Campaign against Huawei faces embarrassing reality

[BringHarmony]

Why did we need horseless carriage? Horses were fine.
Why did we need electricity, candles were fine
Why did we need iron, wood sticks were fine.

Read my question completely, Why do we need 5G, NOW. We can surely introduce it after a year or so when competitors to Chinese equipment have mass production capability ready.

BTW, your comparison is broken. Comparison between 5G and 3G or 4G is not same as between horses and cars or candle and electricity.
I will give a better comparison : Why is it that petroleum and electric cars are a thing and hydrogen powered cars are still not a thing? Surely Hydrogen is more energy efficient than batteries and petroleum?

 

[Rusty]

Read my question completely, Why do we need 5G, NOW. We can surely introduce it after a year or so when competitors to Chinese equipment have mass production capability ready.

BTW, your comparison is broken. Comparison between 5G and 3G or 4G is not same as between horses and cars or candle and electricity.
I will give a better comparison : Why is it that petroleum and electric cars are a thing and hydrogen powered cars are still not a thing? Surely Hydrogen is more energy efficient than batteries and petroleum?

Fair, but remember, in the tech world the difference between world leader and obsolete can be mere months.

 

[Jlaw]

Fair, but remember, in the tech world the difference between world leader and obsolete can be mere months.

Indian want to pay more for everything. They are not good at being leaders but good for being an end user. But yeah not sure why India doesn't go back to 14 kbps modems.

 

[somsak]

Read my question completely, Why do we need 5G, NOW. We can surely introduce it after a year or so when competitors to Chinese equipment have mass production capability ready.

BTW, your comparison is broken. Comparison between 5G and 3G or 4G is not same as between horses and cars or candle and electricity.
I will give a better comparison : Why is it that petroleum and electric cars are a thing and hydrogen powered cars are still not a thing? Surely Hydrogen is more energy efficient than batteries and petroleum?

Because Internet of thing will use a lot of bandwidth!. In the coming IoT (internet of thing) era, things will speak. TVs, fridges, homes will speak. They will communicate with Al, and human with Videos, Sensor data in real time. The communication will be between server far far away, and the client. Therefore, it needs fast internet network. Now suppose some country can have the fast network, call them 5G or what ever, the application of A.I in that country will have a head start. Meaning that the business model, customer preference, and new network-heavy applications will be test on the market first. Hence the business comparative advantages. This is what I guess. For there has never been a country which can lead the world in technology-business other than USA since long time ago.

 

[BringHarmony]

Because Internet of thing will use a lot of bandwidth!. In the coming IoT (internet of thing) era, things will speak. TVs, fridges, homes will speak. They will communicate with Al, and human with Videos, Sensor data in real time. The communication will be between server far far away, and the client. Therefore, it needs fast internet network. Now suppose some country can have the fast network, call them 5G or what ever, the application of A.I in that country will have a head start. Meaning that the business model, customer preference, and new network-heavy applications will be test on the market first. Hence the business comparative advantages. This is what I guess. For there has never been a country which can lead the world in technology-business other than USA since long time ago.

Okay so few things:

1. Do you know how many bytes a simple IoT sensor sends per second? A temperature sensor sends a M2M message once say per 2 seconds or so. Payload size is measly 4 KB or so. A typical 1 mbps (128 Kilobytes per second) 3G connection can accomodate 32 such devices. This is just one connection. Not to mention, most of the IoT sensors/actuators which are getting popular are around home automation. And in all of those usecases, you have WiFi. These sensors are not mobile actually. They may be wireless but not mobile.

BTW, for comparison, a simple HD video takes 6 Mbps and still run fine on 4g connections.

2. Problem with AI is not that of bandwidth. Do you know what is the main limiting problem with AI these days? Its data. As in training data. Labelled or cleaned. Having lots of bandwidth and connectivity is not the issue. Its media fluff.

Actually to be honest, south korea has been on fore-front of mobile telecom for quite some time now. Even in North America, telecom technologies proliferate slower than South Korea.

 

[BringHarmony]

Fair, but remember, in the tech world the difference between world leader and obsolete can be mere months.

Quite the opposite actually. I have seen interiors of a number of data centers owing to my work in HVAC. A lot of them use dated technologies like optical drives, dot matrix printers for critical logs, ethernet on BNC cables!!

Actually, the more 'tech' looks shiny from outside, more it is old and crummy from inside.

