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Good thing you folks were around

Not only Vietnam was around, but what pushed Vietnam to invade was constant incursions by the Khmer Rouge into Vietnam in the Mekong delta killing civilians and burning villages; in one of those incursions they killed more than 300 villagers, they did this for a while, VN warned them to stop, they did not, the last warning was stop or else, this is the last warning, they didn't stop, Vietnam invaded Cambodia. The rest is history. Many people seem to forget those events and talk about Vietnam invading Cambodia as to try to conquer Indochina, but its not true.
 
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Not only Vietnam was around, but what pushed Vietnam to invade was constant incursions by the Khmer Rouge into Vietnam in the Mekong delta killing civilians and burning villages; in one of those incursions they killed more than 300 villages, they did this for a while, VN warned them to stop, they did not, the last warning was stop or else, this is the last warning, they didn't stop, Vietnam invaded Cambodia. The rest is history. Many people seem to forget those events and talk about Vietnam invading Cambodia as to try to conquer Indochina, but its not true.

I knew about this part from wiki but didn't knew Thailand was preparing to invade Cambodia too
 
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I knew about this part from wiki but didn't knew Thailand was preparing to invade Cambodia too

No, we are talking about different time periods; the conflict between Thailand and Cambodia was just a few years ago. These are totally unrelated stories. Vietnam went into Cambodia to help Cambodia defend itself from Thailand, but that in itself stopped the conflict and Vietnam didn't get to fight. Actually, most people don't even know that Viet troops went into Cambodia.

This conflict is related to the Preah Vihear Temple and who has the legal rights to the land around it.
 
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It wouldn't surprise me if Preah Vihear was staged managed by Hun Sen and the Thai military. Hun Sen also had an election last year. Despite all the talk about Vitenamese soldiers hiding in the bushes, Thailand could have easily used their air power but the Thais have so many economic interests in Cambodia they would just be bombing their own assets.
 
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It wouldn't surprise me if Preah Vihear was staged managed by Hun Sen and the Thai military. Hun Sen also had an election last year. Despite all the talk about Vitenamese soldiers hiding in the bushes, Thailand could have easily used their air power but the Thais have so many economic interests in Cambodia they would just be bombing their own assets.

I doubt it, the threat to Cambodia was pretty serious and there was widespread alarm in the region and by others such as USA that the conflict would go into a major war and I'm pretty sure that Vietnam was not going to intervene for something that was staged managed.

This happened in 2011, not last year.

Yes, Thailand has air power, but Vietnam also have it and frankly, if that conflict becomes a 3 party war with Vietnam, Thailand would lose badly and fast.
 
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I'd like to add that during the Thai - Cambodian conflict, pretty much everybody in the region (at the level of governments) knew what was really going on and what the true causes of the conflict was as a conflict created by internal political reasons in Thailand and everybody pretty much supported the Cambodian position, openly or not.

The actual reason why the Viet Army started to move into Cambodia was because Cambodia detected preparations by the Thai army to attack Cambodia in a very wide front and it was perceived that they might try to occupy and annex large areas of Cambodia. The position of the yellow shirts (supported by the army) was so fanatical and extreme in terms of their hard core nationalism and their views that see Cambodia as an ex province of Thailand that should be recaptured, that really alarmed Cambodia and Vietnam, that's why the Viets went in there and that ended up diffusing the situation.

Yes I agree that yellow shirts are playing nationalistic card for internal fractional politic. However, to conclude that Thai army is preparing for large scale capture of Cambodia provinces is way too far, and up to my knowledge, with no evidence of support. May be you can show us the supporting evidence?
 
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Yes I agree that yellow shirts are playing nationalistic card for internal fractional politic. However, to conclude that Thai army is preparing for large scale capture of Cambodia provinces is way too far, and up to my knowledge, with no evidence of support. May be you can show us the supporting evidence?

There is obviously no supporting evidence accessible to us. I would say that its what military intelligence expected at the time or a worry that they had based on the extreme nationalistic views of the yellow shirts and as you know they are very hard core. What I remember myself of that time is that the conflict seemed to be ready to go to a new expanded scale and anyway, if Viet troops start to move into Cambodia is because they see something serious coming, otherwise they would not do it.

As you know (you being a red shirt), the yellow shirts and the military leadership have some pretty dark designs for Thailand, but they will dress everything in a nice, well intentioned, paternalistic frame, but they are indeed very dark people and they will do whatever it takes to achieve their aims. I can only speculate what their aims were at that time, but they are indeed capable of a lot. You know that this coup means the end of real democracy in Thailand as we know it for the foreseeable future right? They are going to set up a new constitution where much of the senate, etc will be appointed so that they will keep the elite in power and people will only have limited representation and no real power.
 
