Can a religious person be a good scientist?

[Sky lord]

its hallucination or some form of epilepsy

No proof.

Out of Body Experience is a complicated problem but major breakthroughs have been made in inducing it on test subjects(which either means the phenomenon is psychological and can be artificially induced or scientists made the test subject's soul temporarily leave the body...you choose)

Thanks.

Do you have a link to above quoted? I would be interested to see scientific work on out of body experiences.

I have a colleague who claims that when he was in the OR after a motorcycle accident at the age of 18, he was later on able to describe vivdly the clothes his parents wore in the other room, what they were talking about etc. there was no way for him to know this information. He was in a coma for several days. I don't think this guy is lying ......

 

[Yaseen1]

you have not experienced what I have experienced so you cannot understand it.Islam never stop us from gaining scientific knowledge the problem with Muslim scholars is that they have started feeding on the money of Zakat which is for poor and needy only and they donot try to think and work hard because they are getting money easily.this is the reason we are backward and this is due to moving away from Islamic teachings

And I understand you fully.
I was 100% like you.

Let me tell you a quick story.
When I was 19 I failed a math class and got kicked out of collage. This was a terrible time in my life... What was I going to say to be parents? Oh the bastey..... So I prayed, I prayed hard and what do you know.... My math teacher took pitty on me and raised my mark just enough to pass, but still had to re do the class.

I was saved, faith works!!

Now that I'm older and have a science degree, I understand that good and bad things happen to everyone. Faith or not. Drug dealers have days where they almost hey caught by police but miraculously get saved.... Did they have faith?

Good people go in pilgrimages and die in crowds.... Did they not have enough faith?


Point is, you can use faith to justify anything. The only thing that really matters is outcome.

Outcome is Muslim world is living in Stone age compared to non Muslims, and the reason for that is that Muslim today ignore the world and " read Quran" only.

We need to go back to the original Muslims and question everything, even Quran.

 

[Rusty]

you have not experienced what I have experienced so you cannot understand it.Islam never stop us from gaining scientific knowledge the problem with Muslim scholars is that they have started feeding on the money of Zakat which is for poor and needy only and they donot try to think and work hard because they are getting money easily.this is the reason we are backward and this is due to moving away from Islamic teachings

That's exactly the point. You can't run society on religion since everyone's experience is different.

We need to secularize, and keep our faith very personal, between us and God.

Society should be run by evidence based practices and not faith. Only then can Muslims hope to survive in the modern age.

 

[Yaseen1]

That's exactly the point. You can't run society on religion since everyone's experience is different.

We need to secularize, and keep our faith very personal, between us and God.

Society should be run by evidence based practices and not faith. Only then can Muslims hope to survive in the modern age.

religion is required to keep our soul fulfilled as we cannot see our soul and it cannot be nourished with appernt objects of this world

 

[Kathin_Singh]

We are neither devoted religious men nor scientists.

But commenting about how to be both at the same time.

 

[Slav Defence]

First of all,

The main problem: We are dragging science into religion not society

Science is all about practical work and investigation.It is as incompatible and juvenile to prove God's presence or God's absence.Hence, "faith" of 85% percent of scientists to reject presence of God is as useless and insignificant for me as "faith" of believers for them.Since, this juvenile and modern technology approach has nothing to explain about prove of absence or presence of God.They use the same tool of "unseen belief" as believers.Hence, it is a matter of choice and tool used in both cases is logic and reasoning.
Scientific related intelligence has nothing to do with having faith or not. In fact, it has to do with social thinking and grooming and more specifically with masculine and feminine education before parenthood and their interest.It also has to do with what media is feeding you and how much brain do you use in your everyday life.
I ask you that in Pakistan, how many science related channels are there? I haven't seen any single channel that discusses science like national geography or discovery.
Yes, we might have one channel: Health tv but again it is not working upto the mark.95% of our channels constantly bombards and blabbers about love, sex, romance, social rights, politics, b-grade bar dance and some action drama.Show me one program like cosmos aired by Pakistani media though we have finest speakers and lecturers out there.
Hence, pick a card and any card you will find yourself socially and morally lacking scientific discussion.The fact is that at 2017 our moms discuss saas-bahu dramas and when their sons/daughters arrive at home with some little scientific project, it becomes a headache for them. Scientific platforms are not wide spread- if I want to discuss science then I must get enrolled in a university as except a boring old university teacher or school teacher nobody is ready to discuss science.Uh oh, not every teacher is interested anyway.
You want to know why muslims flourished during their golden age and invented stuff like acids, scientific instruments like flasks and other basic tools? b/c there was a time when academic related topics were centre of discussion.There was not a single home in muslim ruled Spain which does not have library.People used to ask about books and do all that.What is the centre of attention nowadays: "MQM, PML-N, PTI, Pakistani movie, Bipasha Basu, Kareena Kapoor, and Bilawal bhutto. Among woman: Fashion, style, marriage, break-ups, make-up, love affairs and saas bahu rona dhona.
Where is science?How you expect to remember and logically use your brain, become capable to think if you will not bring science into your discussion?That is why you always remember songs and not formulas.That is why you remember names of top ten hot indian/Pakistani actresses but not scientists.That is why you have to rote learn short note on applications of chemicals during your exams.That is why you have failed to produce quality scientists as no one is there to discuss with you and provide you freedom and platform.
Now look at west, DIY electrophorasis at school, DIY glowing yogurt at home, DIY pencils tricks at home, DIY math tricks at home, a six year old child can extract DNA in west b/c he knows how to play with table salt and cleaning surf.

