Cameron wants 'new special relationship' with India

[genetic_nomad]

parashuram, letsbefriends: guys give it rest, no need to argue on petty details. I for one am a half hindu and half sikh,so thanks for your kind words on both religions. now shake hands and get on with life

 

[r3alist]

a lot of hindu's vote tory, alot more than muslims for sure, its the only ethnic vote the tories can have some numbers in.

 

[letsbefriends]

parashuram, letsbefriends: guys give it rest, no need to argue on petty details. I for one am a half hindu and half sikh,so thanks for your kind words on both religions. now shake hands and get on with life

not arguing buddy.jst giving a point..i said in my post NO OFFENCES...

 

[dvk1982]

I don't care about your history under later centuries as it means little to me. The point is about your embarrassment in being called a Hindu. This is indeed short-sighted and liberal-wannabe sign. What is more surprising is a European here is to tell you this!

Read the comment that follows yours. This might perhaps broaden your perspective.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

PS: I am sure that as an Indian national you might be aware that the other faiths that you mentioned especially Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism share core values and concepts as mainstream Hinduism. Are you not? Don't be surprised. Switzerland has a small Sikh population and they have been very respectful towards acquainting us with the concept of how similar Indian branches of one faith are.

u r correct, even buddha in some hindu scripts is considered as the new avatar of Vishnu (Hindu god). Sikhism till 1930s was officially considered a distinct sect of Hinduism broadly speaking. Jainism and others are all derivatives of Hinduism if u can call sooo... in India ideally only christianity and islam are completely different...

 

[gubbi]

I am insulted, he only speaks of Hindu's .

This is BJP pandering.
India should not be represent by Hinduism alone.
You take all its people.

what about India muslims
Jains
and sikhs and so on

his generalised comments on Hinduism , are the same as saying all Muslims are terrorists.
except this is a positive connotation as opposed to a negative one.

I hope this man will not be PM.
I don't like his statements , or what he was attempting to do with them

You do make an excellent point. I am not being the devil's advocate here, but IMHO, Hindu way of life, so to speak, generally describes the Indian way of life, the principles which guide the population of the sub-continent - they be of any faith and religion.

Hindu, AFAIK and understand, is a misnomer to describe and group a people following certain traditions and faith, under the definition of a religion. Hinduism is not a religion, as the standard definition goes. But more of a way of life, a tradition of a people, the principles governing the everyday life of a people! So when one says a Hindu way of life, it generally describes the common traditions of the people of the Indian subcontinent. And that encompasses the traditions and principles of all the faiths being followed in the vast land!

 

[adir]

Cameron Will be also good for israel:
i am happy that the labor dident won and the liberal democrat.

 

[Bang Galore]

You do make an excellent point. I am not being the devil's advocate here, but IMHO, Hindu way of life, so to speak, generally describes the Indian way of life, the principles which guide the population of the sub-continent - they be of any faith and religion.

Hindu, AFAIK and understand, is a misnomer to describe and group a people following certain traditions and faith, under the definition of a religion. Hinduism is not a religion, as the standard definition goes. But more of a way of life, a tradition of a people, the principles governing the everyday life of a people! So when one says a Hindu way of life, it generally describes the common traditions of the people of the Indian subcontinent. And that encompasses the traditions and principles of all the faiths being followed in the vast land!

Not to put too fine a point on it, do you actually think that Cameron understood the above and made his statement in that context? I have no issue whatsoever with Cameron's statement in as much I believe that he was doing what politicians do and any praise of India & its culture is always welcome. You are absolutely correct in your argument from a philosophical point of view but most non Hindus don't see it that way.

u r correct, even buddha in some hindu scripts is considered as the new avatar of Vishnu (Hindu god). Sikhism till 1930s was officially considered a distinct sect of Hinduism broadly speaking. Jainism and others are all derivatives of Hinduism if u can call sooo... in India ideally only christianity and islam are completely different...

Unnecessary. All that such arguments do is raise hackles.
Buddha was incorporated into the Hindu faith to undermine Buddhism's appeal as a seperate religion.
Buddhism & Jainism are atheistic religions and their scriptures are scathing about the vedic practices & philosophy as prevailing then. They are not derivatives of hinduism unless you are arguing what gubbi has said.

BTW, you forgot Judaism & Zoroastrianism.

 

[chachachoudhary]

Not to put too fine a point on it, do you actually think that Cameron understood the above and made his statement in that context? I have no issue whatsoever with Cameron's statement in as much I believe that he was doing what politicians do and any praise of India & its culture is always welcome. You are absolutely correct in your argument from a philosophical point of view but most non Hindus don't see it that way.