A large majority of our 'tech' infra is still running stuff made in 80s! Like IPv4.

https://www.networkworld.com/articl...ill-growing-after-six-years-on-the-march.html
https://www.networkworld.com/article/3254575/lan-wan/what-is-ipv6-and-why-aren-t-we-there-yet.html

 

[Kyle Sun]

Read my question completely, Why do we need 5G, NOW. We can surely introduce it after a year or so when competitors to Chinese equipment have mass production capability ready.

BTW, your comparison is broken. Comparison between 5G and 3G or 4G is not same as between horses and cars or candle and electricity.
I will give a better comparison : Why is it that petroleum and electric cars are a thing and hydrogen powered cars are still not a thing? Surely Hydrogen is more energy efficient than batteries and petroleum?

When it comes to the high tech industry, every company will do whatever they can to seize the initiative which can bring them a huge advantage over their competitors. It is a now or never situation. The world will be Huawei's oyster if there is no politic reason involved.
This is exactly why the US is going doolally.

 

[Beast]

Honestly, why do we even need 5G right now? There are no mobile applications which need 5G's bandwidth and there are lots of WiFi hotspots in all the major European and North American cities.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bijank...tonomous-cars-wont-work-until-we-have-5g/amp/

Autonomous Cars Won't Work - Until We Have 5G

 

[BringHarmony]

When it comes to the high tech industry, every company will do whatever they can to seize the initiative which can bring them a huge advantage over their competitors.

Yes, however technology is not the only thing. Here in Canada, one of the popular mobile provider is called quikr. They became popular because they gave 3G at a very nominal price while 4G folks were charging a lot. And that too without a contract.

It is a now or never situation. The world will be Huawei's oyster if there is no politic reason involved.
T

Ha Ha! When China used political barriers to prevent entry of foreign companies, it was all kosher and when other countries do, China feels the heat.

This is exactly why the US is going doolally.

Will China allow US companies to provide internet in China unrestricted? I highly doubt that will happen.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bijank...tonomous-cars-wont-work-until-we-have-5g/amp/

Autonomous Cars Won't Work - Until We Have 5G

Actually that a lot of marketing fluff. To be honest, judging by the current coverage of existing networks, 5G won't be enough for self driving cars.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/qvzd3v/5g-network-wont-be-good-enough-for-autonomous-cars

The 5G Network Probably Won’t Be Good Enough for Self-Driving Cars

 

[Sliver]

Okay so few things:

1. Do you know how many bytes a simple IoT sensor sends per second? A temperature sensor sends a M2M message once say per 2 seconds or so. Payload size is measly 4 KB or so. A typical 1 mbps (128 Kilobytes per second) 3G connection can accomodate 32 such devices. This is just one connection. Not to mention, most of the IoT sensors/actuators which are getting popular are around home automation. And in all of those usecases, you have WiFi. These sensors are not mobile actually. They may be wireless but not mobile.

BTW, for comparison, a simple HD video takes 6 Mbps and still run fine on 4g connections.

2. Problem with AI is not that of bandwidth. Do you know what is the main limiting problem with AI these days? Its data. As in training data. Labelled or cleaned. Having lots of bandwidth and connectivity is not the issue. Its media fluff.

Actually to be honest, south korea has been on fore-front of mobile telecom for quite some time now. Even in North America, telecom technologies proliferate slower than South Korea.

IoT is what 5G will help. and its not the size of the payload that 5G helps - its the speed. the current algos and data crunching requires data to come in at much faster speeds. the bottleneck right now in a chain of IoT feeds is no longer the CPU (with parallel processing, cloud infra) but the speed of the network.

an IoT data packet would reach 1000 times faster with 5G - so will the response to that packet to the end user.

 

[Kyle Sun]

Ha Ha! When China used political barriers to prevent entry of foreign companies, it was all kosher and when other countries do, China feels the heat.


Will China allow US companies to provide internet in China unrestricted? I highly doubt that will happen.


Actually that a lot of marketing fluff. To be honest, judging by the current coverage of existing networks, 5G won't be enough for self driving cars.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/qvzd3v/5g-network-wont-be-good-enough-for-autonomous-cars

The 5G Network Probably Won’t Be Good Enough for Self-Driving Cars

Actually, China had an agreement with the US and all other WTO members on when and how we open our market during WTO negotiation. We are simply following the rule of WTO. Your argument is baseless.

 

[BringHarmony]

IoT is what 5G will help. and its not the size of the payload that 5G helps - its the speed. the current algos and data crunching requires data to come in at much faster speeds. the bottleneck right now in a chain of IoT feeds is no longer the CPU (with parallel processing, cloud infra) but the speed of the network.

an IoT data packet would reach 1000 times faster with 5G - so will the response to that packet to the end user.

