Can Al-Qa’ida, be defeated in Pakistan?

[Spartan King]

what we need to understand is that the US has not succeeded in the 2 wars they fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. Al Qaeda, is something the US fails to understand, i personally believe that the US is only using Al Qaeda to launch attacks at countries it feels 'might' one day stand up against it. and this is a well known fact that america suffered major loses in both the wars, even though they deny it. and as far as the fact that Al Qaeda can be defeated in Pakistan, well brothers, i dont think we even have Al qaeda here, sure our forces find people here there in a while, but how do we know if their really Al Qaeda? or just an act to impress foreign powers telling them were doing something? i pray to Allah that Pakisatan should ge out of all this business and strictly concentrate on its people, its defence and itself. it shouldnt be our concern what happens in america or where ever. yes what should be our concen is that through an international and religious agreement, we should unite all the Muslim countries and stay as ONE.
Salaam

 

[Logic note]

what we need to understand is that the US has not succeeded in the 2 wars they fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Sucess have different meaning for diff PPL

They have achieved what they expectd -

Afghanistan

Defeat and remove Taliban government and Al-Qa'ida from Afghanistan
Prove them to be ideological irrelevant to majority of ppl of Afghanistan and Pakistan
Limit them to the border areas
Cut their Logistical Base
Turn Pakistan government and Army against them
The Final Crush

The final Crush has to Come . whether they will achieve it or not has yet to be seen .

IRAQ

Remove Saddam Hussain
establish a Government (through the Democratic Process)
Keep the Iraq , united
Demonstrate the democracy as an better alternative compaired to Religious Autoracy in Middle East
There by,Keep the Energy Resource (Petroleum) free from the exploitation of Islamic Fundamentalism
Prove al quaida as an Outsider and Irrelevant ideology for Iraqi ppl
Maintain its Physical Presence in Middle east ( next to Iran )

i personally believe that the US is only using Al Qaeda to launch attacks at countries it feels 'might' one day stand up against it.

The reality is none of these countries can ever stand up against USA , even when they Join Hands together .

well brothers, i dont think we even have Al qaeda here, sure our forces find people here there in a while, but how do we know if their really Al Qaeda?

They are In Pakistand . It can be no where else but in Pakistan.

i pray to Allah that Pakisatan should ge out of all this business and strictly concentrate on its people, its defence and itself.

Yes Pakistand should be out of this business , but Alqaida is not Osama bin Laden or any other Individual , its an Ideology which has a strong support in Pakistan .
most of the terrorist and terrorist activities have been there, or have links with organisations in Pakistan or origin in Pakistan. Its a monster created by Earlier Pakistani Establishment in order to destroy India and tame Afghanistan , which is now turning against it .
SO without defeating AL qaida , Pakistan can achieve progress .

yes what should be our concen is that through an international and religious agreement, we should unite all the Muslim countries and stay as ONE.

Why not all Humanity, Irrespective of their religion , colour , caste or race ?
this kind of thinking is the starting point of Monsters , like Alqaida

 

[IceCold]

They are In Pakistand . It can be no where else but in Pakistan.

Really! any prove or just your usual rant. And dont come up with BS media reports. Show any official government or UN report that pakistan is spreading terrorism or AQ is found only in pakistan.

Yes Pakistand should be out of this business , but Alqaida is not Osama bin Laden or any other Individual , its an Ideology which has a strong support in Pakistan.

Since when did AQ became an ideology. I didnt knew that terrorist organisation are infact an idelogy. Learn the meaning of the word before using it. AQ has strong support, according to whom, You!

most of the terrorist and terrorist activities have been there, or have links with organisations in Pakistan or origin in Pakistan. Its a monster created by Earlier Pakistani Establishment in order to destroy India and tame Afghanistan , which is now turning against it .
SO without defeating AL qaida , Pakistan can achieve progress.

Care to elaborate which organisations. I thought ISI was the only one being blamed off but its an organisation. Since internet is very informative these days specially when it comes to pakistan, also enlight us with the name of these organisations as well.
About achieving progress, dont worry about that, because we really are progressing and that is the only thing which is not going down the throats of the indians, becasue they want to see pakistan as a disorientated, bankrupt and a failed state.
And if you care to disaggree, do tell us what are five indian consulates doing in afghanistan just near the pakistan boder.