Bring science at your home, at your backyard, at your discussion and society!

@Syed.Ali.Haider Sir,you posted a very nice article back then in survey I thread that highlighted one-fourth of problems.Here is 1/4th portion of big issues
The other one-fourth was also posted earlier in following thread
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...ution-oficial-says.503189/page-8#post-9606725

regards

 

[Sky lord]

you know, I did a lot of research into this and wanted to know why Muslims were so strong in Science in the early days but now are pathetic.

The traditional narrative was basically this, Muslims were better Muslims back then and now we are not.

However, after watching Neil Degrass Tyson's argument on this subject, I am now convinced that this is not the case.

The real answer is that Muslims were very open to new ideas and ways of doing things in the early days.
Think of it as a mold. The mold of "orthodox Islam" was still wet in the early days and people had a lot of freedom to think and tinker.

However, as time went on, people started to build strong Ideas of what "Islam" was, and once the mold was dry, people stopped thinking for themselves and just said "Only God knows"

This was the death of Islam as an intellectual power house.
And honestly, the future of Islam and Muslims are very bleak until we can break out of this mind set.

Here is the video that really got me thinking this way

I have heard this one before where Neil DT. Says that the point at which imam al ghazali of Baghdad states that mathematics was "the work of the devil". Was the point from which science started dying in the Middle East.

 

[Rusty]

I have heard this one before where Neil DT. Says that the point at which imam al ghazali of Baghdad states that mathematics was "the work of the devil". Was the point from which science started dying in the Middle East.

This is what makes me so sad

I have heard my own extended family say that anything outside the Quran is usless.

Well.... That's the reason Pakistan is such a super power I guess

 

[Anubis]

No proof.



Thanks.

Do you have a link to above quoted? I would be interested to see scientific work on out of body experiences.

I have a colleague who claims that when he was in the OR after a motorcycle accident at the age of 18, he was later on able to describe vivdly the clothes his parents wore in the other room, what they were talking about etc. there was no way for him to know this information. He was in a coma for several days. I don't think this guy is lying ......

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...ists-confirm-out-of-body-experiences-are-REAL

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2869/d97650f4778f5e7ab046985bc760d9de2cde.pdf

Although it does not explain the case that you put forward(I am not sure there is enough study out there to explain it at this time) but it is a start in studying which parts of the brain maybe responsible for OOBE.

 

[VCheng]

@Syed.Ali.Haider Sir,you posted a very nice article back then in survey I thread that highlighted one-fourth of problems.Here is 1/4th portion of big issues
The other one-fourth was also posted earlier in following thread
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/turk...ution-oficial-says.503189/page-8#post-9606725

regards

Suffice to say that both religion and science are in deep trouble in Pakistan.

 

[Slav Defence]

Suffice to say that both religion and science are in deep trouble in Pakistan.

Did you read the post in the link? The real essence lies there.Banning evolution from schools b/c students get confused.Read it and tell me how silly is this?Instead of upgrading teachers, they are downgrading syllabus.

regards

 

[VCheng]

Did you read the post in the link? The real essence lies there.Banning evolution from schools b/c students get confused.Read it and tell me how silly is this?Instead of upgrading teachers, they are downgrading syllabus.

regards

Yes, I did read the post. Pakistani society is confused about both religion and science, even the so-called educated class. Many other (mainly Muslim) countries are struggling with the same issues.

 

[prashantazazel]

How then do you explain religious experiences?

They are much more common than you think.

People who have profound experiences that can only be explained in religious terms. People who can describe what happened in another room while they were under anasthesia in an OT. People who know suddenly when someone close to them is in real trouble or pain. People who can describe past lives in great detail.


These are not crazy people. And There are a lot of them.

Anecdotal evidence is not taken seriously in the world of science.

Why do the poor and less educated ones seem to have more of such experiences?
Are such experiences observed in atheist majority countries at similar frequencies? Say Sweden.

 

[HeinzG]

Indeed. Unless of course he does studies in deep astronomy, geology or biological anthropology.