Cabinet orders removal of Mohsin Dawar, Ali Wazir's names from ECL

[El Sidd]

His fight was against the oppressors, imperialists, and their agents. He knew how to use a pen, and he knew how to use a machine gun ... He was a rebel, a militant, but not a terrorist ...

Hide behind The Burning Bush? what are you trying to say, troll?

No one is doubting your Instinct to exaggerate and glorify the fight where you have No Party to play.

 

[M. Sarmad]

No one is doubting your Instinct to exaggerate and glorify the fight where you have No Party to play.

And no one is doubting your remarkably useless talent of churning out utterly pointless one-liners at exceptionally high speeds while contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion, troll....

Almost 30,000 posts in one and a half year !!? That is more than 2 posts every hour for 24 hours a day and 7 days a week (not taking into account your frequent bans) ... You are a living legend...

 

[El Sidd]

And no one is doubting your remarkably useless talent of churning out utterly pointless one-liners at exceptionally high speeds while contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion, troll....

Almost 30,000 posts in one and a half year !!? That is more than 2 posts every hour for 24 hours a day and 7 days a week (not taking into account your frequent bans) ... You are a living legend...

No need to make a cult out of me now Sirmed

 

[M. Sarmad]

No need to make a cult out of me now Sirmed

laughing stock*, troll

 

[El Sidd]

laughing stock*, troll

Yes Sirmed

 

[Joe Shearer]

Anyone who kills innocent people for political purposes, on any pretext
Indian Army commits terrorism in Occupied Kashmir
TTP commits terrorism in Pakistan

The Indian Army does not kill innocent people. It kills arms-bearing militants, or their active supporters in the field, who intervene during gun battles.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The Indian Army does not kill innocent people. It kills arms-bearing militants, or their active supporters in the field, who intervene during gun battles.

Sir, you are just toeing the Indian official line. Ground realities are different.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir, you are just toeing the Indian official line. Ground realities are different.

1. I never toe the official line. Please verify this for yourself.
2. My appreciation of ground realities is based on personal information and experience. I visit Kashmir frequently (never been to Ladakh) and am still able to go around and meet my friends. Unfortunately, some of them are supporters of 'Azadi' (though not of the Hurriyat), so we tacitly avoid controversial topics when we meet. That does not preclude talking to all others.

This is just for your information. My last visit to Kashmir is some months ago; personal preoccupations, a worsening medical profile and financial pressures are constraints. And now it is too cold for me.

 

[M. Sarmad]

1. I never toe the official line. Please verify this for yourself.
2. My appreciation of ground realities is based on personal information and experience. I visit Kashmir frequently (never been to Ladakh) and am still able to go around and meet my friends. Unfortunately, some of them are supporters of 'Azadi' (though not of the Hurriyat), so we tacitly avoid controversial topics when we meet. That does not preclude talking to all others.

This is just for your information. My last visit to Kashmir is some months ago; personal preoccupations, a worsening medical profile and financial pressures are constraints. And now it is too cold for me.

Do you deny that the Indian soldiers have tried to counter the insurgency by ripping apart the social fabric of the separatist region through civilian killings, illegal detainment, mass rape, torture, solitary confinement, and various other forms of human rights violations? The idea is to demoralize and terrorise the entire community that supports insurgents.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Do you deny that the Indian soldiers have tried to counter the insurgency by ripping apart the social fabric of the separatist region through civilian killings, illegal detainment, mass rape, torture, solitary confinement, and various other forms of human rights violations? The idea is to demoralize and terrorise the entire community that supports insurgents.

1. Indian soldiers are not the people you wish to address. Neither the soldier nor his leadership decides to demoralise and terrorise the entire community that supports insurgents.
2. You mentioned a number of issues.
   1. Civilian killings: Civilians have died in crossfire, civilians have also been shot when they intervened in firefights, during the firing, in spite of warnings. How is that part of a policy to demoralise and terrorise the community?
   2. Illegal detentions: The military authorities do not detain citizens except for short periods of urgent need. Detainees are immediately turned over to the civilian authorities for action if action is required. There are severe restrictions on those authorities and their freedom to illegally detain citizens.
   3. Mass rape: This has never been a policy, and will never be a policy. There was one controversial case, that still causes disagreement about how it was treated, and there have been incidents, not widespread and not representative, that have been investigated and have been dealt with wherever this was necessary. This is a series of isolated incidents that have been tied together and misrepresented.
   4. Torture: There have unfortunately been cases where the civilian administration, the state police, have used third degree methods during interrogation and detention of individuals. This was nothing to do with the Indian Army.
   5. Solitary confinement: Neither has been reported. This seems to be an accidental afterthought.
3. Much of what is flowing around and has been reported is due to the active efforts of those who find their occupation and livelihood in the economy of political resistance.

