Calls for Bangladesh war trials

[mujahideen]

The bottome line is Biharis are our brothers, were our brother and always will be our brothers. Our doors are always open for them.
Afghanis are not our brother, they have given us nothing except trouble and it is time we close our doors to them.

 

[never]

the biharis were instrumental with the pakistan movement, they fought for pakistan in the east and consider themselves pakistanis. they wont be burdening their country like the rubbish from afghanistan.

 

[roadrunner]

the biharis were instrumental with the pakistan movement, they fought for pakistan in the east and consider themselves pakistanis. they wont be burdening their country like the rubbish from afghanistan.

How exactly were they instrumental? Do you have a link instead of posting unsubstantiated, linkless opinion? If so, provide one, so you can provide some weight behind your claims.

In case you missed my earlier posts, which have already answered what you're claiming, this is for your benefit.

• The Afghani refugees are supported by UN funding, not by the Pakistani government, and they intend to go back, as per the president of SHARP, once the war is over. The Biharis seek citizenship in Pakistan. They are two different situations. Afghanis = temporary, Biharis = permanent.
  
  
• Can you name one other country where people are rewarded on a mass scale for supporting one government? Were the Morrocans all awarded French citizenship automatically whenever they wanted, because they fought for France in the second world war? They weren't so why should the Biharis be rewarded with citizenship in Pakistan when they had chosen Bengal over the West anyway?
  
  
• Leading on from the previous point, why do you think the Biharis chose Bengal over West Pakistan? Because it was a closer ethnic mix of people to them, than was West Pakistan. There goes the ridiculous theory of Biharis being ethnically more Pakistani than Pakistanis themselves!
  
  
• Pakistan has already taken its quota of Biharis. Why should anyone who considers themselves as a Pakistani be given Pakistani citizenship. There's hundreds of millions of Indian Muslims who would also probably accept such a deal, but only so much land and so many resources in Pakistan. So the line must be drawn, and Pakistan has taken its agreed amount of Bihari (now Pakistani) citizens.
  

Try thinking rationally, not enotionally.

 

[salman nedian]

Biharis that have never stepped foot on Pakistani soil do not have more rights to Pakistani lands, than those who are already Pakistani nationals! It's like saying that Ugandan nationals (or Indian citizens, or Pakistanis in Lahore) have more rights to UK's land than anglo people because they fought patriotically for the British Empire.

As for who was instrumental in forming Pakistan, I think political credibility for the nation of Pakistan goes to those who put forward the idea to Mountbatten, one could say Jinnah (whose immediate ancestry is from Kathiwar, India) was the most instrumental in Pakistan's formation. Does this mean Indians have more rights to Pakistan's lands than the Pakistani nationals? It's difficult to imagine so. Pakistani people deserve more credit for Pakistan's formation and present day status.

You are mixing it up!

It is a simple thing that before 1971 Bangladesh was Pakistan and Biharis migrated there after partition means they migrated to 'Pakistan'. Then they fought with Mukti Bahinis and Indian army to save Pakistan. When did Afghanis fight for Pakistan?

It’s not about people of not present day Pakistan’s origin. The thing is how much we feel for the people who fought for Pakistan and if any one doesn’t care about them this means he never knew the ideology of Pakistan.
Pakistan invested 20 years in Afghan war and what is the result? Think yourself.

 

[salman nedian]

[*]Leading on from the previous point, why do you think the Biharis chose Bengal over West Pakistan? Because it was a closer ethnic mix of people to them, than was West Pakistan. There goes the ridiculous theory of Biharis being ethnically more Pakistani than Pakistanis themselves!

Biharis choose Bengal because it was near to Bihar. With all the bloodshed across India do you think that they should have taken the longer route and killed by Hindus? At that time there was no Bangladesh so they migrated to “East Pakistan”.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Precisely.

That is the reason.

The Biharis joined Pakistan and not any other country,

Biharis have no commonality with Bengalis. In fact, they either spoke Bojpuri/Maithili/Urdu.

 

[salman nedian]

At the same time we should also strengthen our relations with Bengalis since they are also our people but they are angry because of misunderstandings and foreign propaganda.

 

[Malang]

At the same time we should also strengthen our relations with Bengalis since they are also our people

aren't all Humans or you narrow yourself to Muslims of Unpartitioned India?

but they are angry because of misunderstandings and foreign propaganda.

Could you give examples of foreign propaganda?
offtopic/
everyone in Pak from Ministers to common folk talk of foreign powers, foreign propaganda, threaten to destabilise .. Cold War is over isn't it?

 

[salman nedian]

aren't all Humans or you narrow yourself to Muslims of Unpartitioned India?

All Muslims of the world are brothers and if non-Muslims accept Islam they too. But this doesn’t mean that we should kill others Islam teaches tolerance.