Unnecessary. All that such arguments do is raise hackles.
Buddha was incorporated into the Hindu faith to undermine Buddhism's appeal as a seperate religion.
Buddhism & Jainism are atheistic religions and their scriptures are scathing about the vedic practices & philosophy as prevailing then. They are not derivatives of hinduism unless you are arguing what gubbi has said.

BTW, you forgot Judaism & Zoroastrianism.

It will be offtopic to reply to your post. If you want to really discuss above points, open a new thread and I will give you a good reply.

First learn something about Hinduism and then dare to comment. I agree everybody has a right of opinion, but when you are expressing it on a forum you should strongly back it with logic.

Yes, India is secular, but Hindus have a separate identity. Hindus need not carry the burden of India's twisted secularism everywhere they go. They have full right to maintain a separate, unique identity as "Hindus" and if somebody is praising these hindus for the good work they do, I feel nobody need to feel insecure.

 

[gogbot]

I don't care about your history under later centuries as it means little to me.

Fair enough, but , my point was to show , i lack no national pride or identity. Sorry for the rant.

The point is about your embarrassment in being called a Hindu.

But i am not a Hindu , and neither is India. They is more to India then what religion is practices by it majority population.
It is mis-representation and i simply do now like it.

For me personally , it is not a matter of Hindu or any other religion ,
I simply do not believe in the existence of a "god" or "gods" . Be added to a religious group , is not where i want to be.

This is indeed short-sighted and liberal-wannabe sign. What is more surprising is a European here is to tell you this!

I don't get what you mean , and i have nothing against religion. except a little liberal smugness perhaps.

But like i said i did not like Cameron mis-represent India as a Hindu state. Hinduism is a major part of India , but it is not India.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

of course , i have no intention of trying to change your opinions , but only to make mine more clear

PS: I am sure that as an Indian national you might be aware that the other faiths that you mentioned especially Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism share core values and concepts as mainstream Hinduism. Are you not? Don't be surprised. Switzerland has a small Sikh population and they have been very respectful towards acquainting us with the concept of how similar Indian branches of one faith are.

All region have a similarity's. It is not limited to just Indian faiths.

If people actually took the time to see , most "successful" (no dis-respect) religions follow the same threads , in their messages and faith. Slight variations aside , All faith is the same thread.

But what i don't get is how you managed to OT on this .

My only issues was Cameron , pandering to India , using Hindu majority , and as a result misrepresenting India as Hindu state. Which it is not.
religion has not place in politics , Cameron should not have mixed business with India , with his feeling about Hindu's.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

sure all you may be thinking what's the big deal that he has done this.
but your just seeing one side of the coin he just flipped.

The headline could have well be about discriminating against religion . had this all been in a negative conotation

(keep in mind , this example is not to represent any real religion or nation , but only an example)

Cameron wants 'more though relationship' with country A

David Cameron, the man most likely to take over as the next Prime Minister of Britain, has promised to take a "new though relationship" with country A and do everything in his power to bring sanctions on Country A.

Cameron, who made his first overseas visit as leader of the Conservative party to country A in 2006, has been in close touch with the Country A community, appalled the '***** way of life'.

He has often witnessed large gatherings of country A spiritual leader ********* in Britain.
At 43, he will join the ranks of Tony Blair who was also 43 when he became the Prime Minister in 1997. Blair was the youngest person to hold the apex office since Lord Liverpool in 1812, at the age of 42.

His party's manifesto says that the party will "work to establish a new though relationship with Country.

"The ***** community is a perfect example of the discriminatory , suppressive, attitude we cannot have in our country,"

____________________________________________________

Well , you don't want to read that , you don't want to here a leader of another country , talking about how ****** represents all your nation. And at the same time talk about a relationship their home country . As if the to are some how interlinked.

____________________________________________________

Sure in India's case , this was all in good light , i am happy that the Hindu community in India has made a good name for itself , and is a respected part of the community. But they alone do not represent India.

He should not have talked about supporting India's political ambitions while , while trying to appeal to the British Hindu community or any of India's religious community's for that matter.

My point stands , he should not have spoken about both at the same time.

if he wanted to show his apprecitaion for The Indian Hindu community in Britain , if he felt he should , ha can do so. I have no objection. This would be good news to me , even

If he wanted to support India's UNSC bid and forge a new relationship with them. it is even better news for me.

What he should not have done is speak about them together as if they are both interlinked.

To me as a result , he felt completely disingenuous.
and i my self felt misrepresented.

I had nothing against Cameron up till now. But now i just don't trust him.