 

[Logic note]

Really! any prove or just your usual rant. And dont come up with BS media reports. Show any official government or UN report that pakistan is spreading terrorism or AQ is found only in pakistan.

This is from Horse's Mouth -Your respected President
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
» Musharraf says Osama could be in Pakistan - {Thaindian News}

and the whole world says it
BBC - BBC NEWS | South Asia | Al-Qaeda 'rebuilding' in Pakistan
The Weekly Standard - Al Qaeda's Pakistan Sanctuary

Since when did AQ became an ideology. I didnt knew that terrorist organisation are infact an idelogy. Learn the meaning of the word before using it. AQ has strong support, according to whom, You!

May be you didnt Understand.
it means that , AQ doesnt represent a single individual or a group of individual ,it is a part of ideology based on hatred towards non muslim .

As Zawahiri writes in Knights:

The jihad movement must . . . make room for the Muslim nation to participate with it in the jihad for the sake of empowerment. The Muslim nation will not participate with [the jihad movement] unless the slogans of the mujahidin are understood by the masses. . . . The one slogan that has been well understood by the nation and to which it has been responding for the past 50 years is the call for jihad against Israel. In addition to this slogan, the [Muslim] nation in [the 1990s] is geared against the US presence. [The Muslim nation] has responded favorably to the call for the jihad against the Americans. . . . [T]he jihad movement moved to the center of the leadership of the [Muslim] nation when it adopted the slogan of liberating the nation from its external enemies. . . . [Striking at the United States would force the Americans to] personally wage the battle against the Muslims, which means that the battle will turn into a clear-cut jihad against infidels.22

Care to elaborate which organisations. I thought ISI was the only one being blamed off but its an organisation. Since internet is very informative these days specially when it comes to pakistan, also enlight us with the name of these organisations as well.

Sure - Please go through them .

Terrorist and Extremist Groups of Pakistan

About achieving progress, dont worry about that, because we really are progressing and that is the only thing which is not going down the throats of the indians, becasue they want to see pakistan as a disorientated, bankrupt and a failed state.

Thats your insecurity . we wish good for you .

And if you care to disaggree, do tell us what are five indian consulates doing in afghanistan just near the pakistan boder.

Again your insecurity

 

[IceCold]

This is from Horse's Mouth -Your respected President
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
» Musharraf says Osama could be in Pakistan - {Thaindian News}

and the whole world says it
BBC - BBC NEWS | South Asia | Al-Qaeda 'rebuilding' in Pakistan
The Weekly Standard - Al Qaeda's Pakistan Sanctuary

Ok which part of my post you did not understand that you again came up with media reports such as thaindia, BBC, Dailytimes. Woww you consider them official. lol. I asked you simply to come up with a official government of any country (except india ofcourse) or UN report that says that pakistan is terrorism sponspering state or AQ is only found in pakistan like you mentioned. Since you didnot do that its no suprise because other wise the rant would had to come to an end which i dont see the case here. Let me come to the reports you mentioned. Now musharraf said he could be in pakistan, but he did not say he is in pakistan, rather the news agencies are assuming that he felt shot of saying. Also he said on rather different occasions which none of the links you mentioned showed because obiviously that would had not suited your propoganda is that western sources are all ranting that osama is in pakistan, he has asked on a number of different occasions that provide us with a proof that he's in pakistan so that we can act, where they all fall shot. He could be in pakistan and that he is in pakistan there a hell of a difference provided you understand simple english. Anyhow coming back
to my original question that you did not answer was that you mentioned in your previous post that AQ is only found in pakistan, where does that prove AQ is only operating in pakistan and not anywere else in the world.

May be you didnt Understand.
it means that , AQ doesnt represent a single individual or a group of individual ,it is a part of ideology based on hatred towards non muslim .

As Zawahiri writes in Knights:

AQ doesnt represent a single individual! really well that was a surprise i guess US is looking for osama for nothing since according to your theory AQ doesnt represent him but an ideology of harted towards non muslim so capturing osama will help in nothing i guess. Also tell me how do you link this ideology of yours with pakistan? When did pakistan or the pakistani people hated non muslims. When did ever christains in pakistan were burned alive or a church was burned unlike in india where mosques are burned openly? And dont give the example of india as that is a country to country dispute, not people to people. Its a fight of strategic interests.