 

[war&peace]

@django, sir ..?

 

[M. Sarmad]

1. Indian soldiers are not the people you wish to address. Neither the soldier nor his leadership decides to demoralise and terrorise the entire community that supports insurgents.
2. You mentioned a number of issues.
   1. Civilian killings: Civilians have died in crossfire, civilians have also been shot when they intervened in firefights, during the firing, in spite of warnings. How is that part of a policy to demoralise and terrorise the community?
   2. Illegal detentions: The military authorities do not detain citizens except for short periods of urgent need. Detainees are immediately turned over to the civilian authorities for action if action is required. There are severe restrictions on those authorities and their freedom to illegally detain citizens.
   3. Mass rape: This has never been a policy, and will never be a policy. There was one controversial case, that still causes disagreement about how it was treated, and there have been incidents, not widespread and not representative, that have been investigated and have been dealt with wherever this was necessary. This is a series of isolated incidents that have been tied together and misrepresented.
   4. Torture: There have unfortunately been cases where the civilian administration, the state police, have used third degree methods during interrogation and detention of individuals. This was nothing to do with the Indian Army.
   5. Solitary confinement: Neither has been reported. This seems to be an accidental afterthought.
3. Much of what is flowing around and has been reported is due to the active efforts of those who find their occupation and livelihood in the economy of political resistance.

Again, you are just toeing the official Indian line, sir .. And I am sure you yourself also know very well that what you are saying is absolutely wrong ... Anyway, I will post a new thread shortly with details of human right abuses (civilian killings, illegal detainment, mass rape, torture, solitary confinement, and various other forms of human rights violations) carried out by IA in occupied Kashmir since 1989, and ask the mods to make it sticky.... Regards

 

[Joe Shearer]

Again, you are just toeing the official Indian line, sir .. And I am sure you yourself also know very well that what you are saying is absolutely wrong ... Anyway, I will post a new thread shortly with details of human right abuses (civilian killings, illegal detainment, mass rape, torture, solitary confinement, and various other forms of human rights violations) carried out by IA in occupied Kashmir since 1989, and ask the mods to make it sticky.... Regards

I repeat: I have never toed the official Indian line. I would not have written what I did unless I firmly believed in it.

Indian Kashmir is a pathological obsession with Pakistanis; it is just that it is saddening to see you too have fallen prey to this national obsession. I am far from the position that all is being done well there, but also have the live relationship with people from there that allows me to challenge the more widely-sweeping statements that are made from time to time.

 

[Amaa'n]

Senate committee agrees to keep their name on Provisional list till explaination is given by FIA and due process is followed to put them on ECL, and the very next day Cabinet meeting orders for removal of their names, i mean wtf....

 

[M. Sarmad]

I repeat: I have never toed the official Indian line. I would not have written what I did unless I firmly believed in it.

Indian Kashmir is a pathological obsession with Pakistanis; it is just that it is saddening to see you too have fallen prey to this national obsession. I am far from the position that all is being done well there, but also have the live relationship with people from there that allows me to challenge the more widely-sweeping statements that are made from time to time.

On Kashmir, you sure do toe the Indian official line, on other matters, maybe you don't

And there is nothing as Indian Kashmir ... It's Indian Occupied Kashmir.

We have cultural, religious, lingual, geographical, social and blood bonds with Kashmiris ... It's you guys who have a pathological obsession with Kashmir (and Pakistan) despite not having anything in common with the people of the valley.

Kashmiris don't want to identify themselves as Indians. They have a right to self-determination fully protected under UN Resolutions and International law. You cannot take away from them what is legitimately theirs. What most of the Indians fail to realize is that forcing people to be a part of your "nation" against their will is a mockery of the idea of Nation.

As for your live relations in Kashmir, you yourself have said that you avoid discussing controversial topics with those Kashmiri friends who support Azadi, so, your argument falls flat.

And as for you denying civilian killings, mass rape and other human rights violations by IA in Occupied Kashmir, there are hundreds of reports by neutral reputed international as well as local Kashmiri organizations out there detailing those atrocities, which I will post shortly. You, of course, are free to continue living in your denial, distortion and delusion.