinese, in this case enlight us what was the differences? and are you realized that Japanese use modern chinese simplfiy writing??

here the link on how japanese use simplify chinese kanji

Top 100 Most Common Kanji - 1 thru 50

 

[EastSea]

HA! Stupid Vietnamese loves Chinese language so much it never stop teaching a Chinese its "Vietnamese style Chinese"~Ha!

"天空" is a word but "空" in this situation is a character within in the word "天空", you stupid NanmanVietmonkey,
which means that the word "天空" (sky) is nothing to do with "空" (empty),
just like "熱狗" (hotdog) is nothing to do with "狗" (dog) you freaking idiot.
"空" can be a word, a character or even a sentence in different situation and different ways of using.

I can't believe that I have to describe sth simple as 1+1=2 to a freaking idiot. What a wast of time.

Stupid low IQ (yeah that's what you called me few months ago, and I didn't even say sth bad to you. you are the axxhole who really start the fight and acting like a monkey) NammanViet are too stupid to learn Chinese and dare to become a Chinese teacher, ha!
What, still alive? Jump over the window and end your worthless life, at once.

You are really the stupidest bastard I have ever seen on internet, shame on you low-classed creature.

yes, you are low IQ boy when you refer to mathematical formula for your argument, 1 + 1 = 2 .
Base on your logic, generally 1 + 2 = 3 or 2 + 1 = 3.

But,
天 + 空 = 天空 the meaning of the word is "sky" in English
空 + 天 = 空天 What is this word ? the meaning of this word should be different (Air and Space ? ).

 

[jhungary]

To: jhungary

You think you're smart by playing trick of confusing and converting concepts? you just make yourself a fool.

Let's just stick to Kanji using right, ok? which is what this thread is about.
You claimed "China did not have patent on Chinese as in any other modern language in the world. Hence China did not own the exclusive right to Chinese Language." so I assume you declared Hanzi was not invented by Chinese people hence couldn't be banned for use by Japanese, right?

Later you claimed " The History of Chinese (the language) is based on a script of Indo-Sino-Tibetan", citing Wikipedia resource,
have you ever had a look at the Wikipedia title "Sino-Tibetan languages" and its content? where is your claimed "Indo-", and where is the part of written Chinese based on Indo-Sino-Tibetan script?

You understand the concepts of spoken language and written language at any rate, right? Chinese language belonging to Sino-Tibetan language family only means the languages under this category share some common phonetic characteristics and rules of grammar, but they still are different and independent languages incomprehensible to each other.

Written language is not naturally born at the same time with spoken language, like Hanzi was born 3000 years ago and Kana was created around 500B.C. and they were different even being among the same language family like written Chinese and Tibetan are totally different and of course were created by Chinese and Tibetan respectively.

As for the origin of Hanzi, and the difference between ancient and modern China,
one thing you should always keep in mind is that China is a place mainly populated by aboriginal Han Chinese ever since this vast land first had human beings and till today!
The history of China is mostly the history of Han Chinese, the culture including language history of China is cultural history of Han Chinese, Chinese language whatever ancient Chinese or modern Chinese is all and only referring to Han Chinese language.

China is not Egypt which is divided by ancient and modern Egypt composed of different nationals with different language and culture.
Chinese governments may have changed many times, the reigning size of land may varied accordingly, however, Han Chinese always there,
Chinese language always there unchanged, and of course Han Chinese culture never broken and changed by other cultures.

So desperate!
You just keep lying and inventing history to make yourself comfort?

Indo contributing to the Sino-Tibetian langauge ? you're brainless?
you don't know Indo-European language family is totally different from Sino-Tibetan language family?
since the two language don't share any common phonetic and grammatical characteristics, then where is the indo-influence in Chinese? basic logic!

oh, "indo-sino-tibetan script", how genuine! then written Chinese, Tibetan and Indic were both developed from this script, although they three just don't recognize and share any similarity from each other today!

idiot!

Epic fail. first you claimed that chinese writing is indo-china-tibetian which it's not belong to chinese along, now you admit it as ancient chinese, then for you ancient chinese is not modern chinese, in this case enlight us what was the differences? and are you realized that Japanese use modern chinese simplfiy writing??

here the link on how japanese use simplify chinese kanji

Top 100 Most Common Kanji - 1 thru 50

lol..........

I never say Chinese (Modern Chinese) are a direct dialect from Indo-Sino-Tibetian Language. You fail Chinese need to know this first.

Basically as per my convo with Gigawatt. The Chinese Language i talked about is NOT THE SAME ONE you guys keep bugging me about.

I was talking about the Original Scripture of Chinese Character (Old CHinese) that are of Indo-Sino-Tibetian Langauge family. And the earilest scripture are developed by Zhou Dynasty and honestly to say. Zhou Dynasty is a combination of Modern North-Eastern China, Modern Tibet and Modern Eastern India

Dude, the Chinese you are talking about and the Chinese that now China spoken is coming from Modern Chinese, which is a product of Ming Dynasty (1300 AD) where if you care to look, Japanese Kanji are implemnented into their System at 50 AD. So how Japan share the same language background as Modern Chinese (Your generation)?

The Chiense language you are talking about is not the same Chinese language i am talking about and IT IS NOT THE SAME THE JAPANESE USED.

Is it clear enough? Geez, i feel like i am teaching special classes. I have to repeat time and over again. Didn't you guys have an eyes and a brain you can read and process information?

It is fricking strange that Chinese People do not know where their own language come from and yet barking on the internet on yet another language

 

[Viet]

@Viet @EastSea why did Vietnam moved to Roman script from centuries of pictorial script. Is Vietnamese too a tonal language like Mandarin.

There were practical reasons why we dropped Chinese and adopted Latin Vietnamese alphabet after 2,000 years.

We remember, a Viet must master firstly Classical Chinese, than secondly learn derived Chinese-Vietnamese characters, then thirdly there were another characters for pronounciation. All made it terribly difficult to master the language. Last but not least, everybody had to adopt latin due to an order of the Vietnamese Emperor at the beginning of the last Century.

Both Vietnamese and Chinese are tonal language. The tone makes the diference, basically a word: different tone means different meaning.

Pls see also my post #149.