Sure - Please go through them .

Terrorist and Extremist Groups of Pakistan

The long list missed ISI. I think they must have forgotton to include the head of all. However there was one organisation that i think india can better answer about its whereabouts the Baluch People's Libration Feont (BPLF). Ever heard of it. Its mentioned in the long list that you provided.

Thats your insecurity . we wish good for you.

Really! how sweet.

Again your insecurity

You didnt answer my question!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

what we need to understand is that the US has not succeeded in the 2 wars they fought in Afghanistan and Iraq. Al Qaeda, is something the US fails to understand, i personally believe that the US is only using Al Qaeda to launch attacks at countries it feels 'might' one day stand up against it. and this is a well known fact that america suffered major loses in both the wars, even though they deny it. and as far as the fact that Al Qaeda can be defeated in Pakistan, well brothers, i dont think we even have Al qaeda here, sure our forces find people here there in a while, but how do we know if their really Al Qaeda? or just an act to impress foreign powers telling them were doing something? i pray to Allah that Pakisatan should ge out of all this business and strictly concentrate on its people, its defence and itself. it shouldnt be our concern what happens in america or where ever. yes what should be our concen is that through an international and religious agreement, we should unite all the Muslim countries and stay as ONE.
Salaam

It is rather far fetched to believe that the AQ is an US invention to target countries inimical to its interest, if that is what you are inferring.

In any military action, losses are but natural and so the US losing personnel is nothing unusual. It is just that they are more sensitive to the loss of lives of their own.

The word 'AQ' has become blurred and all terrorist organisations seem to be clubbed under this title.

Terrorism has no religion or nationality. They are scoundrels and lotus eaters and they only think of their own agenda. They do not care if they are targeting Moslem nations or any other.

Even if the Moslem nations become one, the terrorists would still not be bothered and will still continue to do exactly what they are doing.

I am convinced that these terrorist organisation has nothing to with Islam and instead are just trying to subjugate people with fear to pursue their agenda.

Pakistan is going about its business in case you have any doubt about that.

It is in the interest of Pakistan to tie up with the US and enough has been said on this forum for repitition.

 

[niaz]

In my opinion, Al-Qaida or any other terrorist organization cannot be defeated until such time that there are people around who provide succour to the terrorists. So why are there people, who support killers and terrorists??

There are two main reasons:

1. A strong belief in the Muslims the world over, that USA is out to destroy Islam. IMO this belief is not correct. But whether a belief is correct or not is immaterial. As long as USA will continue her unstinting support of Israel; this belief will be perceived to be true by Muslim ummah at large.

2. Unilateral actions by USA to impose her will on other countries. For example, USA have decided that Musharraf should continue as President with Benazir as Prime Minister. ( This has prompted BB to announce that any election result where PPP is not No.1 and PML-N as No.2, will not be acceptable. If you prejudge the election result, why have elections at all??).

Even though such a result may not be a bad thing for Pakistan, it surely galls me to no end when a third country dictates as to where and when I should fart.

In the nutshell, as long as US does not alter her policies, Al-Qaida will not be defeated anywhere.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

In my opinion, Al-Qaida or any other terrorist organization cannot be defeated until such time that there are people around who provide succour to the terrorists. So why are there people, who support killers and terrorists??

There are two main reasons:

1. A strong belief in the Muslims the world over, that USA is out to destroy Islam. IMO this belief is not correct. But whether a belief is correct or not is immaterial. As long as USA will continue her unstinting support of Israel; this belief will be perceived to be true by Muslim ummah at large.

2. Unilateral actions by USA to impose her will on other countries. For example, USA have decided that Musharraf should continue as President with Benazir as Prime Minister. ( This has prompted BB to announce that any election result where PPP is not No.1 and PML-N as No.2, will not be acceptable. If you prejudge the election result, why have elections at all??).

Even though such a result may not be a bad thing for Pakistan, it surely galls me to no end when a third country dictates as to where and when I should fart.

In the nutshell, as long as US does not alter her policies, Al-Qaida will not be defeated anywhere.

With all due regards to you and others, it has nothing to do with the US or any other country.

AQ agenda is simply Quaranic. Dar al Islam.