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Thanks for clarify. It's all speculation that Thai army plan large scale war to capture Cambodian Provinces, and that Thai army stopped invasion because they fear of VN! What a speculation so proud of Vietnam!

I don't belief in such speculation because I think yellow shirt leaders only play internal politic. Nothing more, nothing less.
Note that the skirmish we are talking about happened 2011 when Abhisit was Prime Minister. ASEAN common prosperity is central to Thai government regardless of color. I don't think latent yellow shirt leader is going to destroy that for just 4.6 sq. km.

If you follow your own VN post here in this forum, you will see that ASEAN is nothing for them. But for Thailand, it is master peace of her foreign policy. ASEAN was first born under the name of SEATO here in Bangkok.

Finally, everything is just grouping of people. One day, ASEAN may be the name of a united country. Nobody knows. But until then, it is our generation to decide whether to see each other arch enemy or whether to choose friendship and common prosperity. It is our generation to decide whether to wage war and do winner-take-all-looser-loose-all , or to peacefully trade our way to common prosperity of a single people to people community. For whatever way we choose, the natural selection continues.
 
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Thanks for clarify. It's all speculation that Thai army plan large scale war to capture Cambodian Provinces, and that Thai army stopped invasion because they fear of VN! What a speculation so proud of Vietnam!

I don't belief in such speculation because I think yellow shirt leaders only play internal politic. Nothing more, nothing less.
Note that the skirmish we are talking about happened 2011 when Abhisit was Prime Minister. ASEAN common prosperity is central to Thai government regardless of color. I don't think latent yellow shirt leader is going to destroy that for just 4.6 sq. km.

If you follow your own VN post here in this forum, you will see that ASEAN is nothing for them. But for Thailand, it is master peace of her foreign policy. ASEAN was first born under the name of SEATO here in Bangkok.

Finally, everything is just grouping of people. One day, ASEAN may be the name of a united country. Nobody knows. But until then, it is our generation to decide whether to see each other arch enemy or whether to choose friendship and common prosperity. It is our generation to decide whether to wage war and do winner-take-all-looser-loose-all , or to peacefully trade our way to common prosperity of a single people to people community. For whatever way we choose, the natural selection continues.

We are both speculating since neither you or me know what the military and yellow shirts were thinking. Some of what you said makes sense and is rational, but hard core nationalistic fanatics have a tendency to think in no very rational ways and the atmosphere was quite charged at that time and anyway, you don't have an explanation about why Viet troops started to move into Cambodia, something that can only make sense if the conflict is about to escalate.

Well, we are not going to agree in quite a few things and that's ok, but I totally agree with the last part of your post, a win win relationship is always best for everybody, but I think it will take a while to get there.
 
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Cambodian Army's Z-9 Helicopters Crash:



The haunting final cries of the doomed Z-9 helicopter crew echoed through villagers’ minds hours after the Chinese-made military air craft crashed into a deep quarry outside the capital yesterday morning.

Shortly before landing after a routine training flight, things went badly wrong and the pilot began to quickly lose control, prompting desperate pleas for help over the aircraft’s loudspeaker system, witnesses and the sole survivor said.

“I heard them yelling for help. After that, I saw the helicopter smash into the wall of the crater and drop down into the water,” said Doung Kanha, 24, a villager who witnessed the crash while she was taking out the rubbish. “I saw the crew member put his hand up and I thought he was saying goodbye.”

Four bodies were recovered from the crash site and a fifth man managed to survive by jumping from the Z-9 seconds before it struck the side of a 40-metre cliff face surrounding a waterlogged quarry in Dangkor district’s Prey Sar commune.

She said she saw two men escape the wreckage, but one was pulled under by the tail of the sinking helicopter.

“I saw the tail of the helicopter out of the water … and two men swam out from it, but then suddenly one man drowned along with the tail of helicopter,” she said.

Military and police officials yesterday confirmed the dead as Ouk Bunnaha, a brigadier general who commanded the Air Force’s helicopter unit; Brigadier General Eang Vannarith; and trainee pilots Thorn Vanday and Kham Bunnan.

The Z-9 was one of 12 helicopters bought with a $195 million loan from China last year. Officials said yesterday it was the first time the Z-9s had been used to train new pilots.

Minister of Defence Tea Banh, who arrived at the crash site at about 1:30pm, said that it was impossible that there would be any survivors.

“All we can do is search for the bodies, because the pit is very deep. It is not a normal pit: it is a hellish pond. People sank into the water, and there’s no way they could have survived in that water,” he explained.

Banh said it was too early to draw any conclusions regarding what caused the crash as the investigation was ongoing, but hinted at the possibility of a design flaw or mechanical failure.

Major General Hul Sam Oun, commander of the 99 Infantry Battalion, said the initial investigation had concluded “primarily that the reason of the crash is because of engine failure”.