 

[gogbot]

Calm down dude,calm down to be frank no country in this world is secular every country has always been close to its roots.
Heck even USA is not secular they have cristian symbols and jesus as their state princples.

From my own understanding it is highly impossible to wipe off religion from politics,but what is important is to wipe off fundamentalisic ideology of religion from politics,so if some one relates india to hinduism i donot have a problem,Y dont u think USA is a cristian principled country??

The fact that a cristian lady has to break a coconut in hindu traditions with sanskrit vedic chantings highlights how close india is to hinduism and i have no problems with this fact when i think of how we as a majotiry hindu country have been successfull to avoid fundamentalistic principles from our politics when compared to bangladesh,pakistan middle east etc etc..

I again stress no country in this planet is secular even the strongest communists (china ) favours Han buddhists as seen in xingiang..

plz donot wash ur dirty lenin in public.

If David Cameron , wanted to speak about a "new special relationship" with America.

He would not do so , while parsing Christians and their moral and ethical values at the same.

He would have spoken to them as a PM candidate , speaking to America.
___________________________________________

If you cant realise , that what he just did was represent india as a Hindu state in he world stage, something , i personally have not seen till now.

And i don't like it , neither should you.

 

[gogbot]

dude why bringing in BJP here...? completly OT.
honestly speaking they r the only true secular party in India...others are just pseudo-sickularists.
Which party wants uniform civil code(all religion are equal) -BJP
BJP have never said that Hindus should get reservation,should get welfare first,that Amarnath or vaishnodevi trips be subsidised.
Then how can u equate BJP with communalism..?
Yeah they came to power by using hindutva plank....but which party doesnt use religion in India..?
When it is perfectly secular,non-communal to use Muslim,Christian votebanks why the pseudo-sickularists cry wolf when a party says every citizen should be equal and has a hindutva (all are same) agenda..?
Isnt it just plain hypocrisy??

dude i apologise ,
it was a mistake for me to bring the BJP into this.

despite my own persoanl feeling about the BJP , it was wrong of me, i should not have just tossed their name around

 

[psychedelic_renegade]

It will be offtopic to reply to your post. If you want to really discuss above points, open a new thread and I will give you a good reply.

First learn something about Hinduism and then dare to comment. I agree everybody has a right of opinion, but when you are expressing it on a forum you should strongly back it with logic.

Yes, India is secular, but Hindus have a separate identity. Hindus need not carry the burden of India's twisted secularism everywhere they go. They have full right to maintain a separate, unique identity as "Hindus" and if somebody is praising these hindus for the good work they do, I feel nobody need to feel insecure.

Again, for the umpteenth time, Hindus have full right and everything to maintain separate identity and I see no trouble if anyone wants to stick to hindutva, the problem arises when someone misrepresent hindu community in Britain as India. A major part of Indian culture? yes indeed.

 

[KS]

dude i apologise ,
it was a mistake for me to bring the BJP into this.

despite my own persoanl feeling about the BJP , it was wrong of me, i should not have just tossed their name around

no need to apologise..everyone is entitled to their opinions..wether right or wrong..

Any ways apology accepted.....

Indian first and Last...Hindu in-between...

 

[KS]

Again, for the umpteenth time, Hindus have full right and everything to maintain separate identity and I see no trouble if anyone wants to stick to hindutva, the problem arises when someone misrepresent hindu community in Britain as India. A major part of Indian culture? yes indeed.

Dude y we r twisting wat Cameron said innocently to a new level..?

He was sitting in a hindu function and wat u expect him to say..?
For us it may mean that he s leaving the other religions behind..
But think from a European POV..To them Hindu means Indian and Indian means hindu..This is from I repeat a ordinary European POV...jus like we associate Islam with Saudi.

So instead of pandering over the neagative connotations..we can consider the positive image the hindus have created over india and take it as a compliment.

p.s.: No offence to any religion..Indian first....Jai Hind

 

[psychedelic_renegade]

Dude y we r twisting wat Cameron said innocently to a new level..?

He was sitting in a hindu function and wat u expect him to say..?
For us it may mean that he s leaving the other religions behind..
But think from a European POV..To them Hindu means Indian and Indian means hindu..This is from I repeat a ordinary European POV...jus like we associate Islam with Saudi.

So instead of pandering over the neagative connotations..we can consider the positive image the hindus have created over india and take it as a compliment.

p.s.: No offence to any religion..Indian first....Jai Hind

I'm not twisting, I said before that the headline of the article is misleading. Not bothered about European POV, was trying to clear what's Indian POV.