You do know that in networks there are three components of delay.

1. Transmission delay (number of bits to be transmitted / effective bandwidth) -- This is what you are referring to as speed.
2. Propagation delay (time for 1 bit to go back and forth between transmitter and reciver) : This has a lower limit : ie the speed of light.
3. Queuing delay. (Time spent for message in between, usually due to congestion). For wireless communication, this delay is dependent upon number of channels because wireless media by definition is shared media.

Bandwidth is simply one component. When you packet size is small, bandwidth is not exactly the limiting criteria. Propagation delay and queuing becomes more important.

IoT applications usually do not require that much bandwidth because the applications are very specific. The reason your laptop or tablet requires so much bandwidth is because they are flexible for almost any application. You use same laptop for playing games which is a latency sensitive application and for watching videos which is a bandwidth and latency variation sensitive application.

Anyways, all of this discussion still does not answer a major elephant in the room. Leaving vehicular applications, most of IoT applications do not require mobile part of wireless networks. And for non-mobile networks we have already existing infransture in form of WiFi/WiMax etc.

5G is a solution looking for a problem. The problems do not exactly fit it.

Actually, China had an agreement with the US and all other WTO members on when and how we open our market during WTO negotiation. We are simply following the rule of WTO. Your argument is baseless.

Nope. Read this : https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/05/news/economy/china-foreign-companies-restrictions/index.html

Its only recently western governments have started to put political barriers to Chinese business demands. Previously, it was purely market driven model.

 

[Sliver]

most of IoT applications do not require mobile part of wireless networks.

not true -
most IoT devices in home or Industrial setting will be using wireless tech to transmit data - imagine having to send data via wires or all going to one modem/transmission point before being transferred to destination.

2. Propagation delay (time for 1 bit to go back and forth between transmitter and reciver) : This has a lower limit : ie the speed of light.
3. Queuing delay. (Time spent for message in between, usually due to congestion). For wireless communication, this delay is dependent upon number of channels because wireless media by definition is shared media.

both the above will be solved by increased transmission speed - increased speed - less clogging because many messages/data packets are recieved quickly by the end point.

5G is a solution looking for a problem. The problems do not exactly fit it.

there is no problem if 5G does not exist - many countries currently are still stuck in 3G. but having 5G increases the products and ecosystems around IoT - thats something that can take countries to the next level. hence the intense fight among top countries to reach there first.
also - the guys creating the 5G products will ship it to rest of the world - and be able to snoop on IoT level data - hence the alarm on chinese products for the US

 

[BringHarmony]

not true -
most IoT devices in home or Industrial setting will be using wireless tech to transmit data - imagine having to send data via wires or all going to one modem/transmission point before being transferred to destination.

Yes but wireless does not imply mobile. WiFi is wireless too. You don't always need range of mobility which comes with mobile networks like GSM.

 

[somsak]

Okay so few things:

1. Do you know how many bytes a simple IoT sensor sends per second? A temperature sensor sends a M2M message once say per 2 seconds or so. Payload size is measly 4 KB or so. A typical 1 mbps (128 Kilobytes per second) 3G connection can accomodate 32 such devices. This is just one connection. Not to mention, most of the IoT sensors/actuators which are getting popular are around home automation. And in all of those usecases, you have WiFi. These sensors are not mobile actually. They may be wireless but not mobile.

BTW, for comparison, a simple HD video takes 6 Mbps and still run fine on 4g connections.

2. Problem with AI is not that of bandwidth. Do you know what is the main limiting problem with AI these days? Its data. As in training data. Labelled or cleaned. Having lots of bandwidth and connectivity is not the issue. Its media fluff.

Actually to be honest, south korea has been on fore-front of mobile telecom for quite some time now. Even in North America, telecom technologies proliferate slower than South Korea.

Your mind is a snapshort of what the world should be like based on current technological snapshot. However, the technology games are playing on roadmap. You can say "Ok" currently its enough. I will show you a picture to answer you.

Suppose country A has very cheap and very fast internet, while country B has quite fast internet and quite cheap, meaning A is better on both domain. On country A, a streaming IP camera to server application, which stream through 5G to do image processing on a Super computer server, which is also calculating AI for 1 million other IP cameras is feasible. While on Country B it is less feasible, the same server can only calculate 100,000 subscribers. The adoption rate on Country A is therefore faster, and larger. The margin of country A can be thinner, thus cheaper. When the two companies of the same application for the customer of Country C, you know which technology will be chosen.