The brother of deceased trainer Eang Vannarith yesterday said he was trained as a pilot in Russia and had clocked up an impressive number of air miles, adding that the family depended on him to make a living.

“I am shocked. I heard of his friends dying in a plane crash at Bokor resort, but now it is my brother’s turn,” he said. “I can’t believe this happened to my family. He was the breadwinner after my parents passed away. He was the one we depended on.”

Another witness, Sok Sambo, 39, said he thought a bomb had gone off before he raced to help the sole survivor, Cheng Chan Sambo, who was struggling to make his way out of the muddy quagmire.

“I heard a sound like a bomb going off,” he said, adding that he and five other villagers rushed to help the survivor make it to shore. “When he was saved, he couldn’t speak much and borrowed my phone to call his workplace to tell them that his chopper had crashed.

Amateur footage of the crash aired on state broadcaster CNC last night showed the Z-9 attempting to land before surging forward into the quarry.

Helicopter crash kills 4 , National, Phnom Penh Post


Chinese+made+Z-9+Cambodian+military+training+helicopter+crash+1[1].jpg


 
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Cambodian Army's Z-9 Helicopters Crash:



The haunting final cries of the doomed Z-9 helicopter crew echoed through villagers’ minds hours after the Chinese-made military air craft crashed into a deep quarry outside the capital yesterday morning.

Shortly before landing after a routine training flight, things went badly wrong and the pilot began to quickly lose control, prompting desperate pleas for help over the aircraft’s loudspeaker system, witnesses and the sole survivor said.

“I heard them yelling for help. After that, I saw the helicopter smash into the wall of the crater and drop down into the water,” said Doung Kanha, 24, a villager who witnessed the crash while she was taking out the rubbish. “I saw the crew member put his hand up and I thought he was saying goodbye.”

Four bodies were recovered from the crash site and a fifth man managed to survive by jumping from the Z-9 seconds before it struck the side of a 40-metre cliff face surrounding a waterlogged quarry in Dangkor district’s Prey Sar commune.

She said she saw two men escape the wreckage, but one was pulled under by the tail of the sinking helicopter.

“I saw the tail of the helicopter out of the water … and two men swam out from it, but then suddenly one man drowned along with the tail of helicopter,” she said.

Military and police officials yesterday confirmed the dead as Ouk Bunnaha, a brigadier general who commanded the Air Force’s helicopter unit; Brigadier General Eang Vannarith; and trainee pilots Thorn Vanday and Kham Bunnan.

The Z-9 was one of 12 helicopters bought with a $195 million loan from China last year. Officials said yesterday it was the first time the Z-9s had been used to train new pilots.

Minister of Defence Tea Banh, who arrived at the crash site at about 1:30pm, said that it was impossible that there would be any survivors.

“All we can do is search for the bodies, because the pit is very deep. It is not a normal pit: it is a hellish pond. People sank into the water, and there’s no way they could have survived in that water,” he explained.

Banh said it was too early to draw any conclusions regarding what caused the crash as the investigation was ongoing, but hinted at the possibility of a design flaw or mechanical failure.

Major General Hul Sam Oun, commander of the 99 Infantry Battalion, said the initial investigation had concluded “primarily that the reason of the crash is because of engine failure”.

The brother of deceased trainer Eang Vannarith yesterday said he was trained as a pilot in Russia and had clocked up an impressive number of air miles, adding that the family depended on him to make a living.

“I am shocked. I heard of his friends dying in a plane crash at Bokor resort, but now it is my brother’s turn,” he said. “I can’t believe this happened to my family. He was the breadwinner after my parents passed away. He was the one we depended on.”

Another witness, Sok Sambo, 39, said he thought a bomb had gone off before he raced to help the sole survivor, Cheng Chan Sambo, who was struggling to make his way out of the muddy quagmire.

“I heard a sound like a bomb going off,” he said, adding that he and five other villagers rushed to help the survivor make it to shore. “When he was saved, he couldn’t speak much and borrowed my phone to call his workplace to tell them that his chopper had crashed.

Amateur footage of the crash aired on state broadcaster CNC last night showed the Z-9 attempting to land before surging forward into the quarry.

Helicopter crash kills 4 , National, Phnom Penh Post


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That particular chinese made helicopter has a well known tendency to crash. They should buy Russian next time.
 
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That particular chinese made helicopter has a well known tendency to crash. They should buy Russian next time.

An internal investigation should be made to see whether or not it was due to technological failure, or if it was human error.
 
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An internal investigation should be made to see whether or not it was due to technological failure, or if it was human error.

Sure, that's what technologically advance countries do, but I doubt Cambodia is able to do it, maybe the Chinese, but it seems pretty clear that the pilot lost control because of a technical failure.
 
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