Could you give examples of foreign propaganda?
offtopic/
everyone in Pak from Ministers to common folk talk of foreign powers, foreign propaganda, threaten to destabilise .. Cold War is over isn't it?

That foolish and insane “3 Million dead Bengalis” figure is an example of foreign propaganda.

 

[Malang]

All Muslims of the world are brothers and if non-Muslims accept Islam they too. But this doesn’t mean that we should kill others Islam teaches tolerance.

why restrict yourself to only treating Muslims as your brothers when God treats all as his children(if he exists and if he is described as being unbiased)? Surely you must emulate some actions of the most merciful (and unbiased)?

That foolish and insane “3 Million dead Bengalis” figure is an example of foreign propaganda.

well if I am not mistaken Pak believes 26000 died and if I am again not mistaken the Bangla govt itself believes 3million were killed.
So is Bangla govt estimate also foreign propaganda? and how come Pak and Bangla estimates have a 150x variation?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

everyone in Pak from Ministers to common folk talk of foreign powers, foreign propaganda, threaten to destabilise .. Cold War is over isn't it?

Not so different from everyone in India talking about the ISI propoganda, ISI destabilizing India etc.

Can't have it both ways you know.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

well if I am not mistaken Pak believes 26000 died and if I am again not mistaken the Bangla govt itself believes 3million were killed.
So is Bangla govt estimate also foreign propaganda? and how come Pak and Bangla estimates have a 150x variation?

Ask the Bengalis why there is the variation - we think its "propoganda".

There is a thread in the history section (perhaps a couple) that attempts to argue the Pakistani position, on why the 3 million figure is not true.

The link: http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-military-history/8639-disproving-some-genocide-claims.html

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

i was debating with someone that the pak soldiers took no part in the rape of hindu bengali women and that there were patriotic bengali's that formed the majority of the razakaars. these people are ruling bangladesh today and they still haven't been brought to trial, I wonder why bengali people blame us?

 

[roadrunner]

You are mixing it up!

It is a simple thing that before 1971 Bangladesh was Pakistan and Biharis migrated there after partition means they migrated to 'Pakistan'.

Thanks for the history lesson, I didnt know that

They migrated to Pakistan, but chose Bengal, not West Pakistan, was my point. The could have migrated to West Pakistan, if they wanted to, but decided on Bengal, because they (Biharis) are closer ethnically to Bengalis (as is obvious from any map).

Then they fought with Mukti Bahinis and Indian army to save Pakistan.

I agree, where did I disagree with this? However I do think that Pakistan doesn't need to take these extra Biharis, since it's already taken its quota of Biharis, and given them full citizenship rights, plus no other country in the world gives people citizenship on the basis they fought for their cause. The French didn't for the Morrocans are one example. They took some in though, but not every Morrocan that wants to come in. Pakistan should (and is) following the same model. I think where I differ with you is that these extra Biharis should be exchanged for Bengalis. I see it as very justifiable, since Bangladesh holds them in concentration camps denying them citizenship even though the war is over, so if the Bengalis are deported from Pakistan, Bangladesh will give them full citizenship in Bangladesh, the Biharis can have ful citizenship in Pakistan, that would solve all the problems, and there would be no change in the demographics of Pakistan.

When did Afghanis fight for Pakistan?

Third Battle of Panipat to stop the Maratha advance towards the Indus Valley.

It’s not about people of not present day Pakistan’s origin. The thing is how much we feel for the people who fought for Pakistan and if any one doesn’t care about them this means he never knew the ideology of Pakistan.
Pakistan invested 20 years in Afghan war and what is the result? Think yourself.

The Afghan war was fought by Pakistan for the interests of Pakistan. Stop thinking so unilaterally. Pakistan entered the Afghan-Soviet war for its own interests, not those of the Afghans. The Soviets wanted to advance into Balochistan, plus destroy American bases in Pakistan. Pakistan helped the Afghanis because it was next in line for the Soviets. An Afghani could argue they fought the war to save Afghanistan and Pakistan, a Pakistani could argue they helped Afghanistan gain its independence from the Soviets. Reality is somewhere in the middle, both countries acted in their own interests. Anyway, Pakistan was more of a conduit for American supplies into Afghanistan, rather than expending men for battle (the human toll was mainly on the Afghanis), though it's possible the some Pakistani forces had a role in some battles (like the hilltop one with 9th company). Personally, I feel Afghanistan would have been better off under the Soviets though.

 

[roadrunner]

Biharis choose Bengal because it was near to Bihar.

Precisely my point. They chose Bengal because they are closer to Bengalis, than to West Pakistanis.

With all the bloodshed across India do you think that they should have taken the longer route and killed by Hindus? At that time there was no Bangladesh so they migrated to “East Pakistan”.

People from South India could make it to West Pakistan. If they could, why could the Biharis not make it to West Pakistan?