Dar al Islam, in the contemporary world, is not feasible.

Who can tell them of the reality?

They are committed and they will go on.

 

[Logic note]

Al-Qaeda has become Pakistani phenomenon'

Al-Qaeda has become Pakistani phenomenon'
PTI
Saturday, December 29, 2007 14:52 IST
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ISLAMABAD: Al-Qaeda, blamed for the killing of ex-premier Benazir Bhutto, is now "a Pakistani phenomenon" as sectarian and 'jihadi' groups in the country have joined the terror network after the government crackdown on them since the launch of peace process with India, a media report said on Saturday.

"Clearly, al-Qaeda in Pakistan and Afghanistan doesn't just comprise Arabs and Uzbeks and Tajiks. It also comprises Pakistanis; and among such Pakistanis it comprises Pathans and Punjabis and possibly Urdu speakers who constitute the Pakistani Taliban," 'Daily Times' said in an article.

"Certainly, it is known that a number of Pakistani sectarian and jihadi Sunni organisations have joined the al- Qaeda network after the government launched efforts to disband them since the 'peace process' started with India. So al-Qaeda is now as much a Pakistani phenomenon as it is an Arab or foreign element."

The government yesterday said al-Qaeda was responsible for a series of suicide bombings meant to destabilize Pakistan, including the attack in Rawalpindi on Bhutto on Thursday that killed her and nearly 30 others. It said it had intelligence intercepts of Pakistani Taliban leader, Baitullah Mehsud, congratulating another person for the attack.

"Why is it difficult to believe that the same Islamist network that tried to eliminate President (Pervez) Musharraf, (former premier) Shaukat Aziz, (ex-interior minister) Aftab Sherpao and Benazir Bhutto on October 18 may be responsible for her murder on December 27?" said the newspaper article. "The first three have overtly been involved in the 'war against terror' while Ms Bhutto had pledged many times to wipe out the extremists and terrorists if she was returned to power. All were seen as 'American agents' or 'puppets'."

"Indeed, in many of the al-Qaeda attacks on the armed forces and paramilitary forces, especially those in Islamabad and Rawalpindi, low-level 'insider' elements with contacts with the Lal Masjid, which was part of the al-Qaeda network, are known to have been involved," the article said.

"How else can one explain the al-Qaeda attacks on ISI busses in Islamabad in which civilian employees of the agency have been killed?"

Pointing out at Baitullah Mehsud, the newspaper said "an al Qaeda-Taliban warlord based in Waziristan", had said he had trained "hundreds of suicide bombers" and was determined to kill Bhutto because she was an "American agent".

Insisting that there is "not much room for doubt" about al-Qaeda being "a Pakistani phenomenon", it wrote: "Ayman Al-Zawahiri, the number two al-Qaeda man, has already gone public in his exhortations to Pakistanis to overthrow the Musharraf regime. Indeed, last September Osama bin Laden declared a 'jihad' against the Musharraf regime.

The article said Bhutto's killing raised two important questions -- who killed her and why, and impact of her death on her Pakistan People's Party and Pakistani politics.

"Most Pakistanis are by instinct inclined to believe that the "agencies" did it. This is the easy explanation for anything that happens in this country which is either inexplicable or unpalatable," it said.

"All political assassinations in Pakistan remain inexplicable .... But the truth of Ms Bhutto's assassination may also be subliminally unacceptable to many Pakistanis because a religious or 'Islamist' element may be at its unpleasant core," it said.

"Now al-Qaida's primary targets are President Musharraf and Maulana Fazlur Rehman (Islamic alliance MMA leader) and its sole objective is to destabilise Pakistan and sow the seeds of anarchy by scuttling its halting transition to a moderate democracy."

 

[firefight]

Many muslims are being labelled "al-queda" in an effort by the west to label all the
muslims as terrorists. A good example of this would be recently in Australia a muslim
Indian doctor was found to be involved in some terrorism and he was labelled as AL-queda and could not understand why. The labelling strips an individual and demonizes
them and justifies any force used against them. Many have said that the war on terror
is a war on muslims, and until proven differently that is what it appears to be.

 

[Astra]

Al-Qaida will continue to exist, till the muslims of the world stop thinking terrorism as religious

No doubts, no questions, period.
Anyone want to argue just for the sake of arguing?